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Old 2012-10-30, 22:57   Link #401
SoldierOfDarkness
The Dark Knight
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 28
Running into some issues with the GHOST armour.

Even with the +20 defense which can bring it up to +60 defence even on Classic the AI still has nearly 100% accuracy.

And then when I try to shoot back even with cloak on and am close the Elite Mutons and Heavy Floaters are still able to dodge it.

I find more success with the Archangel armour where it gives me a boost in accuracy so I focus on getting the shots in first and it's somewhat guaranteed.

Ghost armour doesn't allow it. If the 60 defence meant something that would've been nice but it felt like it wasn't there and the armour rating doesn't justify it either.
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Old 2012-10-30, 23:11   Link #402
Myssa Rei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
*snips*

That's because DEF only tops out at 40 (because technically DEF 60 is full cover, and you can't fire through that), and I've already mentioned that on Classic onwards, the aliens gain frankly UNFAIR modifiers to Hit and Critical (which is supposed to be just +10 to both, but in reality is something like +40).

And while Archangel is nice for outdoor missions, it runs into problems in mostly-indoor missions like battleship/supply barge shootdowns. This is where I've found Ghost Armor shines the most.
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Old 2012-10-31, 01:29   Link #403
SoldierOfDarkness
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 28
Tried it and it really didn't do much. Against the heavy floaters that have almost ninja-like dodging capability my guys had a hard time hitting them with ghost armour even with cloak.

When I went back to Archangel even in warships I can still hover in the air to get the accuracy bonus and score hits on them.

Another problem is I have this on PS3 so I can't mod.
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Old 2012-10-31, 01:53   Link #404
LoweGear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
That's because DEF only tops out at 40 (because technically DEF 60 is full cover, and you can't fire through that), and I've already mentioned that on Classic onwards, the aliens gain frankly UNFAIR modifiers to Hit and Critical (which is supposed to be just +10 to both, but in reality is something like +40).
Apparently according to further data mining, it's not that Classic is unfair, it's that Easy and Normal are rigged in favor of the player. Classic is apparently the default setting of the game with no modifiers, while Normal gives the player invisible bonus hit chances for the player. Easy even gives players a bonus to Aim should teammates die.

Also, I don't believe in the +40 claim of modifiers, since with the minimum of Aim that all units have (around 60-65), that should amount to enemies with 100% chance to hit and critical. Yet many times I've seen enemies on Classic and Impossible miss shots that should otherwise have killed me even when flanking or in cover (my most memorable moment being when 6 Thin Men - one of the most accurate units ingame - all missed my guy behind low cover on the same turn, and two Mutons flanking him missed too). Even my men don't miss that often if they have a 95% or above chance to hit, and only enemies with innate Defense like Muton Elites or Ethereals can reduce a 100% chance to hit to something manageable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Tried it and it really didn't do much. Against the heavy floaters that have almost ninja-like dodging capability my guys had a hard time hitting them with ghost armour even with cloak.

When I went back to Archangel even in warships I can still hover in the air to get the accuracy bonus and score hits on them.

Another problem is I have this on PS3 so I can't mod.
Ghost Armor works best on Assaults with Scatter Lasers or Alloy Cannons. Cloaking allows you to get close for 100% accuracy, the +20 Defense means you don't need to get into low cover, and firing out of cloak gives you a +100% Critical Hit Chance meaning you deal maximum damage everytime, even against Hardened enemies. Ghost Armor is seriously OP ingame, though after everything the enemy can throw at you a little reprieve is just fair.
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Old 2012-10-31, 01:53   Link #405
grylsyjaeger
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Yeah I've only got Carapace armour.

Go me. XD
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Old 2012-10-31, 02:10   Link #406
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Ghost armour is balanced by the fact that they are more expensive than fighter-craft. You would get hit with elerium shortages. It took me two months before I managed to give ghost armour to everyone, after I got it researched.

Oh, blaster bomb is great by the way. Nothing like firing a bomb that does a u-turn around a UFO wall and taking out half a dozen aliens. I think I will keep two heavies on the team from now on.

My Support with Ghost and movement upgrade is great for baiting. Everyone gets on high ground and then the bait wakes up the enemies. Run back to the defensive position and wait. The enemies would end up reaching me nearly one at a time, and then get picked off.

I give a scope to everyone now. Even the Assault. It still works great even on shotguns once she reaches Colonel. The way I see it, the extra accuracy just balances the extra armour the late game aliens got. And the extra crit chance from the scope upgrade always helps.
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Old 2012-10-31, 02:26   Link #407
LoweGear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post

Oh, blaster bomb is great by the way. Nothing like firing a bomb that does a u-turn around a UFO wall and taking out half a dozen aliens. I think I will keep two heavies on the team from now on.
This so much. Line of Sight? Obstacles? No need to worry about such things, just fire and watch everything get blown up. I always run missions like the Overseer UFO with two Heavies sporting Blaster Launchers.
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Old 2012-10-31, 02:58   Link #408
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
This so much. Line of Sight? Obstacles? No need to worry about such things, just fire and watch everything get blown up. I always run missions like the Overseer UFO with two Heavies sporting Blaster Launchers.
I do wonder what is exactly lost if I blow up an alien. I know I still get their corpses; so is the only thing I lose the weapon fragments?

Because after you get all the foundry upgrades, the Blaster Bomb and the useless Fusion Cannon (because EMP is good enough), there is nothing else you use the weapon fragments for.
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Old 2012-10-31, 03:06   Link #409
LoweGear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
I do wonder what is exactly lost if I blow up an alien. I know I still get their corpses; so is the only thing I lose the weapon fragments?
Yes, weapon fragments, weapons, and alloys afaik. Which means in the late game where all three are in abundance, blowing up everyone should be SOP.
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Old 2012-10-31, 06:31   Link #410
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Yes, weapon fragments, weapons, and alloys afaik. Which means in the late game where all three are in abundance, blowing up everyone should be SOP.
Something else is also important to note. The fact that everything that isn't target-able is invincible. So no loot on the ground or unconscious aliens can be destroyed.

Seriously though, some tactical aspect is missing if one can't grab alien bodies and run. I can tell that there are plenty of room for improvement. Hope for a day we get things like stamina and item weight back into the game.
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Old 2012-10-31, 10:18   Link #411
Skane
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 31
There is no cap on Defence. It is actually possible to exceed 100 Def using a combination of Full Cover, Ghost Armour, Smoke Grenade, etc... and Hunker. A funny thing happens when Aliens are faced with "impossible" odds. They literally freeze, because their AI-routines can't think of a way to proceed.

It's called the Overwatch Exploit, and requires tactical flanking while having troops on overwatch behind good cover. The targeted alien basically quivers on the spot until you kill it or stun it.

Ghost Armour improves your odds of survival, not ensures it.

Cheers.
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Old 2012-10-31, 10:51   Link #412
SoldierOfDarkness
The Dark Knight
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Apparently according to further data mining, it's not that Classic is unfair, it's that Easy and Normal are rigged in favor of the player. Classic is apparently the default setting of the game with no modifiers, while Normal gives the player invisible bonus hit chances for the player. Easy even gives players a bonus to Aim should teammates die.

Also, I don't believe in the +40 claim of modifiers, since with the minimum of Aim that all units have (around 60-65), that should amount to enemies with 100% chance to hit and critical. Yet many times I've seen enemies on Classic and Impossible miss shots that should otherwise have killed me even when flanking or in cover (my most memorable moment being when 6 Thin Men - one of the most accurate units ingame - all missed my guy behind low cover on the same turn, and two Mutons flanking him missed too). Even my men don't miss that often if they have a 95% or above chance to hit, and only enemies with innate Defense like Muton Elites or Ethereals can reduce a 100% chance to hit to something manageable.
So what do you do with your assault gets close and he's now close to 6-7 aliens?

I tried that and it spawned more enemies.

Even when I tried baiting them by the time the aliens got to me none of my guys could even score a hit.

I mean seriously. I felt so handicapped by the armour.

What's even annoying is that even with a 99% hit and my guy is next to them the Elite Muton/Heavy floater STILL dodges the shot.
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Old 2012-10-31, 11:52   Link #413
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Yes, weapon fragments, weapons, and alloys afaik. Which means in the late game where all three are in abundance, blowing up everyone should be SOP.
Something else to consider, is that late game almost all the enemies you run into have VERY high hp. Which means most of the time explosives are used to soften up opposition, rather than kill them outright.
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Old 2012-10-31, 12:37   Link #414
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
So what do you do with your assault gets close and he's now close to 6-7 aliens?

I tried that and it spawned more enemies.

Even when I tried baiting them by the time the aliens got to me none of my guys could even score a hit.

I mean seriously. I felt so handicapped by the armour.

What's even annoying is that even with a 99% hit and my guy is next to them the Elite Muton/Heavy floater STILL dodges the shot.
You NEVER charge your Assault in when there are still multiple aliens.

You send in the shotgun when you still have enemies left alive that you need to kill immediately.

Here is my firing order: Heavies with their rocket or metal storm, Sniper on who ever is most threatening, Support with their rifles after getting as close as they can for a good hit chance, THEN send in the shotguns to kill whatever is left.

And I recommend scopes for EVERYONE. At higher difficulties and with the late game enemies, the extra health from bonus HP made no difference. You are better off trying to kill them off first.

As for baiting?

There are two key elements;
1. Try to get on slightly higher ground whenever possible. Very hard early on and can't be done on most maps, but it makes a difference.
2. Position your soldiers so that by the time the alien saw you, you are already so close that even heavies can have 70% chance to hit or higher. This means never camp AT doorways, but instead angle yourself to the side and a few squares away. The idea is that the alien will only see you once he walk a few steps past the doorway. Camping AT doorways is risky because you would get shot at, which is dangerous when you are playing Classic or harder.
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Old 2012-10-31, 14:26   Link #415
LoweGear
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of the usual flamenco
XCOM: Enemy Unknown 2nd Patch update

Details out for what's being fixed in the 2nd patch:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steam
Firaxis has been listening to your comments on the forums and are preparing a patch that will be releasing soon on all platforms.

Exact date is TBD

list of changes that will be included in the patch.

Major Fixes
Abductor roof visibility problems resolved
Interception game hang issues resolved
- If two interceptors are sent after UFO
- If Skyranger is returning from combat after an Interceptor was already deployed
SHIV inaccessible issues resolved
AI Alien Activity Hang resolution
Multiplayer connectivity optimization


Other Fixes
TempleShip optimization: All Soldiers properly spawn when restarting the mission after clearing the second room of TempleShip
Snapshot penalty should no longer apply when Overwatching without first moving.
Easy Difficulty is now easier.
Given that the Abductor roof problem is one of my few quibbles with the game, I'm glad they're fixing that.

Also, Zero Punctuation Reviews XCOM: Enemy Unknown.

Hearing Yahtzee this positive about a game... WOW.
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Old 2012-10-31, 15:33   Link #416
Wandering_Youth
lost in wonder forever...
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: edge of my dream in the land of twilight...ZzzZzZ
Yahtzee saying he likes this game?

Man I hope this game actually does well in terms of number of units being sold. I would like to see a Terror from The Deep remake.
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Old 2012-11-01, 03:51   Link #417
Blaat
AS member for 10 years
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by patch notes
easy is now easier
Is that even possible?
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Old 2012-11-01, 06:00   Link #418
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Age: 33
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Originally Posted by Blaat View Post
Is that even possible?
It's possible, but it would be helpful if they tell us what they meant. It would take ages to find out what the changes are, especially since most of us don't even play on Easy.
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Old 2012-11-01, 08:03   Link #419
ArchmageXin
Master of Coin
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by grylsyjaeger View Post
Yeah I've only got Carapace armour.

Go me. XD
My men are still on basic and the big alien battleship is in town. Yea, I been scrumming like mad. So far Wall of Dead has positive zero death.

Having them all named after anime girls help I suppose. Anime girls never get killed

Also, Squad sight + Weapon disable = Sceptod enrage while my men cut it down with lazer fire.
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Old 2012-11-01, 08:06   Link #420
ArchmageXin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Something else to consider, is that late game almost all the enemies you run into have VERY high hp. Which means most of the time explosives are used to soften up opposition, rather than kill them outright.
Also of note, you get their weapons if you stun instead of kill them. A heavy plasma cost equal to a firestorm to make (On pure credit basis, so even late game I still bring a stunner arc or two just for "goodie shopping"
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