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Old 2012-11-02, 01:43   Link #361
Vexx
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Eventually most things get a driver ... eventually. You're probably on safer ground if the device had a driver that worked with Windows 7. But yeah, be sure and check your device websites before upgrading. That goes for printers, scanners, i/o cards, tv cards, sound devices, special custom or industry-specific card/devices, etc.

Some people also have a habit of waiting for SP2 of an MS OS. Historically, that's been the magic point (other than NT (SP4) but that was only their second time trying an operating system that wasn't a toy).

My OS/2 Warp package sits on my museum shelf because it was abandoned early (and sadly) as MS rushed to NT.
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Old 2012-11-02, 03:53   Link #362
npal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Eventually most things get a driver ... eventually. You're probably on safer ground if the device had a driver that worked with Windows 7. But yeah, be sure and check your device websites before upgrading. That goes for printers, scanners, i/o cards, tv cards, sound devices, special custom or industry-specific card/devices, etc.

Some people also have a habit of waiting for SP2 of an MS OS. Historically, that's been the magic point (other than NT (SP4) but that was only their second time trying an operating system that wasn't a toy).

My OS/2 Warp package sits on my museum shelf because it was abandoned early (and sadly) as MS rushed to NT.
Of course, there's talk online that Microsoft cancelled SP2 for 7 and is going to drop the whole SP business, but I suppose that remains to be seen.
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Old 2012-11-02, 07:02   Link #363
SeijiSensei
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Hatsune Miku on Windows 8:

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Old 2012-11-02, 07:41   Link #364
npal
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Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Hatsune Miku on Windows 8:
LOL, pretty nice
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Old 2012-11-02, 09:12   Link #365
Random32
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
I hope I'm the only one who is not impressed with Windows 8 regardless of its flashiness.
I do like the new visual scheme (Aero glass was ugly, the new flat color style is a lot nicer), but the visual flashiness really isn't the reason I like 8 at all.

Quote:
f the operating system is an irrelevancy, then there's no reason for Microsoft to offer downgrade rights.
The OS is relevant. It has to be the exact same for as long as possible so the secretary doesn't need to be retrained.

@Simonsy
I don't use Metro for much other than launching apps, so never really noticed these.

@Seiji
Awesome video.

Sorta on the topic of drivers. People upgrading to Windows 8 or doing a clean install on a new machine won't be able to get manufacturer specific Metro apps. Most of them are probably useless bloatware, but some of the utilities you actually want (Thinkpad Power Manager/equivalent to set charging limits on the battery, etc).

I wonder how/if MS is going to fix that...
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Old 2012-11-03, 02:20   Link #366
0utf0xZer0
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Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
I know people here find it hard to believe, but changing operating systems usually requires user training at companies. Many people have an entirely rote relationship with computers in their jobs. Changing what they seen on screen can be remarkably disruptive.
IT at my parents' jobs has been quite willing to upgrade software without training users. Admittedly, my dad works in IT but his expertise is in mainframes, not learning new versions of MS Office. His comment on the matter was that learning new versions of Windows was easy and learning new versions of Office wasn't.

But my dad still uses Windows XP on his very recent, very high end work computer that had to be special ordered with the OS because Windows 7 hasn't been validated for anything beyond limited deployment by his company yet.

(Fun fact: this is not the most Dilbert-esque IT related story my dad has from his work.)


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As for those features.... Support for multiple monitors is not going to be a big selling point when most of the office staff are looking at a single 15" display.
I find it kind of headdesk worthy that this is still standard many places. I frequently have two Windows open side by side (I don't know how I survived before Windows 7 and Aero Snap) even if I'm working on my 11.6 inch, 1366x768 Thinkpad X120E because it's better than having to swap between my notes and whatever PDF/word doc/website I'm reading at the time.
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Old 2012-11-03, 05:16   Link #367
synaesthetic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npal View Post
Of course, there's talk online that Microsoft cancelled SP2 for 7 and is going to drop the whole SP business, but I suppose that remains to be seen.
W7 was basically SP3 for Vista, anyway.
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Old 2012-11-03, 09:26   Link #368
demonix
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I upgraded a few days ago, and it was pretty painless apart from a few issues (comodo internet security is pretty much broken even though I have the windows 8 compatible version installed, and with the lack of help from their support (I actually asked on their forums if I should install the 5.12 version that does work before or after, and they didn't respond for four days which by the time they did, I'd already installed the compatible version) I'll probably end up removing it and either using the built in protection or installing avast as long as they've fixed all the bugs, and I've got to reinstall the catalyst control centre).

I've also run into my first incompatible game (for the moment, unless I'm able to find out why it's going unresponsive from the get go).
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Old 2012-11-03, 09:57   Link #369
npal
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Originally Posted by demonix View Post
I upgraded a few days ago, and it was pretty painless apart from a few issues (comodo internet security is pretty much broken even though I have the windows 8 compatible version installed, and with the lack of help from their support (I actually asked on their forums if I should install the 5.12 version that does work before or after, and they didn't respond for four days which by the time they did, I'd already installed the compatible version) I'll probably end up removing it and either using the built in protection or installing avast as long as they've fixed all the bugs, and I've got to reinstall the catalyst control centre).

I've also run into my first incompatible game (for the moment, unless I'm able to find out why it's going unresponsive from the get go).
You should doublecheck the security vendor fora. MANY security suites or av say they are W8 compatible but come up with all sorts of problems (Avast in particular is still bluescreen heaven even with the 1474 update, they're still working on it.) For Avira, you need to go to Support to find out it's not W8 compatible yet.

I think Panda Cloud's URL filtering was doing something really weird with Chrome. After scanning with all sorts of antimalware software and finding nothing, it was either Panda or that 8gadgetpack thing (although it comes clean in virustotal's analysis, so I don't know). It was probably Panda Cloud though. I'm using Emsisoft Antimalware 7 along Malwarebytes PRO, it seems to work ok so far, no issues whatsoever, although to be on the safe side, I've excluded their processes from each other. (Just for the record, if anyone wants to try Emsisoft's Antimalware, would you kindly use this link to download it, so I can extend my trial? )

A friend is trying Panda Antivirus 2013, he doesn't see the problem I had with Panda Cloud, so maybe the normal Panda versions are working ok.

Bitdefender IS 2013 seemed to cause freezes to the system, a few but they are random, so I'm not sure if it was something on my end.

For anyone who has Kaspersky PURE 2.0, besides not allowing metro apps to run on my PC when I tested it, according to this article from Kaspersky's site, parts of the suite related to firewall and proactive protection are not supported on Windows 8. I've read somewhere on their forum that PURE 3.0 should have full Windows 8 support, but as it is, half the important stuff won't function. That of course means that my 6month trial is going to waste but whatever... That's not the case with Kaspersky's Antivirus and IS 2013 versions according to their site, but I haven't personally tested these.

I haven't tried anything else .
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Old 2012-11-03, 12:53   Link #370
monster
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Well, this is kind of nice: Free Xbox Music streaming is available for Windows 8/RT.
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Free streaming limited to 10 hours/month after 6 months; unlimited with paid subscription.
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Old 2012-11-04, 04:06   Link #371
Kimidori
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not sure if repost but I found a pretty intersting article here, it's about Microsoft being the sole distributor of applications that use the new Windows 8 interface features.

http://mollyrocket.com/casey/stream_0004.html
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Old 2012-11-04, 04:55   Link #372
npal
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not sure if repost but I found a pretty intersting article here, it's about Microsoft being the sole distributor of applications that use the new Windows 8 interface features.

http://mollyrocket.com/casey/stream_0004.html
They'd be shooting themselves in the foot. If all the production oriented/multitaskers and gamers jump ship, they'd be left with... an Apple crowd... Hmm, not sure MS doesn't want that, true. But if they do that, they're actually opening the door to Apple. If everything is perceived more or less the same, users could easily go from one company to the other. While that's good for competition, I'm not sure MS wants to be on the losing side, when they're basically a home PC monopoly.

As for me, if they force the Store, the whole Store and nothing but the Store so help us, God, like Apple, I'm switching to some friendly Linux distro like Ubuntu and getting myself a console. If I wanted a Mac, I'd have bought a Mac. Thing is I don't WANT a Mac. If I can't play my old and current games on Windows because MS only wants me to buy from the store, if I can't have my applications open the way I want to and not in a 2/3-1/3 way with no application actually WORKING in the background, I have no reason to keep Windows.

The only thing the Metro Screen is good for right now is an application launcher. I'm pretty sure they won't be changing that. Hopefully their glorified metrics will tell them just how many people use those crappy Metro apps.
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Old 2012-11-04, 06:45   Link #373
creb
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Frankly, if you need something beyond the now built-in-to-the-OS MS Security Essentials, you probably shouldn't be using a computer.

TL;DR: Your problems go bye bye if you don't continue using products made by companies that haven't figured out a (good), new revenue model to stay relevant when MS pulled the rug out from under them several years ago.

And, yes, while I like Windows 8, the biggest cause for concern isn't anything we're likely to see with Windows 8, which is a future where applications are all app-store driven. It won't happen overnight, but I imagine MS will slowly phase out the desktop and the old-way of application deployment in future versions of Windows, which will make me a sad panda.
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Old 2012-11-04, 07:12   Link #374
npal
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Frankly, if you need something beyond the now built-in-to-the-OS MS Security Essentials, you probably shouldn't be using a computer.
You must either enjoy your malware adventures or are into 110% safe browsing. Many people want decent protection from the mistakes they can't avoid, and some people don't even have the experience to avoid user-dependent malware. I hate to be a messenger of bad news but MS's Essentials detection rates are average at best, no matter what independent or homebrew tests you check.
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Old 2012-11-04, 10:38   Link #375
demonix
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Originally Posted by npal View Post
You should doublecheck the security vendor fora. MANY security suites or av say they are W8 compatible but come up with all sorts of problems (Avast in particular is still bluescreen heaven even with the 1474 update, they're still working on it.) For Avira, you need to go to Support to find out it's not W8 compatible yet.
That's where I found out about the 5.12 version of comodo internet security (if you look on their website, only the 5.10 version is available which isn't windows 8 compatible), and the only reason why I'm in the predicament that I'm in at the moment was because I asked in the thread that was dedicated to the windows 8 compatible version of comodo internet security if I should install the updated version before or after the upgrade to windows 8, and it took them four days to answer it by which time I had already updated the program and was only one day away from running the windows 8 upgrade.

The problem I have is that the program has to hook into the OS kernel, and since the OS was upgraded it can't hook in any more which might be what's causing my current problems (even they don't know why I'm getting the error I'm getting when the definitions were being updated), but I've still got a decent anti-virus solution available to me (heck it was included with the operating system).
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Old 2012-11-04, 10:49   Link #376
sa547
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Given the Win8 caveats, I feel that Win7 still has much to offer, especially for a seasoned power user like me who likes to go into the innards of the system. Which means I'll have to wait and see, as the last thing I need is to commit the same mistake I did while trying to use the problematic WinMe more than a decade ago, and Vista was too bloated to fix.

They got Win8 a bit too bleeding edge (ask me, how many people are actually using touch-screen monitors and interfaces?) and attempting to beat Apple at its game that it leaves out those using the keyboard and mouse, and worse, some gamers I know of aren't happy with 8 that they're reverting back to Win7 because of driver issues.

Damn, this could be another jinx. :| Win8 should've retained the things that made Win7 very effective than Vista.
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Old 2012-11-04, 12:51   Link #377
creb
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Originally Posted by npal View Post
You must either enjoy your malware adventures or are into 110% safe browsing. Many people want decent protection from the mistakes they can't avoid, and some people don't even have the experience to avoid user-dependent malware. I hate to be a messenger of bad news but MS's Essentials detection rates are average at best, no matter what independent or homebrew tests you check.
Well, yes. If you are dim-witted enough to intentionally drink water from a village well that its residents pour their refuse in, then you probably need more than your basic inoculations. Which is simply reiterating what I said earlier.

Virus software has become largely irrelevant beyond geek points these days. It's like chest-beating over what sandy-bridge cpu you have. On paper one might be "better" than another, but in most practical applications, it hardly matters with how stagnant the software industry has come to pushing the computing envelope for the majority of actual use these days.

As a more-than-a-hobbyist PC user of 25+ years, I could be overly cynical about this, but I don't think so.
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Old 2012-11-04, 13:34   Link #378
Vexx
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Many, many network engineers find this amusing ....
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Old 2012-11-04, 14:17   Link #379
monster
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Originally Posted by npal View Post
They'd be shooting themselves in the foot.
...
Hopefully their glorified metrics will tell them just how many people use those crappy Metro apps.
That, I think, is the key. Microsoft did not drop standalone DOS with Windows 95 until Windows proved to be popular with the 3.x family.

Even then, they made sure that the developer environment was mature enough that all of the programs (including games) that people would want could be developed for Windows.

As long as WinRT is not mature enough and/or Windows Store apps are not popular enough, there will always be a desktop in future versions of Windows.
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Given the Win8 caveats
What are the caveats of Windows 8?
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Old 2012-11-04, 20:53   Link #380
sa547
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What are the caveats of Windows 8
Man, you have to back-read to know them: software incompatibilities (including games developed for and up to DirectX 9.0c), and less driver and anti-virus support. I don't want to get something that doesn't address what the consumer actually needs until they're fulfilled.
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