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Old 2012-10-26, 05:45   Link #24341
ganbaru
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
Exclusive: Iran's coal shipping trade booms despite Western heat
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...89P08H20121026
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Old 2012-10-26, 09:42   Link #24342
RRW
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Silvio Berlusconi sentenced to four years in jail for tax fraud

Quote:
Former Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has been sentenced to 4 years in jail following a tax fraud trial.

An Italian court delivered verdicts today against the former Prime Minister and others in a six-year-old tax fraud trial.

Prosecutors in the case had demanded that Berlusconi be given a sentence of 3 years and eight months, along with a sentence for Fedele Confalonieri - the chairman of his Mediaset conglomerate - of three years and four months.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...d-8228441.html
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Old 2012-10-26, 11:09   Link #24343
SeijiSensei
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Quote:
It is believed that Mr Berlusconi will appeal against the ruling. Cases in Italy must pass two levels of appeal before the verdicts are final.
I suspect it will be quite a while, if ever, before Signor Berlusconi will have to schedule bunga-bunga parties from his prison cell.
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Old 2012-10-26, 12:33   Link #24344
sa547
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Age: 38
May I add this?
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...-for-tax-fraud
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Old 2012-10-26, 14:02   Link #24345
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seijisensei View Post
i suspect it will be quite a while, if ever, before signor berlusconi will have to schedule bunga-bunga parties from his prison cell.
bring lolis and shotas and invite the vatican. :d
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2012-10-26, 18:18   Link #24346
ganbaru
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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A year after Irene, US prepares for superstorm
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...10-26-18-45-19
Let's hope than it didn't turn into another Katrina.
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Old 2012-10-26, 18:46   Link #24347
Vexx
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
A year after Irene, US prepares for superstorm
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...10-26-18-45-19
Let's hope than it didn't turn into another Katrina.
Nope, no chaos theory here, no phasespace regions of instability.
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Old 2012-10-26, 20:47   Link #24348
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Nope, no chaos theory here, no phasespace regions of instability.
Then get your colleagues to stop testing that black matter generator - it is not only sucking in physical mass it is also sucking away the general intelligence of the population as well.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2012-10-26, 20:53   Link #24349
Ithekro
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I've never understood why people that live in states that get repeatedly hit by Hurricanes or tornados are so afraid of Earthquakes. Sure they are usually unpredictable, but at least they don't torment you by having seasons for them, or coming in for several days threatening to wipe out your entire region.

And earthquake? Lasts maybe a minute? If your buildingd are built well enough there will be relatively little damage, and things will return to normal. Only the relatively rare quakes break everything or cause secondary events that destroy everything (large fires, tsunami and the like).
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Old 2012-10-26, 21:05   Link #24350
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
I've never understood why people that live in states that get repeatedly hit by Hurricanes or tornados are so afraid of Earthquakes. Sure they are usually unpredictable, but at least they don't torment you by having seasons for them, or coming in for several days threatening to wipe out your entire region.

And earthquake? Lasts maybe a minute? If your buildingd are built well enough there will be relatively little damage, and things will return to normal. Only the relatively rare quakes break everything or cause secondary events that destroy everything (large fires, tsunami and the like).
I've lived in both regions. The only thing I can offer is you can see the tiger coming instead of the ambush in the dark?

Personally, the earthquakes are done faster and we can have the post-apocalypse landscape and roving gangs in a drier scenario
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Old 2012-10-26, 22:54   Link #24351
AnimeFan188
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Join Date: Jan 2008
U.S. Expands Secretive Drone Base for African Shadow War:

"The Pentagon’s secretive drone and commando base in the Horn of Africa is
getting a lot bigger and a lot busier as the U.S. doubles down on its shadowy
campaign of air strikes, robot surveillance and Special Operation Forces raids in
the terror havens of Yemen and Somalia.

Camp Lemonnier, originally a French colonial outpost in Djibouti, a tiny,
impoverished nation just north of Somalia, has been the epicenter of America’s
Indian Ocean shadow war since just after 9/11. What was once little more than a
run-down compound adjacent to Djibouti city’s single-runway international airport
is now a sprawling complex of hangars and air-conditioned buildings housing
eight Predator drones and eight F-15E fighter-bombers plus other warplanes, as
well as around 300 Special Operations Forces and more than 2,000 other U.S.
troops and civilians.

According to an investigation by The Washington Post, the Pentagon is spending
$1.4 billion to expand the base’s airplane parking and living facilities. The extra
housing could accommodate another 800 commandos, the Post reports. The
military is also adding new lighting to a emergency landing strip a few miles from
Camp Lemonnier — an urgent precaution as more and more planes and drones
pack onto the main base’s sole runway."

See:

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012...et-drone-base/
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Old 2012-10-26, 23:57   Link #24352
SaintessHeart
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800 commandos + 300 original commandos = 1100 commandos.

That would be around half the size of the entire ST6 if I am not wrong. Where do they train so many spec op troopers?
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2012-10-27, 03:51   Link #24353
Jinto
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fürth (GER)
Age: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
800 commandos + 300 original commandos = 1100 commandos.

That would be around half the size of the entire ST6 if I am not wrong. Where do they train so many spec op troopers?
I suppose specialized forces is the better term here. It covers more areas of speciallized forces of all the three branches (air force, army, navy/USMC). However, technically such a base can accomodate just any kind of troops.

In this aspect the article is simply giving an example. I seriously doubt the author of the article has the insider knowledge to actually know which type of troops will be stationed in the extra housing.
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Old 2012-10-27, 04:00   Link #24354
kyp275
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnimeFan188 View Post
U.S. Expands Secretive Drone Base for African Shadow War:

"The Pentagon’s secretive drone and commando base in the Horn of Africa is
getting a lot bigger and a lot busier as the U.S. doubles down on its shadowy
campaign of air strikes, robot surveillance and Special Operation Forces raids in
the terror havens of Yemen and Somalia.

Camp Lemonnier, originally a French colonial outpost in Djibouti, a tiny,
impoverished nation just north of Somalia, has been the epicenter of America’s
Indian Ocean shadow war since just after 9/11. What was once little more than a
run-down compound adjacent to Djibouti city’s single-runway international airport
is now a sprawling complex of hangars and air-conditioned buildings housing
eight Predator drones and eight F-15E fighter-bombers plus other warplanes, as
well as around 300 Special Operations Forces and more than 2,000 other U.S.
troops and civilians.

According to an investigation by The Washington Post, the Pentagon is spending
$1.4 billion to expand the base’s airplane parking and living facilities. The extra
housing could accommodate another 800 commandos, the Post reports. The
military is also adding new lighting to a emergency landing strip a few miles from
Camp Lemonnier — an urgent precaution as more and more planes and drones
pack onto the main base’s sole runway."
Good lord, they're expanding Camp Lemonnier AGAIN? which direction are they gonna expand to? lol

I pity the ppl who have to live in the expanded area, it's gonna be one long-ass walk just to get to the chow hall, and, well, just about everywhere...
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Old 2012-10-27, 04:09   Link #24355
KiraYamatoFan
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Montreal, QC, Canada
Age: 31
Funny. I always thought the central nerve of all Middle East operations, especially special operations, for US Forces was at Al-Udeid Air Base, also known as SOCCENT-FWD, in the outskirts of Doha, Qatar.
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Old 2012-10-27, 04:38   Link #24356
SaintessHeart
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinto View Post
I suppose specialized forces is the better term here. It covers more areas of speciallized forces of all the three branches (air force, army, navy/USMC). However, technically such a base can accomodate just any kind of troops.

In this aspect the article is simply giving an example. I seriously doubt the author of the article has the insider knowledge to actually know which type of troops will be stationed in the extra housing.
US has a whole lot of those "Special Forces" units, each for a different purpose and theater. Unlike the one-unit designation of KSK of the Bundeswehr which performs the main backbone of covert special operations (with the Paratrooper Brigade performing the overt ones such as FOFO and raid-type assaults on FIBUA), US has 4 of those high end special forces units (Delta, ST6, 24STS & ISA) and another team dedicated to picking them up (Pararescue). The overt ones are usually done by Airborne, Rangers or Marines.

Given how sticky missions are in Somalia, they are probably relying on the covert forces, so most of the people there are probably Delta/ST6 or maybe SAD and probably a couple of companies of Ranger/Airborne for base defence and permanently taking positions, since most of the aircraft there are meant to be dropping weapons based on hidden targeters rather than providing air support (which are usually done by helicopters).
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2012-10-27, 05:44   Link #24357
Jinto
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fürth (GER)
Age: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
US has a whole lot of those "Special Forces" units, each for a different purpose and theater. Unlike the one-unit designation of KSK of the Bundeswehr which performs the main backbone of covert special operations (with the Paratrooper Brigade performing the overt ones such as FOFO and raid-type assaults on FIBUA), US has 4 of those high end special forces units (Delta, ST6, 24STS & ISA) and another team dedicated to picking them up (Pararescue). The overt ones are usually done by Airborne, Rangers or Marines.
Well, technically, if you were dealing with pirates you might want to have a good mix of everything. But what I wanted to hint at is that for example the Navy SEALs are certainly specialized forces, but only the DEVGRU (SEAL Team 6 does not exist anymore) is in my oppinion the elite (aka commando) unit of the Navy SEALs.
Furthermore the article talked about the expansion of the drones. Now, what you will definitly need for drone operation is a specialized force that can operate and maintain such drones (e.g. units from the AFSOC or ACC). However, I would not consider such units a commando unit.
Hence, the term specialized forces is less restricting for all 3 branches (especially air force).

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Given how sticky missions are in Somalia, they are probably relying on the covert forces, so most of the people there are probably Delta/ST6 or maybe SAD and probably a couple of companies of Ranger/Airborne for base defence and permanently taking positions, since most of the aircraft there are meant to be dropping weapons based on hidden targeters rather than providing air support (which are usually done by helicopters).
Honestly, if I wanted to minimize the risk, I would increase the number of drone operations way more than actual covert operations that require commando units to be in remote locations where it is difficult to send back up.
In the case of very highly important targets the risk of using commando units might be worth it though (e.g. Osama).
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Old 2012-10-27, 06:04   Link #24358
SaintessHeart
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinto View Post
Well, technically, if you were dealing with pirates you might want to have a good mix of everything. But what I wanted to hint at is that for example the Navy SEALs are certainly specialized forces, but only the DEVGRU (SEAL Team 6 does not exist anymore) is in my oppinion the elite (aka commando) unit of the Navy SEALs.
I don't think they are simply fighting pirates anymore. Usually they don't send such high-end forces against pirates; that would be a job for the regular boarding parties on the ships; and they would only call in the troopers if the boarding parties are forced to evacuate or captured (which could be more common since they aren't extensively trained in tactics like the Dozier Drill).

Maybe they have a different doctrine outside the less deep waters of SEA.

Quote:
Furthermore the article talked about the expansion of the drones. Now, what you will definitly need for drone operation is a specialized force that can operate and maintain such drones (e.g. units from the AFSOC or ACC). However, I would not consider such units a commando unit.
Hence, the term specialized forces is less restricting for all 3 branches (especially air force).
Drones are not as useful as having a human team on the ground; more often than not a LRRP (Long Range Recon Patrol) team with SRR (Short Range Recon - basically crawl up to the sentry and taking photos while he is looking away) specialists can acquire more intel than a simple drone.

The article talked about specifically adding commandos, but a 200% surge sounds a little atrocious for a military wanting to keep a low profile.

Quote:
Honestly, if I wanted to minimize the risk, I would increase the number of drone operations way more than actual covert operations that require commando units to be in remote locations where it is difficult to send back up.
In the case of very highly important targets the risk of using commando units might be worth it though (e.g. Osama).
On non-lethal missions (rescue or intel), commandos don't need as much backup other than that evacuation because their profile isn't to blow as many things up as they can. Smaller teams to infiltrate and secure whatever they need are enough - slip-in-slip-out is the key.

That is what SERE training is for. Though it would be interesting to note what jungle can they live off in Africa.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2012-10-27, 06:35   Link #24359
Jinto
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Fürth (GER)
Age: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
I don't think they are simply fighting pirates anymore. Usually they don't send such high-end forces against pirates; that would be a job for the regular boarding parties on the ships; and they would only call in the troopers if the boarding parties are forced to evacuate or captured (which could be more common since they aren't extensively trained in tactics like the Dozier Drill).
...
Imo, if you want to fight the root cause of piracy you have to fight it on land.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Drones are not as useful as having a human team on the ground; more often than not a LRRP (Long Range Recon Patrol) team with SRR (Short Range Recon - basically crawl up to the sentry and taking photos while he is looking away) specialists can acquire more intel than a simple drone.
That may be so. But you need to balance the risk involved and the gained intelligence. In certain cases, a higher ratio of "colateral damage" might be acceptable if the victims are just low profile enough or cannot defend their claim of innocence. In a region like Somalia it is easier to justify deaths (more importantly there is not much news coverage - because the whole region is just too instable).
I am not defending such an approach, but I can very well imagine why someone would operate like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
The article talked about specifically adding commandos, but a 200% surge sounds a little atrocious for a military wanting to keep a low profile.
Which is why I seriously doubt it to be actual commando units. Thats all I was trying to hint at. The article was only giving an example. It could host 800 more commando. That does not mean that author actually knows which units will be deployed there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
On non-lethal missions (rescue or intel), commandos don't need as much backup other than that evacuation because their profile isn't to blow as many things up as they can. Smaller teams to infiltrate and secure whatever they need are enough - slip-in-slip-out is the key.

That is what SERE training is for. Though it would be interesting to note what jungle can they live off in Africa.
Somalia is a desert region, you cannot easily hide in a desert. I am aware what those units are capable of. And I do not think the most important issue in Somalia is warfare intelligence. If we were talking about espionage and undercover operations than the CIA would be a better choice (Now I don't know about the internal structuring of MENA but I don't think there is a unit that could be called a commando unit either).

The best usage for the commando units would be the freeing of hostages and the elimination of highly important targets. Which is certainly needed in the region, but not in these numbers.
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Old 2012-10-27, 07:15   Link #24360
kyp275
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
US has a whole lot of those "Special Forces" units, each for a different purpose and theater. Unlike the one-unit designation of KSK of the Bundeswehr which performs the main backbone of covert special operations (with the Paratrooper Brigade performing the overt ones such as FOFO and raid-type assaults on FIBUA), US has 4 of those high end special forces units (Delta, ST6, 24STS & ISA) and another team dedicated to picking them up (Pararescue). The overt ones are usually done by Airborne, Rangers or Marines.

Given how sticky missions are in Somalia, they are probably relying on the covert forces, so most of the people there are probably Delta/ST6 or maybe SAD and probably a couple of companies of Ranger/Airborne for base defence and permanently taking positions, since most of the aircraft there are meant to be dropping weapons based on hidden targeters rather than providing air support (which are usually done by helicopters).
TBH, the article was over sensationalizing things, no surprise there.

Camp Lemonnier isn't some secret socom base, it just happens to be the only base the US have in Africa. There are actually a rather heavy presence of third-party and local nationals working on-base, with frequent traffics of British and German (even some S.Korean) troops that goes through on a daily basis.

And no, there is certainly no "couples of companies of Ranger/Airborne" running base defense - It used to be the Marines, as Camp Lemonnier was originally designated as a naval base (never knew why, as it's nowhere near the actual dock), but it has since been changed to an Army base, so army units would be the ones providing security. During the changeover (I was part of the last Marine security force), it was just some artillery unit that was rotated in for a few months as the end segment of their deployment.

I mean, what kind of "shadowy" base have literally hundreds of locals coming in and out every day to work on base, where the base personnel (especially the army and the officers ) goes off base every night downtown to party and get drunk? >_>
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