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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 18
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... 16 14.68%
9 out of 10 : Excellent... 30 27.52%
8 out of 10 : Very Good... 29 26.61%
7 out of 10 : Good... 20 18.35%
6 out of 10 : Average... 5 4.59%
5 out of 10 : Below Average... 2 1.83%
4 out of 10 : Poor... 1 0.92%
3 out of 10 : Bad... 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad... 3 2.75%
1 out of 10 : Torturous... 3 2.75%
Voters: 109. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-11-04, 15:20   Link #141
germanturkey
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sugu overload. so, i can't wait to see sugou's reaction when Kirito shows up and kicks his ass... next week should be good. story driven action.
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Old 2012-11-04, 15:21   Link #142
Awrya
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I guess the question will be answered when BD comes out, though I believe his hand came close to the chest area (not touching directly).
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Old 2012-11-04, 15:43   Link #143
relentlessflame
 
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I guess the question will be answered when BD comes out, though I believe his hand came close to the chest area (not touching directly).
I don't really see why it will have changed on the BD, as there's no "censorship" here; they key point was to show her reaction as he approached her, and then him pulling his hand back before he touched her.
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Old 2012-11-04, 16:15   Link #144
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Suguha is a real babe.
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Old 2012-11-04, 16:34   Link #145
DragoZERO
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Suguha fan service to the max! Damn. They really sell the heroines too hard in this series.

Let's go for some good action next week!
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Old 2012-11-04, 16:43   Link #146
Dengar
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Originally Posted by chaos_alfa View Post
Not to be condescending, but do you think feminism means that the women need to be treated better than man? At least that is the impression I got from what you wrote. Sorry if I made a mistake.

But feminism means women should have equal rights to those of men.

I just wanted to correct this, because it seems some people on the internet think feminism is bad because they think it stands for something it does not.
The meaning of a word and what happens in reality are two completely different things though.

Because you can't EVER put a damsel in distress without someone crying sexism. When it happens to a guy, it's fine. Who's the one with a double standard now?

I'll say this again:

Asuna is not breaking character, she did not suddenly become weak.

Of course feminists apparently don't even follow the actual story and just see OH THE GIRL IS IN A CAGE IT MUST BE SEXISM.
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Old 2012-11-04, 16:59   Link #147
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Originally Posted by chaos_alfa View Post
Not to be condescending, but do you think feminism means that the women need to be treated better than man? At least that is the impression I got from what you wrote. Sorry if I made a mistake.

But feminism means women should have equal rights to those of men.



I just wanted to correct this, because it seems some people on the internet think feminism is bad because they think it stands for something it does not.
Well, what word do you want us to use for those that complain about Asuna's situation then?
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Old 2012-11-04, 17:25   Link #148
chaos_alfa
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Well, what word do you want us to use for those that complain about Asuna's situation then?
No, I didn't mean the word shouldn't be used for talking about Asuna's situation.

I just got the immersion Dengar didn't think the word feminism was about equality. But it seems I was wrong.

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*sigh* so much feminism. >_> What on earth is wrong with equality? Why does it have to be one or the other?
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Old 2012-11-04, 17:29   Link #149
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I don't really see why it will have changed on the BD, as there's no "censorship" here; they key point was to show her reaction as he approached her, and then him pulling his hand back before he touched her.
The BD has a shiny side that functions similar to a mirror.
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Old 2012-11-04, 17:51   Link #150
erneiz_hyde
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While I don't really agree with him, it's not like I don't understand Hako's complaints. He pointed out that Seanan McGuire article, which I think makes sense. His complain is probably similar with people complaining too much tsundere or too much moe or too much *insert cliche here*. On that sense, it's also understandable that some people are gritting about Suguha being introduced almost as if for the sake of being a failed love story.

In the world of fiction, there is such a thing as "overused tropes". For example, in the mistery genre, the clue about cigarette butts have become too commonplace that a lot of writer frowns their use, and/or considered "lazy writing" or "easy way out". And then things like "it's all a dream" or "flashes before his/her death", etc etc. The mere usage of these sometimes instantly blocks some people from reading it or giving it instant low scores, regardless of how well it's written. That's the "reality" of the world fiction, regardless of how one think it should be.

Also guys, I know some complaints might get a little too repetitive (often about different people mentioning the same thing, in that case, is it repetitive or valid view point I wonder?) and maybe unreasonable but perhaps you should relent a bit on defending this show. That last banter was almost as if you guys are promoting rape. Also, please don't bring the "realism" card too often. People know how harsh reality is, is it so wrong that they want at least their fiction less as harsh? Does bringing in realism in a story such an instant deal-maker in making good stories? Fact is there are lots of ways to tell good sensible stories without relying too much on these so called "reality" aspect.
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Old 2012-11-04, 18:17   Link #151
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
The meaning of a word and what happens in reality are two completely different things though.

Because you can't EVER put a damsel in distress without someone crying sexism. When it happens to a guy, it's fine. Who's the one with a double standard now?
Bingo, you hit it right on the nail. It's ironic that so many people claims to champion the cause of equal rights, yet in their zeal so many swings so far over to the other side that they themselves starts to discriminate against others.

Reverse discrimination is not any better.

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Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
The mere usage of these sometimes instantly blocks some people from reading it or giving it instant low scores, regardless of how well it's written. That's the "reality" of the world fiction, regardless of how one think it should be.
But then does the problem lie with the written work or the reader who's being dismissive?

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Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
That last banter was almost as if you guys are promoting rape.
Err, I don't think anyone, on either side of the debate, was saying anything remotely close to what you're saying.

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Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
People know how harsh reality is, is it so wrong that they want at least their fiction less as harsh? Does bringing in realism in a story such an instant deal-maker in making good stories? Fact is there are lots of ways to tell good sensible stories without relying too much on these so called "reality" aspect.
Of course not, but at the same time, don't whine about it if it IS part of the story, as it's also not an instant deal-breaker if it's there. Besides, there's always My Little Pony if this is too "dark" for you.
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Old 2012-11-04, 18:29   Link #152
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Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Spoiler for save space:
Well, at least rape isn't as over used as people dying in fiction as while there is now the threat of rape so is that rather pale compared to the 4000 or so people that already have died in this story. But people are so used to people dying in fiction that most doesn't even react to it anymore.
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Old 2012-11-04, 18:30   Link #153
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F me, Suguha is too fantastic for words. Though I understand why people dislike Recon, I can't help but root for the guy. Keep at it, buddy!

Also, this show brings yet another instance that causes me to flash back to my RO days. I was laughing my ass off when I saw the difference in logout times between the two. Kirito's logout/break lasted as long as my afk breaks (to eat and whatnot) did. The kind where some people wouldn't even notice you left!

*insert standard pervert voice here* Though I enjoyed every second of Sugu's break...

Kidding aside, I do plan on joining the discussion(s) currently going on as the arguments are both sound and compelling...I just haven't read everything yet!
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Old 2012-11-04, 18:44   Link #154
Awrya
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I don't really see why it will have changed on the BD, as there's no "censorship" here; they key point was to show her reaction as he approached her, and then him pulling his hand back before he touched her.
There wasn't any censorship, but compared to the normal version, BD version sometimes changes the angle of scenes a bit.
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Old 2012-11-04, 19:00   Link #155
erneiz_hyde
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Bingo, you hit it right on the nail. It's ironic that so many people claims to champion the cause of equal rights, yet in their zeal so many swings so far over to the other side that they themselves starts to discriminate against others.

Reverse discrimination is not any better.
It's been said time and again that it's not about the situation, but how often it is used. If a guy plays the "damsel in distress" role, it might be fine at first, but if it's used again and again it will reach saturation point eventually and more people will start complaining as well. However, this is why I don't really agree with calling the show "sexist" because it isn't really doing that (at least not to my definition of sexism).

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Err, I don't think anyone, on either side of the debate, was saying anything remotely close to what you're saying.
Of course, this wasn't actually happening and was just my stupid delusion, therefore I put in almost. One side is only arguing the use of rape in fiction is unacceptable, while the other side is arguing that "it's not that bad". Nothing remotely suggesting what I said.

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Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post
Of course not, but at the same time, don't whine about it if it IS part of the story, as it's also not an instant deal-breaker if it's there. Besides, there's always My Little Pony if this is too "dark" for you.
I meant to not use the "realism" card to defend an argument, for example: "X" is OK because it has "realism" isn't too much of an argument. It's better to explain how Sugou is such a bastard and how he takes advantage of Asuna in the context of the story. "Reality is like that as well" is such a lazy explanation because it doesn't explain anything.

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Originally Posted by Znail
Well, at least rape isn't as over used as people dying in fiction as while there is now the threat of rape so is that rather pale compared to the 4000 or so people that already have died in this story. But people are so used to people dying in fiction that most doesn't even react to it anymore.
Sad as one might think, that's the "reality" of it. Rape is generally less acceptable in fiction than death. Don't ask me why.
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Old 2012-11-04, 19:19   Link #156
ronelm2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Sad as one might think, that's the "reality" of it. Rape is generally less acceptable in fiction than death. Don't ask me why.
Because Rape is a Special Kind of Evil.
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Old 2012-11-04, 20:15   Link #157
Metaneo
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Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Of course, this wasn't actually happening and was just my stupid delusion, therefore I put in almost. One side is only arguing the use of rape in fiction is unacceptable, while the other side is arguing that "it's not that bad". Nothing remotely suggesting what I said.
Just putting it out there, not trying to contradict. I wasnt trying to make it sound like "it's not that bad." Whether or not it's used is up to the author, what matters to me is how it's used, not whether or not it is.

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Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Sad as one might think, that's the "reality" of it. Rape is generally less acceptable in fiction than death. Don't ask me why.
I think the reason why rape is "less acceptable" in fiction is because, when it happens in real life, nobody has control over it aside from the assailant. When it happens in fiction someone (usually the author) has to choose to use it, and as you can see, some people react very poorly to the fact that anyone is willing to use it in the first place, regardless of how it's handled.

And I think I'm done on this topic, I think we've derailed this thread enough, and I dont want to give relentless anymore modding work to do.

See y'all at the next episode. Ciao!
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Old 2012-11-04, 21:55   Link #158
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Sad as one might think, that's the "reality" of it. Rape is generally less acceptable in fiction than death. Don't ask me why.
Because people aren't used to it.

If rape had the same amount of entertainment media exposure as death, none of this would be an issue.
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Old 2012-11-04, 22:07   Link #159
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Well the Suguha fanservice continues to deliver. Of course overall increasing my sympathy for where things to be going for her. Going to have her fall for the same guy twice and get burned. With her only fallback option being Recon. Nice guy, but still feel like she'd be better off not ending up with anyone if he's the only choice left. Just feels like she's his keeper rather than a romance option.

Good that Kirito has enough cash left to upgrade equipment before going into this journey. Be nice if he could have held onto his old stuff, but that's how it goes.
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Old 2012-11-04, 22:18   Link #160
relentlessflame
 
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Because people aren't used to it.

If rape had the same amount of entertainment media exposure as death, none of this would be an issue.
I really don't want to contribute to this tangent, but I don't think I can agree with this at all. Death is seen by most as an inherent form of release; no matter the horrible circumstances surrounding the person's death, once they're dead it's over. For better or worse, it allows even us in the audience to find some sort of closure, despite the tragedy. And besides, every single one of us is going to die one day; it's all a matter of when and how. But a crime like rape is something the victim has to live with for the rest of their lives, and can be completely disruptive to their psychological, emotional, and physical well-being. It's like having a scar people can't really see that will likely never full heal and can always cause pain. So although I can agree that it's twisted in a way that people have gotten "used to" death as a concept in media, I sure as hell hope that we never, ever "get used to" rape no matter how often it's portrayed in "entertainment media". There is nothing "entertaining" about it, and should be universally deplored and treated with the utmost contempt and scorn.

I really, really want to plead with everyone to stop this rape conversation because Sugou is not a rapist; he has not raped Asuna, and despite his creepy insinuations has shown no signs that he really will do so. That he insinuates that he might fantasize about it is already bad enough (whether he's just saying that to taunt her or not). He's a horrible character holding hundreds captive and manipulating memories so he can sell the technique to the highest bidder. He's also trying to marry into the Asuna family so he can take control of the family business (also purely for his own gain), has something of a god-complex, and enjoys messing with his "betrothed" who utterly despises him to the core. All that should give us plenty to talk about. But this "rape is less acceptable in fiction because people just aren't used to it" thing just makes my blood boil. I think that is trivializing the issue a whole lot more than anything that is or isn't portrayed in the show.
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