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Old 2012-11-03, 08:26   Link #1
Benigmatica
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Triple Crown of Moe: A Possibility...

Hello, I'm Benigmatica. I was once a viewer of the AnimeSuki forums since 2010, and now I've recently become a member of this forum.

Anyway, this is the burning question I wanted to ask: Is it possible to have a character win Saimoe, Best Moe, and ISML in a single year?

Since 2009, I've observed the possibility when Taiga won both SaiMoe and Best Moe in the same year. Of course, she didn't win ISML on that year because of a certain Hinagiku from Hayate no Gotoku!

In 2010, the same thing happened with Mio Akiyama from K-On!, winning both ISML and BestMoe on that year. She would be a top contender on SaiMoe 2010, but she was upstaged by Azusa Nakano, winning that tournament.

Even though Azu-nyan won SaiMoe, it seems that the K-On! faction attained what Taiga and Mio hope for: The Triple Crown. Of course, it only counts for the faction and not the character.

It would be possible for Taiga to win ISML and get the Career Grand Slam, but it would not be possible for Mio to win SaiMoe since she can never enter in 2013 and beyond unless Kyoto Animation make a 3rd Season.

Despite having the Triple Crown in 2010, future Moe Tournaments would not have the same feat as the K-On! faction, given the different rules and regulations between the three tournaments.

I would suggest to make a cooperation between the three tournaments and pitch the idea of a Triple Crown, but they won't listen, especially SaiMoe and BestMoe due to language barrier.

So anyway, I hope you understand what I'm delivering to you guys and gals. Comments are welcome from this thread.
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Old 2012-11-03, 08:36   Link #2
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Not only is it incredibly difficult to attain, but the unofficial Triple Crown is apparently also in danger of becoming just the Double Crown following the existential crisis, in a traditional tournament sense, that the Best Moe tournament (KBM) is going through as mentioned in the following thread:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=115697

The original Saimoe from Japan (AST) is also getting fewer and fewer votes with each passing year due to expanding bans from the tournament organizers. I don't want to say it or even imply what's in store for its future, but there is a limit to how few votes it can get... hopefully not true for next year.
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Old 2012-11-03, 08:45   Link #3
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Well, I've looked on that mentioned thread and it seems that it's heading in the wrong direction.

Now I'm not a politician but SaiMoe and BestMoe should stop being xenophobic and embrace the idea of having a Triple Crown. Although they would not hear my plea.
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Old 2012-11-03, 11:51   Link #4
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Well to put it into some perspective for you. The Tennis Grand Slam only become realistic when the French dropped their "French Club Payers ONLY" stance in around 1924 (the championship of France having started in 1891), despite there being an opportunity for someone to claim all four tournaments as early as 1907 (first Non-UK SW19 winner). Since that time it has been the preserve of a privileged few to achieve the feat.
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Old 2012-11-03, 12:00   Link #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benigmatica View Post
Well, I've looked on that mentioned thread and it seems that it's heading in the wrong direction.

Now I'm not a politician but SaiMoe and BestMoe should stop being xenophobic and embrace the idea of having a Triple Crown. Although they would not hear my plea.
Actually some locals too are banned

Mami and Homura won Saimoe and Bestmoe respectively but failed in ISML
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Old 2012-11-03, 14:26   Link #6
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Voting may have already peaked in ISML as well. The finale match in 2012 produced 3711 less votes than 2011. Saimoe as a whole doesn't have an exactly bright future.

If we're talking about the triple crown, then KBM should be the first "restriction" we have. When does KBM stop being credible? Is it next year when they're using the point system, or this year when they essentially made it Anizone registration only with no advertising, or last year with the whole rollback fiasco? If we accept 2012 and assume next year will no longer count, then the list of eligible triple crown winners becomes: Suiseiseki, Hinagiku, Holo, Aisaka Taiga, Akiyama Mio, Akemi Homura, and Senjougahara Hitagi.

Of that list, Suiseiseki and Taiga won AST. Taiga is also performing well in ISML, so she is the most likely candidate. ISML seems to have forgotten Rozen Maiden, but another TV series could possibly make Suiseiseki win. After that are characters likely to get another OVA/series so they can be eligible for AST. Hinagiku, Mio, Homura, and Hitagi seems to be next hopefuls for winning AST. Hinagiku already won ISML, but her strength in AST always reach around Top 8 and that's it. Mio already won in ISML, and she may have a shot in the future because Azusa showed K-On! can do well in AST. Homura has probably no chance in ISML, and Hitagi is consistently Top 16 in ISML but not more.
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Old 2012-11-03, 17:19   Link #7
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It does sound like a cool idea, but J-saimoe is just too broken to take seriously anyways, and getting them to care about this when they shut the rest of the world out seems kinda futile. It'll fade from relevance soon enough, and frankly will not be missed.

But if it makes you feel any better, one could apply the title to entire shows as a team, since people vote like that anyways outside of ISML.
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Old 2012-11-03, 21:15   Link #8
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I swear I thought this is Triple R's thread.....
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Old 2012-11-03, 21:53   Link #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
I swear I thought this is Triple R's thread.....
Maybe I should start a tournament called the "Triple Crown of Moe", and make people think it's about combining ISML, J-SaiMoe, and BestMoe into one, when really it's just a spoof off of my handle.

The winning girl would have a crown placed on her head by an image of Char Aznable with my face photoshopped under his blonde locks.


In all seriousness, the OP's idea is an interesting one, and might have worked... two or three years ago. But J-SaiMoe and BestMoe are both in real decline lately, it seems to me. I honestly think that a current Triple Crown of Moe would very predictably just re-award the current ISML Tiara holder (and probably in a painfully one-sided fashion).
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Old 2012-11-03, 23:04   Link #10
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Credibility issue of Best moe started even earlier in 2011 as the whole rollback thing was made possible by staff's distaste for certain anime series with large fanbase. I would argue that rollback itself is not a bad decision, because when you have secured enough evidence of fraudulent voting that has severely influenced result, is forging ahead with such tainted result the best course of action? In real life, they do overturn elections and make people vote again even though amount of cheating wasn't enough to change the outcome. In Best Moe case, amount of multivotes that got through was more than enough to overturn multiple matches of high significance. The Best Moe Staff had new means to fight the multivote. Implementing it would have changed the voter pool in a way, thus rollback was done along with implementing of newer protocol which involved registration. In 2011, all effort to get the voters registered was done, with English Voter Registration page being available. The trouble is, in 2012, that English voter registration page and voter outreach program was disbanded, thus I was effectively fired from my KBM staff position. While Saimoe problem is more of xenophobia, Best Moe's problem is more of website insider vs outsider confrontation.
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Old 2012-11-03, 23:11   Link #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
Of that list, Suiseiseki and Taiga won AST. Taiga is also performing well in ISML, so she is the most likely candidate. ISML seems to have forgotten Rozen Maiden, but another TV series could possibly make Suiseiseki win. After that are characters likely to get another OVA/series so they can be eligible for AST. Hinagiku, Mio, Homura, and Hitagi seems to be next hopefuls for winning AST. Hinagiku already won ISML, but her strength in AST always reach around Top 8 and that's it. Mio already won in ISML, and she may have a shot in the future because Azusa showed K-On! can do well in AST. Homura has probably no chance in ISML, and Hitagi is consistently Top 16 in ISML but not more.
Well, Taiga has the possibility of winning ISML and getting the Career Triple Crown. Of course, it would be hard for others, especially Mio Akiyama winning SaiMoe unless KyoAni make a 3rd Season of K-On!

Suiseiseki and Hinagiku might win the last grand slam tournament (Suiseiseki at ISML, Hina-chan at SaiMoe) if there is no obstacles nor fake voters ruining their run at the tournament.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
It does sound like a cool idea, but J-saimoe is just too broken to take seriously anyways, and getting them to care about this when they shut the rest of the world out seems kinda futile. It'll fade from relevance soon enough, and frankly will not be missed.

But if it makes you feel any better, one could apply the title to entire shows as a team, since people vote like that anyways outside of ISML.
Well, K-On! made the Triple Crown feat in 2010. And I agree, SaiMoe is so broken that it loses its reputation as the biggest and oldest Moe competition ever.
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Old 2012-11-04, 00:11   Link #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benigmatica View Post
Well, K-On! made the Triple Crown feat in 2010. And I agree, SaiMoe is so broken that it loses its reputation as the biggest and oldest Moe competition ever.
It's been merely the oldest and not largest for quite a while.

I didn't mention Best Moe because it was so pitifully organized and their response to cheating was laughable. Though I guess they remain operational.

ISML wins by default, sadly...

In the end, this is what happens when xenophobia and factionalism happens so much; you end up with an extremely stratified, boring, and one sided contest. It became so blatantly obvious that the voters in J-saimoe weren't going after the most moe female character, but just wanting their pet show to win, even if they have to push a trash character in. Now, this happens elsewhere, but nowhere else is it so blatant and obnoxiously calculated. Though I guess there's no reason to have taken such an obscure contest in another country so seriously in the first place.

Just ignore me though; I think my idea of moe is just out of touch with the rest of people.

And this is exactly why Character fanboyism > Series Fanboyism
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Old 2012-11-04, 02:03   Link #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
It's been merely the oldest and not largest for quite a while.

I didn't mention Best Moe because it was so pitifully organized and their response to cheating was laughable. Though I guess they remain operational.
Please list Best Moe's problems and tell us how it might be fixed.
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Old 2012-11-04, 02:48   Link #14
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At the very least J-Saimoe never rebooted a tournament when they realize that there was cheating going on.

The Triple-Crown is always possible but the credibility of "having" the triple crown is the one in question. I mean as much as I love J-Saimoe, the vote totals are almost too low to even be taken seriously (and Best Moe has it worse).

DAMN YOU GAIJIN-PHOBES.
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Old 2012-11-04, 02:54   Link #15
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Originally Posted by ahelo View Post
At the very least J-Saimoe never rebooted a tournament when they realize that there was cheating going on.

The Triple-Crown is always possible but the credibility of "having" the triple crown is the one in question. I mean as much as I love J-Saimoe, the vote totals are almost too low to even be taken seriously (and Best Moe has it worse).

DAMN YOU GAIJIN-PHOBES.
Please tell us why rebooting is worse than accepting obviously tainted results. By same logic, should people in real life accept election results that has been corrupted since rebooting is bad?

Here is the announcement that accompanied the "reboot" written in English.

Source: https://anizone.net/14414490

Quote:

There recently has been string of surprise upsets accompanied by sudden increase of total number of votes by about three hundred. Even more troubling is the fact that the total vote count usually go down by the same three hundred in the following matches. Foul play and illegitimate voting was suspected, but without hard evidence, the Best Moe Tournament Staff initially decided not to change the results based only on suspicion. If these questionable votes were from action of few people trying ballot stuffing from same IP range or from abuse of 3G network, these votes should have been blocked by the extended vote wait time, and uncovered by the ip address check.Despite taking various countermeasures, the problematic votes could not be blocked nor filtered out, and, early on, the systematic limitations made it not even possible to discern which of the votes should be questioned.

As more upsets occurred, we have accumulated enough evidence to discern the general trend of these questionable votes and confirmed, beyond reasonable doubt, that there indeed is someone orchestrating a massive block voting with intent to manipulate the results to their liking. Furthermore, we have reasons to believe their intention to be malicious, seeking to ridicule the participants of Best Moe and cause as much anguish among the supporters of popular characters as possible.

It should be noted that Japanese Saimoe, the inspiration for the Best Moe Tournament, is being ravaged by anti-Moe-tournament factions. These factions repeatedly attempt to defeat the strong, or in other word, characters with large number of supporters, deriving satisfaction from the sufferings of the normal voters and disruptions of normal tournament progress. The voting pattern of Best Moe tournament’s mysterious voting group, likely to be a single person or a very small number of people, has much in common with voting patterns of Japanese Saimoe’s anti-Moe-Tournament factions.Although we now know what to look for, we felt that the these votes may already have accomplished most of what it set out to do, thus not addressing the questionable upset may be considered as giving into the demand of these 'terrorists.'


Please understand that we believed it to be not proper to declare a vote illegitimate without hard evidence. It was the lack of the ‘smoking gun’ which made us unable to void the votes in question. As tournament progressed, however, these suspicious behaviors persisted, and now we feel it is imperative that drastic steps be taken to restore the integrity of the Best Moe Tournament. Therefore, the following steps will be taken.



  • The current 2011 Best Moe Tournament Otaku Division matches will immediately stop.
  • A new Moe Tournament will start with top 96 from the current Best Moe Otaku Division.
  • All voters will now need Anizone.net Member ID in order to vote.


With additional information supplied by Anizone.net registration, we hope to stop these malicious votes intending to create havoc in the tournament . We regret the fact this means that we have to give up the principle of allowing non-member votes in Best Moe Tournament, but we felt this is the best way to restore the credibility of Best Moe Tournament. We apologize for whatever inconvenience this may bring, and hope you continue to participate in Best Moe Tournament.






I have corrected 2 grammar errors in the post. The corrections are marked by underline.


More questions for all: What is worse, refusing to address a problem, or acknowledging that a problem exists and try solve it by doing things over again? Would it have been better for Best Moe to simply fold when the problems are revealed like SaiGar?
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Old 2012-11-04, 03:59   Link #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wontaek View Post
Please list Best Moe's problems and tell us how it might be fixed.
Well, there's no non-Korean support anymore for one. That bizzare points system that was mentioned above. As for the rest, I think the numbers speak for themselves.

Dunno what to fix at this point. A complete revamp, or death.
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Old 2012-11-04, 04:14   Link #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wontaek View Post
Please tell us why rebooting is worse than accepting obviously tainted results. By same logic, should people in real life accept election results that has been corrupted since rebooting is bad?

Here is the announcement that accompanied the "reboot" written in English.

Source: https://anizone.net/14414490

I have corrected 2 grammar errors in the post. The corrections are marked by underline.


More questions for all: What is worse, refusing to address a problem, or acknowledging that a problem exists and try solve it by doing things over again? Would it have been better for Best Moe to simply fold when the problems are revealed like SaiGar?
-____- Acknowledging a problem exists is always a good thing but when you redo the entire tournament based on one character (there were probably more but everyone knows who and what the problem was anyway), I doubt that's any better than refusing to address a problem. It might have been better if the tournament makers just accepted what happened (besides the fact they even allowed such cheating to happen is already their fault), kick the character/s that cheated out of the tourney and then make stricter protocols afterwards and I'm sure the tournament makers saw this option (rather then redoing everything which only made things even worse).

But past is past, there isn't much use in getting mad at something that can't be fixed.

Going back to the topic itself, I really think Taiga's the one with the best chances (though it's still low) to get the Triple Crown. She's still going strong in ISML after all.
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Old 2012-11-04, 04:28   Link #18
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-____- Acknowledging a problem exists is always a good thing but when you redo the entire tournament based on one character (there were probably more but everyone knows who and what the problem was anyway), I doubt that's any better than refusing to address a problem. It might have been better if the tournament makers just accepted what happened (besides the fact they even allowed such cheating to happen is already their fault), kick the character/s that cheated out of the tourney and then make stricter protocols afterwards and I'm sure the tournament makers saw this option (rather then redoing everything which only made things even worse).
It was one character? I'm afraid I don't know who you are talking about, because I thought there were several characters used as "assassins". Care to enlighten me?

Spoiler for What I believe as the real problem with Best Moe and the only possible way to rescue it:



As for Triple Crown, I think best choices are either new characters from second half of 2012 or strong characters getting 2nd season next year, like those from OreImo and Railgun. Since Mikoto is very well liked in Korea, with that 2nd season, Mikoto got good chance to win Best Moe, if it happens(a very big if). The question would be Saimoe, and even there Mikoto's chance isn't horrible. Kuroneko has good popularity everywhere, and with the 2nd season, do have chance to nail all 3 events at once, unless Saimoe, which ends the latest, decides to spite her and other tournament in case Kuroneko wins ISML and Best Moe. A newcomer from popular anime series like SAO may also get a shot at triple crown , though there is a chance that SAO fans might become its worst enemy as there are many popular characters within the series, which can sometimes splinter the faction .
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Old 2012-11-04, 11:09   Link #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wontaek View Post
As for Triple Crown, I think best choices are either new characters from second half of 2012 or strong characters getting 2nd season next year, like those from OreImo and Railgun. Since Mikoto is very well liked in Korea, with that 2nd season, Mikoto got good chance to win Best Moe, if it happens(a very big if). The question would be Saimoe, and even there Mikoto's chance isn't horrible. Kuroneko has good popularity everywhere, and with the 2nd season, do have chance to nail all 3 events at once, unless Saimoe, which ends the latest, decides to spite her and other tournament in case Kuroneko wins ISML and Best Moe. A newcomer from popular anime series like SAO may also get a shot at triple crown , though there is a chance that SAO fans might become its worst enemy as there are many popular characters within the series, which can sometimes splinter the faction .
Oh yeah, I forgot about the threat from Sword Art Online. Of course, there's a chance that neither Asuna nor Leafa/Suguha would not get the Triple Crown for next year.
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Old 2012-11-04, 16:44   Link #20
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I think it is possible for a character winning Triple Crown is her being popular in Japan, Korea, and internationally of course and not vulnerable to antis at the same time. Since I think an anti-faction of a girl who can potentially win triple crown would ruin her chances of obtaining that title. As for current girls I feel like Noumi of Little Busters might have a chance of winning triple crown but it is pretty low though.
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