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View Poll Results: Shin Sekai Yori - Episode 5 Rating
Perfect 10 10 13.51%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 20 27.03%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 14 18.92%
7 out of 10 : Good 15 20.27%
6 out of 10 : Average 6 8.11%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 6 8.11%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 2.70%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 1.35%
Voters: 74. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-10-28, 22:34   Link #141
Flower
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Originally Posted by Dawnstorm View Post
...The way I saw the scene, they thought they saw a hole, and Satoru tried to widen it, but he found no hole to widen, only a bioluminiscent substance (most likely, microorganisms, or fungi). No escape.
Agreed - this was my impression as well.
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Old 2012-10-28, 22:45   Link #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
Couldn't agree more. Though to be fair, this happens with virtually every adaptation, you're always gonna have some people who'd whine at every little detail that's not the same as the original material. It's as if they don't understand how adaptation works, different medium, diff. market, stuff are going to get changed, deal with it.
It's not a matter of medium, but target audience... I agree that the source material can be transformed into a family-friendly parade, when stripped of its essential topics to fuel SF-like discussions over trivial matters.

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Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
That said, the ones in this forum is more obnoxious than most,
I always found that the people disagreeing with me not obnoxious, but interesting... then again, I guess that's because I want to learn from people who have opposing views, instead of insult them

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Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
I've almost given up on checking these threads because inevitably they always devolve into complaints about the anime didn't show so and so giving a blowjob to this dude and whatnot.
That's trivial, and convenient for all whiners... the anime need not to be graphic or explicit, as long as it clearly implied (and not showed) the reason for easing Satoru's stress... I really don't understand why people freak out about such things... I (as most of you) definitely don't want to see a blowjob, handjob, or whatever... BUT! I want to watch a consistent story and setting, as long as it abides to the original theme and mood... now if the anime's production stuff is not up for the challenge (transcending the medium and its requirements), maybe they should have chosen another novel/manga/whatever to adapt.

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Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
as if they can show that on a friggin over the air broadcast
For me, the bottom-line is that both the anime and the manga do not treat their source with respect, one focusing on man-children, while the other on fappers... now whether one is willing to accept the criticism on inconsistencies within each medium, or prefers to stay in his/her own fantasy world is another matter.

Let's not forget that the anime from ep.4 to ep.5, not only f*cked up its visual aspect, but ignored the story it presented, in favor of political correctness.

PS: Please don't point me neither as an advocate of ecchi, nor as a supporter of 1-1 adaption, because if you look into my posts from the last 8 years, you will see that independent of what mods try to push as a verdict, I try to voice an unbiased options, suffering the consequences.
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Old 2012-10-28, 23:02   Link #143
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I don't think there is any artistic value or heavier weight of message by showing more revealing scenes in the episode. Actually, this more subtle and soft handed approach adds to its artistic worth in my eyes. It's too easy to throw a couple of explicit scenes, violent or sexual, to get a point across. It takes more skill to actually evoke the feelings more naturally without being overly overt. This is what Shinsekai Yori has done amazingly well so far IMO.
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Old 2012-10-29, 06:44   Link #144
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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
It's not a matter of medium, but target audience... I agree that the source material can be transformed into a family-friendly parade, when stripped of its essential topics to fuel SF-like discussions over trivial matters.
There will ALWAYS be changes necessary when adapting a written work to an visual/audio format, especially when dealing with lengthy materials. Stuff are changed all the time for one reason or another. Like I said, deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
I always found that the people disagreeing with me not obnoxious, but interesting... then again, I guess that's because I want to learn from people who have opposing views, instead of insult them
Until they kept bringing the same old tired stuff up again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again...

THAT is why it's obnoxious.

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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
That's trivial, and convenient for all whiners... the anime need not to be graphic or explicit, as long as it clearly implied (and not showed) the reason for easing Satoru's stress... I really don't understand why people freak out about such things... I (as most of you) definitely don't want to see a blowjob, handjob, or whatever... BUT! I want to watch a consistent story and setting, as long as it abides to the original theme and mood... now if the anime's production stuff is not up for the challenge (transcending the medium and its requirements), maybe they should have chosen another novel/manga/whatever to adapt.


For me, the bottom-line is that both the anime and the manga do not treat their source with respect
Yet you completely ignore reality. Fact of the matter is, why don't YOU go try to broadcast something OVER THE AIR that depicts (or even imply) TWELVE YEAR OLDS HAVING SEX, and see how far you get.

You can go on and on forever about the consistent story setting to the original material all you want, won't change that big fat Denied stamp on your proposal.

and frankly, the only ones that have been freaking out are the people who kept complaining that they "toned down" the scene, as if that's some major revelation that changed the entire story.

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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
Let's not forget that the anime from ep.4 to ep.5, not only f*cked up its visual aspect, but ignored the story it presented, in favor of political correctness.
episode 5 has a lot of problems, the least of which is the lack of kiddy sex.

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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
PS: Please don't point me neither as an advocate of ecchi, nor as a supporter of 1-1 adaption, because if you look into my posts from the last 8 years, you will see that independent of what mods try to push as a verdict, I try to voice an unbiased options, suffering the consequences.
You are however, seemingly ignorant of the reality on the ground. The kind of demands you're making simply isn't reasonable.
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Old 2012-10-29, 07:31   Link #145
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We're talking here about physical sex right? Whether it be shown or not? I don't see the point why it should be argued.

What should be argued is whether whats being said during "the scene" makes sense or not. I mean... the line that says " sex between, immature, same sex etc.." is worth debatable than the actual sex....

I think the sex isn't needed during that scene IMO.... Imagine, inside a cage.... doing it.. where the guard could be watching... woah!!!
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Old 2012-10-29, 15:23   Link #146
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
We're talking here about physical sex right? Whether it be shown or not? I don't see the point why it should be argued.

What should be argued is whether whats being said during "the scene" makes sense or not. I mean... the line that says " sex between, immature, same sex etc.." is worth debatable than the actual sex....

I think the sex isn't needed during that scene IMO.... Imagine, inside a cage.... doing it.. where the guard could be watching... woah!!!
I think the consensus on the issue is that sex is hardly ever absolutely necessary but telling a coherent story is. The From The New World anime is not supposed to be a suplement to the novel. It should be able to provide a coherent narative on it's own and I'd be saddend to see it do anything other than that.
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Old 2012-10-29, 20:40   Link #147
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The thing is, most people here thought the not-sex scene was coherent until people started making comparisons to what happened in the novel.
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Old 2012-10-29, 21:07   Link #148
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Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
The thing is, most people here thought the not-sex scene was coherent until people started making comparisons to what happened in the novel.
I personally can care less about that my only issue in this episode was the god awful animation used.
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Old 2012-10-29, 22:01   Link #149
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Originally Posted by HosannaExcelsis View Post
It's just the idiosyncratic style of the episode director (Shigeyasu Yamauchi).
You, sir, are awesome. First thing I wondered when this episode started was "WTF why does this look like Casshern?!"

As much as I loved Casshern (and it might actually be in my overall top 10, if I had one), this episode just didn't fit. At all. Coming from 4 episodes of a calm, easy going pace (I was thinking "mushishi?") we're thrown quite a curve ball, and that's when they decide to top it off by totally breaking the visuals?!

I found it way too off-putting - I spent more time cringing at odd facial expressions, still-frames, poorly depicted bugrats and "hue-shifts" than actually following the story.

I hope this was a one time thing only...
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Old 2012-10-30, 08:03   Link #150
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Despite the very odd choice of animation direction and art change etc etc, I still found the episode to be enjoyable. I think they went far enough with the whole sex scene, they didnt need to go any further.

Surprised that at least one of the male leads turned into someone pretty bad ass so quickly, really looking forward to when they realise they can use their PK again.

best show of the season imo
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Old 2012-10-30, 09:32   Link #151
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@kyp275: Leaving the rude tone of some posts aside; the visual changes of the 5th episode are as bad as the character development. Independent of completely skipping the original character development and theme during this first arc (for understandable reasons), the anime does not offer any alternative reasoning for actions.

For example Satoru's sudden leadership, maturity, decisiveness, and most importantly calm and rational thought process are never explained. To a lesser extent the same applies to Saki in various scenes during the episode. Add to these the many logical inconsistencies, like the explosion, the queen, the colonies, the trans-species communication, the time and locations for events, etc.

These of course make sense, given novel knowledge, but the anime never offered its own alternative explanation. It's not a matter of preferring a more loyal adaption, but the inability of the anime to tell its own story coherently... and this is very problematic for the 5th episode, unlike the first four.
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Old 2012-10-30, 11:45   Link #152
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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
It's not a matter of preferring a more loyal adaption, but the inability of the anime to tell its own story coherently... and this is very problematic for the 5th episode, unlike the first four.
The way you are unhappy with it implies you think the anime will never get to it. For all we know, the very next episode may explain things. I understand that it's something that bothers people and they feel the need to critique it, but I'm not seeing much benefit of the doubt here. No willingness to give things time to work.

I'm often critical of adaptations that change things for seemingly no reason. For example Sora no Otoshimono made huge changes from the manga version. However I reserved much of my criticism until the end, because I really had no idea how the anime would play out. Sometimes changes make for a better final product, sometimes they don't.

With so much happening in five episodes, I'm not expecting many explanations immediately. Just look at episode four, and how many people did not like the "info dump". They wanted show, not tell. It's hard to please everyone.

I know many of us, myself and yourself included, have not read the novel. We may be spoiled on events (big ones), but not much of the details. We're relying on second hand information - the people who read the book telling us in cliffnotes about their interpretation of what happened or what scenes meant. This is precisely why I have been so critical of novel/manga discussion for this series. Except for a handful of people, no one else really knows what is going on or what will happen next. Their only point of reference is the anime, and they can only speak of that. And since this is a subforum about the anime, that is perfectly fine and expected.

All I'm saying is give it time. Five episodes really isn't much in a two cour series. Put your critique in the appropriate threads when we've hit episode 17 or 20 and you still don't like it.

On a personal note, I do sometimes lament how the relatively recent rise in translated (legal and illegal) novels and manga have put a dampening effect on anime discussion. So many people come to discuss anime now pre-armed with all sorts of spoilers and info, which reduces a lot of discussion about characters and plot events to "I wonder how it will compare to what I already know from the novel/manga".

It's not something that can be escaped, but attempts to mitigate it are difficult since many people who are already spoiled have no interest in speculative debate, since they already know what will happen and they are more prone to dominate discussion with talk of what has changed between source and adaptation, and not what has happened in only the anime. A lot of the mystery and wonder has diminished in anime discussion as a result, and it makes discussing non-original anime very unappealing sometimes.

If people wonder about why anime discussion here and elsewhere has changed so much, I personally point to the widely translated source material and the industries reliance on adapting that material over original content as one of the big culprits.
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Old 2012-10-30, 12:58   Link #153
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Adapted content makes more money than original. That has to be the reason why anime is 90/10 in favor of adapted.

Sooo...there's an English version of Shinsekai Yori? What is it called? You'll have to forgive me for living under a rock.

I feel like the kids will get their powers back at some point (but I don't really know).

This is a very different kind of dystopia than you usually see. Everyone has superpowers! The horror! Also, all of the mutant creatures around and the absence of anything you could call high technology.
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Old 2012-10-30, 13:14   Link #154
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so the director changed only for this episode and it ll revert back in the next one? plz do, this episode confused the heck outta me
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Old 2012-10-30, 13:42   Link #155
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Originally Posted by halibonga View Post
so the director changed only for this episode and it ll revert back in the next one? plz do, this episode confused the heck outta me
every episode has its director, this one was just given more space. however he will not direct other episodes.

there was a rumor about iso directing next episode, is it confirmed?
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Old 2012-10-30, 16:25   Link #156
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Originally Posted by jcdietz03 View Post
Adapted content makes more money than original.
This is admittedly a very tangental issue, but your statement isn't really accurate, and hence I feel compelled to respond to it.

The last two calender years of anime has produced plenty of big hits amongst anime originals. These include Madoka Magica, AnoHana, Hanasaku Iroha, Tari Tari, Guilty Crown, and Tiger and Bunny. Madoka Magica was the best selling TV series anime of 2011. Mawaru Penguin Drum and Rinne no Lagrange were also anime originals, and IIRC, they sold reasonably well but weren't hits.

No, the anime industry doesn't largely avoid original content because original content doesn't sell, as many anime originals do sell. I think that they're largely avoided because there's fewer clients for it. To a certain extent, animation companies are contractors, who are hired by companies holding game, manga, and/or LN properties, when these companies would like to get a promotional animated show for their properties.

Anime originals generally only happen when an animation studio decides it wants to do something to get the studio itself noticed, or when a parent company/TV station wants a particular type of show, or if it simply has a creative vision that it wants to explore. This doesn't happen every day, but thankfully it happens frequently enough that we at least get a few anime original shows per year.


As for Malkuth's most recent post... I admit that the transition from "The Five Friends" to "The Saki and Satoru Show" probably could have been done better (it doesn't help that the audience has to adjust to this narrative transition at the very same time that a major visual transition is thrown at us; it makes it so it almost feels like you're watching a different show). At this point, I have to admit that the Saki/Shun moments feel like a red herring. Now, this sort of misdirection can make a show feel nicely unpredictable, but it has to be executed pretty smoothly to work well, and I'm not sure if it was here.

Nonetheless, the narrative isn't hard to follow at an intellectual level. I mean, it's not like the plot has lost me or anything. It's just a bit jarring/surprising at a sort of metalevel.
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Old 2012-10-30, 20:43   Link #157
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Cool, we returned to polite posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
The way you are unhappy with it implies you think the anime will never get to it. For all we know, the very next episode may explain things. I understand that it's something that bothers people and they feel the need to critique it, but I'm not seeing much benefit of the doubt here. No willingness to give things time to work.
Look we are discussing this episode here, not the whole anime, so in this episode (and compared to the previous four, but not the next twenty) most self-contained events were not properly presented (both visually and from a storytelling perspective) and the characters' behavior contradicted the previous four episodes (which was my original problem that led to many misunderstanding here ).

I see that we can agree to the above, but are hopeful that the anime writer will come up with some sort of explanation in the next 3-5 episodes, and counting on a better director to overcome the censored novel content... I am not that hopeful though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
I'm often critical of adaptations that change things for seemingly no reason. For example Sora no Otoshimono made huge changes from the manga version. However I reserved much of my criticism until the end, because I really had no idea how the anime would play out. Sometimes changes make for a better final product, sometimes they don't.
I can not talk about Sora no Otoshimono, since I did not find the anime and its source's spoilers interesting enough to check it out. But judging from other anime adaptions, I tend to judge in a case by case basis, and have mixed opinions about the intermediate as well as the end results. For example Tsukihime basically took a H-VN removed almost all the sex, most of the gore, oversimplified all the characters and the story; but despite all these I still find the anime extremely good... its story might have been inferior, but the end result was equivalent to the game. Of course, a longer adaption rated for adults could have been better, but then again Mirai Nikki did that, very loyally but ended up very boring after reading the manga. Monogatari Series on the other hand has very few changes, and still makes both reading the novels, and watching the anime equally thrilling.

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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
With so much happening in five episodes, I'm not expecting many explanations immediately.
The reason I chose Tsukihime is that Shin Sekai yori tries to do something similar, but while it was doing OK storywise until the 4th episode (despite the changes I later found out), the 5th one pretty much messed up its storytelling (and not because of its bad visuals that are easy to spot). Of course, things can improve, but given the route the anime has taken, I think it is very hard to happen during this arc.

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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Just look at episode four, and how many people did not like the "info dump". They wanted show, not tell. It's hard to please everyone.
As I wrote for that episode, the "info dump" contained very little new info, if one paid attention during the first three episode, which content-wise were denser in information content, and harder to filter out.

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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
I know many of us, myself and yourself included, have not read the novel. We may be spoiled on events (big ones), but not much of the details. We're relying on second hand information - the people who read the book telling us in cliffnotes about their interpretation of what happened or what scenes meant. This is precisely why I have been so critical of novel/manga discussion for this series. Except for a handful of people, no one else really knows what is going on or what will happen next. Their only point of reference is the anime, and they can only speak of that. And since this is a subforum about the anime, that is perfectly fine and expected.

All I'm saying is give it time. Five episodes really isn't much in a two cour series. Put your critique in the appropriate threads when we've hit episode 17 or 20 and you still don't like it.
Don't get me wrong here, despite that the last episode was Noitamina-like politically correct, I still think that the anime is by far the best on air this season... but this will rapidly change if the visual aspect does not improve soon. As for expecting to watch the more mature story parts of the novel, I gave up all hope after reading the first few spoilers... adult viewers are not mature enough for these kind of stories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
On a personal note, I do sometimes lament how the relatively recent rise in translated (legal and illegal) novels and manga have put a dampening effect on anime discussion. So many people come to discuss anime now pre-armed with all sorts of spoilers and info, which reduces a lot of discussion about characters and plot events to "I wonder how it will compare to what I already know from the novel/manga".

It's not something that can be escaped, but attempts to mitigate it are difficult since many people who are already spoiled have no interest in speculative debate, since they already know what will happen and they are more prone to dominate discussion with talk of what has changed between source and adaptation, and not what has happened in only the anime. A lot of the mystery and wonder has diminished in anime discussion as a result, and it makes discussing non-original anime very unappealing sometimes.

If people wonder about why anime discussion here and elsewhere has changed so much, I personally point to the widely translated source material and the industries reliance on adapting that material over original content as one of the big culprits.
I completely disagree... thanks to all the illegal translation (in a few legal jurisdictions), discussion in foreign forums can be closer to domestic ones. Remember that anime are filmed for Japanese fans of the original to buy the DVDs and/or to catch the interest of Japanese who are ignorant of the original. In both cases though the official websites and stores offer a lot more information to the viewers then what one will watch in the anime, and discussion (given the right persons and forum) can be much more interesting because of this background knowledge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcdietz03 View Post
Adapted content makes more money than original. That has to be the reason why anime is 90/10 in favor of adapted.
Basically, what 3xR wrote... originals need more money and make less money (lacking an establish fanbase, unless they include some overhyped staff members per 3xR's examples).

Sooo...there's an English version of Shinsekai Yori? What is it called? You'll have to forgive me for living under a rock.[/QUOTE]

No there isn't currently any, a fantranslation is unlikely (size/difficulty), and a commercial translation is even less likely given that the content of the novel is not material for pulp fiction, while the writer is not known abroad for a major publication.

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Originally Posted by jcdietz03 View Post
I feel like the kids will get their powers back at some point (but I don't really know).
Otherwise Maria can not become what the narrator described at the end of the second episode.

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Originally Posted by jcdietz03 View Post
This is a very different kind of dystopia than you usually see. Everyone has superpowers! The horror! Also, all of the mutant creatures around and the absence of anything you could call high technology.
Not really, I mentioned an TTRPG with a very similar setting, and there are more examples in the western media.
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Old 2012-10-30, 21:26   Link #158
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I guess I am alone here (or one of the few at least) but I actually liked the look of this episode very much.
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Old 2012-10-30, 21:55   Link #159
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
I guess I am alone here (or one of the few at least) but I actually liked the look of this episode very much.


Would you like to be more specific... IMHO, stylistically (palette choice, facial details, backgrounds) it looked great individually, but were inconsistent with the previous 4 episodes, while the visual storytelling aspect (the primary responsibility of the director) was wrong (even when I leave character development and anime only storyline mistakes aside)
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Old 2012-10-30, 23:09   Link #160
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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post


Would you like to be more specific... IMHO, stylistically (palette choice, facial details, backgrounds) it looked great individually, but were inconsistent with the previous 4 episodes, while the visual storytelling aspect (the primary responsibility of the director) was wrong (even when I leave character development and anime only storyline mistakes aside)


I liked the style of the episode. It didn't bother me that it looked different because I like when different directors bring their own touch into an episode. Consistency doesn't matter to me in this case (and that being said I personally didn't find the character designs to be that drastically different that it was a problem).

I mean I see the differences when someone puts two pictures side to side, but while watching it didn't affect me.

At the same time though I don't think I have to justify my opinion to you. It's my opinion it's not like I was telling anyone else they were wrong for having a different one.
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