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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 18
10 out of 10: Near Perfect... 16 14.68%
9 out of 10 : Excellent... 30 27.52%
8 out of 10 : Very Good... 29 26.61%
7 out of 10 : Good... 20 18.35%
6 out of 10 : Average... 5 4.59%
5 out of 10 : Below Average... 2 1.83%
4 out of 10 : Poor... 1 0.92%
3 out of 10 : Bad... 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad... 3 2.75%
1 out of 10 : Torturous... 3 2.75%
Voters: 109. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-11-05, 05:46   Link #181
Seiryuu
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Originally Posted by Awrya View Post
Well, Kirito has a week to rescue Asuna until she's married off, while SAO took 2 years to clear. If they went with SAO pace, where several months passed off screen, the second arc would be over in two episodes.


Is it just me or is her upper body position a bit weird compared to the lower body?
Don't know if anyone said this and don't have time to check, but I think you're being thrown off by the frills on her dress.

Anyway, I too liked this ep and feel bad for Sugu as well as Recon. Still, I'm surprised that Sugu has Asuna beat in one area, partly because she's two or three years younger and partly because her normal clothes make her look so flat. We got a good view earlier, but I didn't expect that much.
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Old 2012-11-05, 08:43   Link #182
~Yami~
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wow... slow development but it's pretty decent...

we got little grasp about what's happening in Sylph territory and some alliance wars...
and looks like Asuna is someone who can't be underestimated at all... never expect she will give such a positive response when Sugou told her about Kirito... She really know that Kirito won't give up no her and that's what encourages her to do something as well... such a beautiful mutual understanding

about Suguha... I think this is more depressing because we know the truth is coming near.. (thanks God she didn't open Kirito's room)
and her fanservice.... oh wow! Asuna really got a nice challenger because Sugu looks sexier than her...
careful Senkou-Asuna...

can't help but must wait for next episode with anxious and excited feeling
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Old 2012-11-05, 08:48   Link #183
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Originally Posted by ~Yami~ View Post
never expect she will give such a positive response when Sugou told her about Kirito... She really know that Kirito won't give up no her and that's what encourages her to do something as well... such a beautiful mutual understanding
It's more like Sugou is really stupid for not realizing the psychological effect that not knowing was having on her. He hasn't really tried to look at this from her perspective at all. This disconnect is emphasized in the rest of their conversation.
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Old 2012-11-05, 09:51   Link #184
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
There's always Klein... but the age difference still makes it creepy.

It's starting to look like she'll have to swing both ways.
I'm willing to go with Klein on this one. Just the reaction from Kirito alone would make it hilarious enough to be worth it .
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Old 2012-11-05, 10:32   Link #185
noobita
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So, how is Kirito going to beat a freaking GM?

Sometime I wonder, why would the writer pitted the main character with a invincible cheater? It is damn obvious that the battle going to be one-sided until the plot kick in to save Kirito, which is going to makes the final battle somewhat "uninteresting".
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Old 2012-11-05, 10:40   Link #186
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Originally Posted by noobita View Post
So, how is Kirito going to beat a freaking GM?

Sometime I wonder, why would the writer pitted the main character with a invincible cheater? It is damn obvious that the battle going to be one-sided until the plot kick in to save Kirito, which is going to makes the final battle somewhat "uninteresting".
It's obvious.

Kirito will negotiate with Sugou - in exchange for Asuna's freedom, Kirito will teach Sugou his secret for harem-building, thus finally allowing Sugou to realize his secret desire to build a loli harem, and led him to abandon all his evil ways.



Or you can speculate/discuss it in the appropriate thread, you can even decide if you want to be spoiled or not
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Old 2012-11-05, 11:25   Link #187
GoldenLand
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Because you can't EVER put a damsel in distress without someone crying sexism. When it happens to a guy, it's fine. Who's the one with a double standard now?

I'll say this again:

Asuna is not breaking character, she did not suddenly become weak.

Of course feminists apparently don't even follow the actual story and just see OH THE GIRL IS IN A CAGE IT MUST BE SEXISM.
It's true that Asuna isn't breaking character and isn't weak just because she's been locked up, and if anyone is saying she is, I disagree with them strongly. But, that doesn't mean that everyone who is unhappy about her being held captive is saying she's weak and OOC. Some people may be unhappy that a badass like Asuna is now not getting any action scenes. Some may be unhappy at seeing yet another series featuring a locked-up heroine as the plot motivation. And some are clearly unhappy that Asuna's facing a combo of being locked up and being sexually harassed.

Things in fiction do not occur in isolation; when you look at things only in their own series, they will look different from the way they look in the context of other series.

For example, think of Suguha and her love for Kirito. The imouto-in-love-with-big-brother trope has been used so much over the years that now many people (including people at these forums) just groan in boredom when they see it. But years ago, when the original canon for this series was written, the trope probably wasn't so over-used.

It's a bit like that with sexism. Context matters. Individually, if series A has, say, supernaturally powered cool men who fight and get to do interesting things, and women who stay quietly in the kitchen and cook, it's not really a problem. But if series A is in the company of series B, C, D, E, F, G and so forth, which all do the same thing, then there's a sexist trend there.
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Old 2012-11-05, 12:05   Link #188
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Originally Posted by noobita View Post
So, how is Kirito going to beat a freaking GM?

Sometime I wonder, why would the writer pitted the main character with a invincible cheater? It is damn obvious that the battle going to be one-sided until the plot kick in to save Kirito, which is going to makes the final battle somewhat "uninteresting".
My guess is that since arriving at the top of Yggdrasil will be such a huge ordeal, it'll probably be documented or televised or something. And then he'll accidentally spill the beans to Kirito and everyone will know. Common downfall for evil masterminds with huge egos.
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Old 2012-11-05, 12:26   Link #189
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Well, Kirito survived the collapse of one virtual world...he could always threaten to kill everyone in-game and destroy the ALO franchise from within...but I bet he'll find a more peaceful way, perhaps by challenging the fairy king to a DUEL! like with Heathcliff. although he technically lost that one xD
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Old 2012-11-05, 12:37   Link #190
kyp275
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Originally Posted by GoldenLand View Post
Things in fiction do not occur in isolation; when you look at things only in their own series, they will look different from the way they look in the context of other series.
Sounds like a personal problem to me.

If someone have grievances towards perceived negative trends of characterization in anime or literature in general, by all means voice them, in the proper forum and/or thread. Every story should be judged individually on their own merit.

Personally, what's far more annoying than the damsel-in-distress setting is the drove of people who inevitably shows up right afterwards to complain about it.
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Old 2012-11-05, 13:52   Link #191
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well, judging by the way Suguha looked in this ep... perhaps as soon as Sugou sets eyes on her he'll give up his evil plans for Asuna...
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Old 2012-11-05, 13:57   Link #192
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well, judging by the way Suguha looked in this ep... perhaps as soon as Sugou sets eyes on her he'll give up his evil plans for Asuna...
Haha, indeed. And hopefully Recon will find some other girl that strikes his fancy, because otherwise Suguha's going to break his heart into dozens of little pieces. Recon has traveled so deep into the Friend Zone that he might find Takumu from Accel World there.
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Old 2012-11-05, 14:01   Link #193
Awrya
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Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
Well, Kirito survived the collapse of one virtual world...he could always threaten to kill everyone in-game and destroy the ALO franchise from within...but I bet he'll find a more peaceful way, perhaps by challenging the fairy king to a DUEL! like with Heathcliff. although he technically lost that one xD
This isn't a death game, if he kills players they simply respawn. I doubt one player going on a PK spree is enough to make players quit ALO, it is more likely a faction or two join hands and PK him in return. Last time I watched SAO, Kirito doesn't have some supernatural ability which allows him to kill real life players from within the virtual world.

Fairy King = Sugou = admin/GM, in my years of playing I never met an admin
He doesn't even have to accept, Sugou could simply ban his account

Edit: @Casey True words.
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Old 2012-11-05, 14:20   Link #194
Methuselah
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Originally Posted by Awrya View Post
This isn't a death game, if he kills players they simply respawn. I doubt one player going on a PK spree is enough to make players quit ALO, it is more likely a faction or two join hands and PK him in return. Last time I watched SAO, Kirito doesn't have some supernatural ability which allows him to kill real life players from within the virtual world.

Fairy King = Sugou = admin/GM, in my years of playing I never met an admin
He doesn't even have to accept, Sugou could simply ban his account

Edit: @Casey True words.
I met my first GM in Heroes of Newerth. My team and I all focused on him and he raged concede. So sad. XD
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Old 2012-11-05, 14:26   Link #195
Trajan
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I don't find the "damsel in distress" trope to be sexist as used here. Asuna is planning her own escape, and upon hearing about Kirito, it's not as if she gives up and resolves to wait for him. Putting her in a cage is simply the result of the author's need to separate the protagonist from his love. Now, it could have been handled better, and Asuna could have been given an independent story-line that afforded her a chance to interact with someone other than Sugou, but this is a very simply-told story, and multiple alternating plots aren't to be expected.

However, as a whole the series itself is unabashedly sexist towards its female characters. None of the main girls are the agents of their own happiness. They (Sachi, Liz, Silicia, Asuna, Suguha, even Yui) have all required a man (our hero) to provide them with the happiness that they cannot find in themselves. It's really the old "a woman needs a man in order to be happy" trope. Of course, add to that the usual female-only fan service, and it's easy to see the double standard in the treatment of characters based on their gender. Maybe the later episodes/LNs get away from this, but so far the series has been your standard "haremish" anime, where the female characters are sexualized and the males are not, and the females are largely defined by how they relate to the male protagonist.
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Old 2012-11-05, 15:10   Link #196
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Originally Posted by noobita View Post
So, how is Kirito going to beat a freaking GM?

Sometime I wonder, why would the writer pitted the main character with a invincible cheater? It is damn obvious that the battle going to be one-sided until the plot kick in to save Kirito, which is going to makes the final battle somewhat "uninteresting".
I think the creator of the SAO program will come in help out Kirito in the end. Forgot the dude name but I remember him being somewhat fair to the gamer's to his world.
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Old 2012-11-05, 15:46   Link #197
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I think the creator of the SAO program will come in help out Kirito in the end. Forgot the dude name but I remember him being somewhat fair to the gamer's to his world.
Kayaba Akihiko is the name.
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Old 2012-11-05, 15:53   Link #198
Bombo
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Good episode and I like the way for ending episode with many players ...I can't wait for next week .
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Old 2012-11-05, 15:54   Link #199
TimeSkip
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Originally Posted by noobita View Post
So, how is Kirito going to beat a freaking GM?

Sometime I wonder, why would the writer pitted the main character with a invincible cheater? It is damn obvious that the battle going to be one-sided until the plot kick in to save Kirito, which is going to makes the final battle somewhat "uninteresting".
Actually, he doesn't need to beat the GM. He has other options

1. Take Asuna's pictures showing her in the cage. (better quality than the pic he has)
2. If he can talk to her but cannot get her out of the cage, he can take video of her telling the GM's evil plan.

He can give this evidence to her father or the police. But doing so wouldn't be as cool as beating that psycho, right?

Even though Asuna now knows the door code, she may not try to escape because she cannot log out anyway. Since she knows kirito is alive, she may want to wait for him until the last minute. If he doesn't come, she will try to escape by herself.
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Old 2012-11-06, 03:00   Link #200
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However, as a whole the series itself is unabashedly sexist towards its female characters. None of the main girls are the agents of their own happiness. They (Sachi, Liz, Silicia, Asuna, Suguha, even Yui) have all required a man (our hero) to provide them with the happiness that they cannot find in themselves. It's really the old "a woman needs a man in order to be happy" trope. Of course, add to that the usual female-only fan service, and it's easy to see the double standard in the treatment of characters based on their gender. Maybe the later episodes/LNs get away from this, but so far the series has been your standard "haremish" anime, where the female characters are sexualized and the males are not, and the females are largely defined by how they relate to the male protagonist.
I think, though, at least half of this is just the protagonist orientation, particularly in the opening arc. Let's say you re-told the whole story around a female heroine (whether Asuna, or a female Kirito-replacement). The structure of many of the episodes would still basically be the same: encounter character(s), help solve their problems, deliver the moral of the story, and move on. This is the same sort of episodic format often used in sci-fi TV shows (like Star Trek, for example). In the first arc in particular, we don't really see any of the other characters outside the context of the protagonist. But it's not as if either Liz or Silica just sat there unable to do anything after having met Kirito, or like Suguha wasn't already pursuing her own happiness in ALO before she met Kirito in the game. (And it's not like Sachi meeting Kirito really did her that much good in the end...) But of course, their character is developed in the time spent with the protagonist, because that's the main perspective we're following. All the characters in the first arc exist only as they relate to the protagonist. ALO does open the story up a fair bit more to tell the story from multiple perspectives, so we can see that Asuna isn't just waiting for Kirito, and that Suguha becoming a renegade wasn't just for Kirito's sake and so on. The protagonist is certainly the catalyst, but I don't think they are really dependant on "a man" for their happiness all in all. We in the audience are just dependant on the protagonist to meet the characters so we can learn their stories. (And even so, a female character choosing to depend on a man, and having them depend on her, as Asuna did with Kirito, may be a trope but I don't think it's in and of itself sexist. Otherwise, the only choice the female character is not allowed to make is to choose a male companion!)

And that aside, regarding fanservice, I've read a number of comments from female SAO viewers who find Kirito attractive, among other male characters in the show. So I'm not sure if there's no fanservice there, but I guess I'm not sure I'd know what to look for. If the show added more "obvious" male fanservice (like, I suppose, bishies, various states of undress, homoerotic innuendo, etc.????) would that "balance the scales" in your mind? While it's clear that this is a show written primarily at a male audience, I know a lot female anime fans whose favoured content is this sort of shounen work anyway.

In the end, if this show is "unabashedly sexist" for the reasons you outline, then I think it's a measuring stick that an awful lot (the majority?) of anime (and entertainment of all sorts) fall short of one way or another. That doesn't necessarily mean that people can't dislike it or rally against it, but I'm not sure if I'd use this as the poster child. The thing people seem to be complaining most about is Asuna's "dis-empowerment" caused by her present situation, and if that's not particularly sexist, then I'm not sure there's a stronger argument about the rest, beyond "it could do more to give the other characters more agency" (which I don't disagree with at all, incidentally -- but perhaps that can happen after the crisis is over).


Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeSkip View Post
Even though Asuna now knows the door code, she may not try to escape because she cannot log out anyway. Since she knows kirito is alive, she may want to wait for him until the last minute. If he doesn't come, she will try to escape by herself.
Yes, the key thing is that she needs a plan beyond just getting out of the door. She either has to wait for him to slip something that can be used as an opportunity (and with the way he loves to run his mouth, that's probably just a matter of time), or she has to wait for someone else to arrive to help her form a plan. As was said, even Kirito just showing up there doesn't change anything on its own, it just allows him to confirm that it's really her and that she's in there. It's just the starting point.
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