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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 18
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... 16 14.68%
9 out of 10 : Excellent... 30 27.52%
8 out of 10 : Very Good... 29 26.61%
7 out of 10 : Good... 20 18.35%
6 out of 10 : Average... 5 4.59%
5 out of 10 : Below Average... 2 1.83%
4 out of 10 : Poor... 1 0.92%
3 out of 10 : Bad... 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad... 3 2.75%
1 out of 10 : Torturous... 3 2.75%
Voters: 109. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-11-03, 22:07   Link #61
Clarste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
If Asuna were completely in charge, Sugou wouldn't've been feeling her up.
I didn't say she was completely in charge, I said she was more in charge than Kirito. Cause Kirito's just dicking around hoping that maybe this will help him in some unclear way.

The theme of this entire arc is "powerlessness" versus "freedom". Look for that everywhere cause you'll see it.
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Old 2012-11-03, 22:19   Link #62
Moe Connection
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Originally Posted by frubam View Post
I think I'm gonna drop this. This show has really waned on me since the new game started. I just can't take how Kirito has been just given all of this power in a new game and can practically do whatever he wants(least that's what it feels like). At least in SAO, it felt like, despite being a beta tester, he had to work from the ground-up to become as strong as he did, and with inherit major risks(because traveling solo in an mmo is tantamount to suicide). Here, he's just given all this power. True enough, he did 'earn' his power from SAO, but the way he just can oppose anything he wants because of this strength coming into a new game really feels like cheating.

Then there's the whole Sugu thing. Cute girl she is, and I like seeing her develop(and the fanservice =03) but she is nothing but an unrequited love that is set up to fail, on BOTH sides of the fence. And I HATE unrequited loves >=01. I could at least tolerate it if it was like Liz; a one-ep thing, or only in the real world, but not in the virtual world too. I think I'll pull out while I'm ahead. SAO wasn't perfect, but it was a fun ride. This ALO is just making me facepalm every week in succession.
He did work for his power....in a sense...in Sword Art Online that is.... His current form is the result of his hard labor in Sword Art Online.

Last edited by Moe Connection; 2012-11-03 at 22:41.
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Old 2012-11-03, 22:23   Link #63
Tsukou
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
  • We also meet Recon in real life, and his unrequited feelings for Suguha are made clear. As was said, poor Recon...
Do people actually feel sorry for Recon? I found him so annoying, he's the type who thinks he owns a girl just because she plays a game with him. And when it's pretty obvious those feelings aren't reciprocated, he still clings onto her obsessively. Obviously since he's doing his reconassaince it'll play a role later, but that doesn't change that his entire interaction just pissed the hell out of me, and was really the only downside for me while watching this episode. I can accept the excessive fan service, and stuff, but so annoying.
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Old 2012-11-03, 22:41   Link #64
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Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
-snip
The ironic part of all this is, if Kirito and Asuna swapped places, people like you probably would have zero problems with it.
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Old 2012-11-03, 22:47   Link #65
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Originally Posted by Tsukou View Post
Do people actually feel sorry for Recon? I found him so annoying, he's the type who thinks he owns a girl just because she plays a game with him. .
I think I felt the same way in the beginning, but I realize that the annoying part is his avatar itself... The weird haircut and clumsy, weak looking gestures of him...

But right after seeing him in real life.. I think he is good for Suguha..
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Old 2012-11-03, 23:01   Link #66
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Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
Which doesn't change that she's currently stuck in a cage getting groped by Mr. Rapeypants while the audience is rooting for Kirito to gallop in on his white horse and give Sugou a beat-down.
I'll have to check this, but my impression from the scene was that he didn't actually touch her. He looked like he was going to (trying to get a reaction from her) but the camera panned back to show his hand away. Maybe I'm wrong - will check again when I get home.

That aside, I didn't think the point of the scene was really "come rescue me Kirito" but that she's one step closer to getting herself out of there. Of course right now she has nowhere to go.
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Old 2012-11-03, 23:04   Link #67
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I think the design is to make him look as weak and pathetic as possible. How does he manage to stand all day with bended knees and back?
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Old 2012-11-03, 23:07   Link #68
Utsuro no Hako
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Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
What's wrong with her being depowered in a new RPG, though? That's how the genre works; before becoming a demi-god badass, you've gotta do your time and kill some slimes. At level 1 you're pretty defenseless against all the world's creatures. Sugou could've easily done the same thing to her in Sword Art Online the November of 2022.
Depowerment has nothing to do with her level in the game -- it's her lack of agency in the current situation. If it's just how the genre works, why isn't Kirito the one in this predicament and Asuna the one who has to rescue him? There's really no reason other than it's the girl's job to be the damsel in distress and the boy's duty to be the white knight who rescues her.

Quote:
And I dunno, I don't think the molestation stuff is rubbing things in too thick. It's not altogether uncommon for terrible people in reality to relish in doing unnecessary terrible things. Just comes with the territory of being a sicko.
The problem is, it's only happening to prove that Sugou's a sicko -- which is plenty obvious anyway. Something absolutely horrible is happening to Asuna and will probably leave her emotionally scarred for life, but that doesn't get any attention from the story because it's not important -- the whole thing is nothing more than character building for someone who's as one dimensional as Snidely Whiplash.

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Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
The ironic part of all this is, if Kirito and Asuna swapped places, people like you probably would have zero problems with it.
That's like saying, "If that picture were of a white guy eating fried chicken and watermelon, you wouldn't be offended." What makes the situation with Asuna sexist isn't the situation, but the wider cultural context where things like this happen to female characters far, far more often than male.

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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I'll have to check this, but my impression from the scene was that he didn't actually touch her. He looked like he was going to (trying to get a reaction from her) but the camera panned back to show his hand away. Maybe I'm wrong - will check again when I get home.
The reaction shot of Asuna grimacing seems pretty clear that he touched her.
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Old 2012-11-03, 23:17   Link #69
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I'll have to check this, but my impression from the scene was that he didn't actually touch her. He looked like he was going to (trying to get a reaction from her) but the camera panned back to show his hand away. Maybe I'm wrong - will check again when I get home.
You're right, he didn't.

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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
That aside, I didn't think the point of the scene was really "come rescue me Kirito" but that she's one step closer to getting herself out of there. Of course right now she has nowhere to go.
Pretty much, Asuna was actually elated when Sugou let slip the fact that Kirito is alive while bragging, she had to fake being distressed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
Depowerment has nothing to do with her level in the game -- it's her lack of agency in the current situation. If it's just how the genre works, why isn't Kirito the one in this predicament and Asuna the one who has to rescue him? There's really no reason other than it's the girl's job to be the damsel in distress and the boy's duty to be the white knight who rescues her.
Why would Sugou kidnap Kirito instead of Asuna? is Kirito the daughter of the owner of the company he's working under? will he provide him with a way to "get in" to the family and eventual ownership of said company? It's fine to dislike traditionally sexists tropes, it's another when you start to categorically dismiss all of them without looking at the context of the story.
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Old 2012-11-03, 23:21   Link #70
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I think the design is to make him look as weak and pathetic as possible. How does he manage to stand all day with bended knees and back?
What's funny is when you really get down to it, Kirito and Recon aren't really that different from one another when it comes to their real-life selves. They share quite a few core characteristics.

The main difference is that Kirito has "protagonist power". It's really only because he's the main character of the story that everything supposedly "good" happens to him and the other males around him get shafted.
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Old 2012-11-03, 23:22   Link #71
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Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
The reaction shot of Asuna grimacing seems pretty clear that he touched her.
Just checked it -- he was implying that he was going to, and she reacted thinking that he might, but he didn't do it -- his hand was away when the camera switched to it. So I think he did not touch her.

Edit: And actually, I double-down on my earlier interpretation of the scene -- when she figured out that Kirito was alive, she became more motivated to go find him. So I think it really isn't about "oh come save me, Kirito", but I think she has as much "agency" as you can hope for in someone who's being held captive. Of course it would be better if she weren't in this situation, but when is that not the case when anyone is held captive. Strength of character shines through despite the situation the story places them in.
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-11-03 at 23:34.
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Old 2012-11-03, 23:36   Link #72
The Green One
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*sigh* All these complaints about Asuna being depowered is growing truly tiresome.

Yes, how DARE she be in any sort of trouble and require aid. How dare she let her log out sequence from SAO get hijacked by an outside source and get forcefully dragged into another world into a GM locked cage with her avatar's powers and abilities sealed by GM control.

How dare she be helpless to stop Mr Molestation's advances when he's armed with GM powers and physical force. How dare she have human emotions of fear and anxiety from being trapped for two months waiting for her turn as a mind control science experiment.

How dare she just passively wait in her cage and do nothing to escape. Oh wait she did do something, she used her brain to exploit her enemy's carelessness and steal the door code.

How dare she use thoughts of Kirito, someone she loves as a form of hope to try to keep her spirits up in a desperate situation.

How dare she be the damsel in distress and not Kirito. It's not like she has things that Sugou wants besides her body. Oh wait, her father's company.

*sigh* Yes all this is a sign of truly terrible writing. Writing Asuna as a human with human fears, anxieties, and drives. What WERE they thinking?

If you're still reading this post, bravo to you, even if it wont change your opinion.
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Old 2012-11-03, 23:45   Link #73
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Yes, how DARE she be in any sort of trouble and require aid. How dare she let her log out sequence from SAO get hijacked by an outside source and get forcefully dragged into another world into a GM locked cage with her avatar's powers and abilities sealed by GM control.
Ask the Author?


Quote:
How dare she be helpless to stop Mr Molestation's advances when he's armed with GM powers and physical force. How dare she have human emotions of fear and anxiety from being trapped for two months waiting for her turn as a mind control science experiment.
Because he is just the ADMIN of the GAME.

Quote:
How dare she just passively wait in her cage and do nothing to escape. Oh wait she did do something, she used her brain to exploit her enemy's carelessness and steal the door code.
You just answered it yourself.

Quote:
How dare she use thoughts of Kirito, someone she loves as a form of hope to try to keep her spirits up in a desperate situation.
Love will get us through...

Quote:
How dare she be the damsel in distress and not Kirito. It's not like she has things that Sugou wants besides her body. Oh wait, her father's company.
He is desperate and distress..... It would have been worst if not for Yui and Leafa

Quote:
*sigh* Yes all this is a sign of truly terrible writing. Writing Asuna as a human with human fears, anxieties, and drives. What WERE they thinking?
After 18 episodes?! Just now?

Quote:
If you're still reading this post, bravo to you, even if it wont change your opinion.
Why posted it then?
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Old 2012-11-03, 23:46   Link #74
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The post was sarcastic, Genji.
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Old 2012-11-03, 23:47   Link #75
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Originally Posted by The Green One View Post
Yes all this is a sign of truly terrible writing. Writing Asuna as a human with human fears, anxieties, and drives. What WERE they thinking?

If you're still reading this post, bravo to you, even if it wont change your opinion.
Well, it's true that the author didn't have to put her in this situation in the first place. Given that she was placed in this situation, she's probably handling it as well as you might expect. But I think the argument is that the author should have told a different story with the characters instead of this kind of story. Part of this is because it employs old stereotypes that some people find annoying/tiresome. So you're right that people's opinions won't change, because the problem is that they don't like the plot development as a broad concept, independent of whether there's any in-story logic that explains it.
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Old 2012-11-03, 23:47   Link #76
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Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
The post was sarcastic, Genji.
I'm always a victim of online sarcasm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Just checked it -- he was implying that he was going to, and she reacted thinking that he might, but he didn't do it -- his hand was away when the camera switched to it. So I think he did not touch her.
I think he groped only one....
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Old 2012-11-03, 23:54   Link #77
The Green One
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Well, it's true that the author didn't have to put her in this situation in the first place. Given that she was placed in this situation, she's probably handling it as well as you might expect. But I think the argument is that the author should have told a different story with the characters instead of this kind of story. Part of this is because it employs old stereotypes that some people find annoying/tiresome. So you're right that people's opinions won't change, because the problem is that they don't like the plot development as a broad concept, independent of whether there's any in-story logic that explains it.
Fair enough, but what the complainers fail to explain is how to tell a coherent story with this since without Asuna's captivity, Sogou no longer has a direct way to get ahold of Asuna's father's comapny, Kirito would have no reason to go to the new game and no one would find out about the SAO survivor captives until it's too late and the entire story would require an extensive if not total rewrite.

I can totally respect the dislike of the distressed damsel trope. What irritates me is the blatant distortion of facts, motivations, and the story itself of complaints. In my own personal opinion, if one is going to complain about something, at least have a sound argument.

I'll freely admit that the tropes displayed here are hardly the most original thing in the world, but are we so bound up in nitpicking, tropes, and personal character preferences that we can't enjoy a story we've stuck with for one and a half seasons?

Obviously the answer is yes if we're having this conversation. Maybe I'm just too easy going with my anime shows but people seem to be getting way too bent out of shape over this.
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Old 2012-11-04, 00:02   Link #78
Bahamut
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...by the looks of it...if and when Asuna breaks free on her own...shes probably under some admin lock restricting her abilities so perhaps that is where Kirito comes in from his new game plus data...

...but to be honest going against an admin is like fighting God isn't it? ...and this douch bag shouldnt be too stupid not to abuse his powers...i wouldn't...
...and although Sugou may be like that other f***face from Accel World but now he got command over the system...so i say Kirito and friends need help from an outside source...

Spoiler for ...a stranger's opinion...:
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Old 2012-11-04, 00:07   Link #79
kyp275
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Originally Posted by The Green One View Post
Fair enough, but what the complainers fail to explain is how to tell a coherent story with this since without Asuna's captivity, Sogou no longer has a direct way to get ahold of Asuna's father's comapny, Kirito would have no reason to go to the new game and no one would find out about the SAO survivor captives until it's too late and the entire story would require an extensive if not total rewrite.
Chances are they would rather this whole section of story doesn't exist.

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Originally Posted by The Green One View Post
In my own personal opinion, if one is going to complain about something, at least have a sound argument.
In their view, it probably goes like:

I hate Plot Device 1 = PD1 is always bad -> PD1 is in Story B = Story B is bad!

Everything else automatically becomes inconsequential.


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Originally Posted by The Green One View Post
Maybe I'm just too easy going with my anime shows but people seem to be getting way too bent out of shape over this.
Can't agree with you more. I can probably nitpick and rip apart just about every anime show out there, but then why would I bother watching it in the first place?
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Old 2012-11-04, 00:07   Link #80
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Originally Posted by The Green One View Post
I'll freely admit that the tropes displayed here are hardly the most original thing in the world, but are we so bound up in nitpicking, tropes, and personal character preferences that we can't enjoy a story we've stuck with for one and a half seasons?

Obviously the answer is yes if we're having this conversation. Maybe I'm just too easy going with my anime shows but people seem to be getting way too bent out of shape over this.
Well Green One, welcome to the internet. Where everything is serious business and having a positive opinion toward something that's objectively bad to mediocre is heavily discouraged.

Seriously though, can you blame so many folk for being so critical towards a show that had so much hype and high expectations from many people and hardly managed to follow through with it?

And some people probably don't find positive aspects worthwhile to discuss. Sometimes negative criticism leads to much more interesting discussions.
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