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Old 2012-10-30, 09:27   Link #21
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat View Post
From a source-material fan point of view, of course since they are biased in that they will most likely defend it, but how does having poor anime writing (which I do agree with, anime tends to be bottlenecked with certain irritating traits in storytelling) are leant more towards original material. I find mangas and light novels to have some pretty banal writing quite often so I don't see how having anime original material is usually worse than the source material, which in my eyes has bad writing a lot of the time. A faithful adaptation from a source that has bad writing, is gonna end up bad. A liberal adaptation of a source that has bad writing may be better.
It's certainly possible that bad source material can be improved upon, and Sengoku Collection is a good example of that. However, "filler" is considered a derogatory term, which attests to how uncommon it is.

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Originally Posted by Midonin View Post
The show did have a narrative, it was simply more of a thematic one, and not necessarily presented in a linear fashion. I will agree that doing its own thing was the key to its success, though.
Yeah, but they ignored it whenever they had a chance to!
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Old 2012-10-30, 09:35   Link #22
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Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Yeah, but they ignored it whenever they had a chance to!
I don't think they were doing so with any ill intent. The series' narrative goals were simply different - again, more towards theme and atmosphere than a plot, and that's not a bad thing. The plot may not be incredibly dense, but the story was fantastic.
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Old 2012-10-30, 09:41   Link #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midonin View Post
I don't think they were doing so with any ill intent. The series' narrative goals were simply different - again, more towards theme and atmosphere than a plot, and that's not a bad thing. The plot may not be incredibly dense, but the story was fantastic.
Just as a reminder there was no sengoku collection manga or light novel or visual novel,it was just a card game.
So the anime pretty much took the characters from the card game and that's it,the closest thing to a source it had was the classic movies the episodes were based on.
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Old 2012-10-30, 09:43   Link #24
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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
Just as a reminder there was no sengoku collection manga or light novel or visual novel,it was just a card game.
So the anime pretty much took the characters from the card game and that's it,the closest thing to a source it had was the classic movies the episodes were based on.
I know that. That's one of its greatest strengths. I'm just saying that while it may not hold up on one front used to analyze stories, it succeeds on plenty of others.
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Old 2012-10-30, 09:53   Link #25
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Originally Posted by Midonin View Post
I know that. That's one of its greatest strengths. I'm just saying that while it may not hold up on one front used to analyze stories, it succeeds on plenty of others.
Oh sorry,I know you know That was more meant as a general reminder to the people that were unfamiliar with it.

Yor avatar reminds me though,Joshiraku is a good example of an anime that comes up with anime original stuff that's in the spirit of the manga,notably how it can play around with the 4th wall
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Old 2012-10-30, 19:11   Link #26
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TL;DR…
SAO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat View Post
From a commercial point, it is indeed risky as you risk angering the source material fans. But if I were to be selfish, I simply don't give a damn since I want to be presented characters and a plot that I feel engaged with. If it means rewriting a large chunk of the source material to fit in with the visual format, then so be it.
I think the bigger risk is not really annoying the source material fans, but developing the story in such a way that either a) fails to connect with its audience (or to find an audience of its own), or b) deviates so significantly that it makes developing a continuation even more difficult. If they're going to go through that much effort, they might as well just write an original story in the first place, and then have complete control over all the characters and the plot (or at least establish from the get-go that it's an alternate universe, like an Idolm@ster Xenoglossia or something).

Them choosing a story for adaptation in the first place implies that there are elements there that are likely to be appealing as it is, so I tend to agree with the earlier comment that the key job for the staff during an adaptation should be to try to bring out the elements that people who enjoyed the original liked (because that's the surest way to attract a like audience for the anime).


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Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat View Post
Compromise is necessary from a commercial point of view, but sometimes adaptations are so focused on "pleasing" the source material fans that they almost ignore everyone else. And as Akito said, the original source material is often used as a defence to defend poor work. And again to iliterate my above point, if I were to be seflish, I couldn't careless how faithful a source is but rather how well it is portrayed in a visual format.
I don't think people should just say that whatever happens in the anime is okay just because it was like that in the original source material. But, by the same token, there may be reasons why deviating from certain elements of the original work would cause problems for the future plot. So it's not necessarily an "excuse" or a "justification", but it can be a valid reason for leaving things as is. I don't think it's as easy as you imply to take someone else's writing and "fix all the problems with it", because those fixes can also introduce new contradictions or problems. Not to mention I don't think you could necessarily sit everyone around a table and get them all to agree about the problems and solutions anyway. I could say that I thought a story was conveyed very well in a visual format, and you could say that it wasn't because you didn't enjoy it. In the either it's an opinion like any other.

Of course it's no surprise that you might think the world would be a better place if there were more anime done the way you want them to do it, but I'm not sure if that really has much to do with "faithfulness to the source material", but more with your own preferences for storytelling.
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Old 2012-10-30, 20:23   Link #27
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It merits being pointed out that Kawahara is rewriting the SAO arc for a reason, and that is because the work is reflective of a more novice writer. It'll be interesting to see how the actual author decides to revise his own story.
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Old 2012-10-30, 20:58   Link #28
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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
^
It merits being pointed out that Kawahara is rewriting the SAO arc for a reason, and that is because the work is reflective of a more novice writer. It'll be interesting to see how the actual author decides to revise his own story.
Well, and to that point, it is being rewritten in a chronological sequence not dissimilar to the anime -- but doubtless other material will be added as well, given that he no longer has to be constrained to a very small page count. I suppose it's too bad in that sense that the anime was done now as opposed to whenever this rewrite is finished... but the story goes on, anyway. I think the author himself has a good idea where he wants to go with his story eventually and what themes need to be explored, so I have a bit more confidence in his re-writing the story than in an anime team's outside perspective (due to not necessarily knowing what will happen down the road). This is why, given the choice, and for on-going series, I'd tend to prefer an adaptation that's more loyal to the source material (without, of course, slavishly copying it or being too overly-bound to things that don't work well in an animated medium).
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Old 2012-10-31, 07:45   Link #29
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I care little for whether an adaptation remains 'faithful' to its source material; I'm more worried about whether said adaptation will be a good work in itself. Hell, I like it when adaptations put their own spin on things, because then it makes experiencing both works worthwhile.
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Old 2012-10-31, 11:14   Link #30
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As long as a story remains coherent and engaging, I don't care all that much about faithfulness. If there is a need to change a few things around in order for the story to work better in animated format, then it should be done. Faithfulness should not come at the expense of the rest.

That being said, it is still important to remain faithful to the source material to an extent. Changes are fine, but major changes in the storyline for seemingly no reason other than the anime writers' whim are a betrayal of the original work, unless the creator of the work himself gave them the go-ahead to do when they wanted. Basically, as long it respects the original creator's wishes, I'm fine with any kind of adaptation.
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