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Old 2012-11-05, 07:18   Link #1541
StratoSpear
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Is it really that hard to provide some links...? I 'unno... just something for us to read and actually acknowledge?
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Old 2012-11-05, 07:48   Link #1542
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StratoSpear View Post
Is it really that hard to provide some links...? I 'unno... just something for us to read and actually acknowledge?
I assume it’s hard for him coz he can’t provide any.

It’s funny though. IIRC, the first posters who argue about "Delta Plus being Gundam or not" is Zeroexia & me (Destined was talking about Delta Kai atm). While Zeroexia & me already reach some understanding, Destined still insists that Delta Plus is technically & officially a Gundam. And now, after being countered again and again, he basically begs us not to bother him again about it. (while at the same time, he can’t provide any solid evidence of what he’s claiming). It’s hilarious.
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Old 2012-11-05, 11:06   Link #1543
Destined_Fate
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You would need the game, I doubt there are any screenshots out that I could even find considering many Gundam games are Japanese only and my keyboard can't do Japanese text.

Furthermore I really don't care weather you believe me or not. I know that the game side officially recognizes it as a Gundam and that's good enough for me.
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Old 2012-11-05, 12:03   Link #1544
Rising Dragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
I already explained, the entire game industry side of Gundam all support that the Delta Plus is a Gundam. It's a Gundam as far as the games side is concerned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
And you don't get to decide what does or doesn't count. I've yet to see you provide screenies either that say "This is not a Gundam no matter what and that's the end of it". In fact the only thing you have is that it just doesn't MENTION that it is or isn't a Gundam.
The thing is, neither do you. I'm merely going by official media on what to label it. Since you wanted me to provide something concrete... 1 2 3

Notice how all of them do not use the term "Gundam" in the Delta Plus's full name, or how the paragraph of text doesn't say "デルタプラスガンダム," "Deruta Purasu Gandamu", or Delta Plus Gundam.

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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
One example, Overworld.

With that this is over. You can choose to believe the toy line, I'll go with the game line.
So essentially your only real proof is the previously-mentioned ability of Marida's that only activates against Gundams and the Delta Plus. That's an easter egg, acknowledging her hate of Gundams and how she thought the Delta Plus was one, not confirmation that it's a Gundam.

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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
You would need the game, I doubt there are any screenshots out that I could even find considering many Gundam games are Japanese only and my keyboard can't do Japanese text.

Furthermore I really don't care weather you believe me or not. I know that the game side officially recognizes it as a Gundam and that's good enough for me.
If the game labels it as "Delta Plus Gundam" then fine, I'll acknowledge it. All you need for that is a screenshot; that's not terribly hard to do. Don't even worry if it's in Japanese; most of us know how to figure out "Gundam" in Japanese text, even those of us who can't translate giant paragraphs can do that.

But if you can't even provide this, then all you're doing is backpedaling and trying to cover your tracks--again--because I proved you wrong--again. I told you before, I'm not going to allow others to spread misinformation around; Gundam has enough of that as it is.

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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Furthermore you're getting way too worked up over this. I already said that we have to agree to disagree on this because different official sources don't even agree on it. There's no reason to get overly hostile or jump down my throat because no matter what you aren't going to change my mind and since you're so dead set that it can't possibly be a Gundam your wont change your mind either.

End of Line.
Please don't act like we're getting hostile, because we're not. There's a very clear difference between that and what this is.
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Old 2012-11-05, 12:31   Link #1545
Kirayuki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
One example, Overworld.

With that this is over. You can choose to believe the toy line, I'll go with the game line.
Taken from Overworld profile of Delta Plus


Where it is even mentioned ? The name itself is Delta Plus in the profile. And not even a single mention about it being a Gundam in the paragraph that describe it.
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Old 2012-11-05, 14:01   Link #1546
Destined_Fate
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It's an in game thing and that's only the top. You're more than free to translate all of it if you want to make this into a dispute instead of just agreeing to disagree. After all a screeni of just the top in complete Japanese isn't all that great of a source. I'll wait.

Oh, and you should also do Delta Gundam and Delta Gundam Kai as well while you're at it since there seems to be a dispute over whether they're Gundams or not as well too despite them being far more obvious than the Delta Plus and even bearing the Gundam name. Take your time, no need to rush.

As I said, agree to disagree, Rising. Delta Plus is and isn't officially a Gundam depending which official source you check.
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Old 2012-11-05, 14:18   Link #1547
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Oh, and you should also do Delta Gundam and Delta Gundam Kai as well while you're at it since there seems to be a dispute over whether they're Gundams or not to despite them being far more obvious than the Delta Plus. Take your time, no need to rush.
The Delta Gundam and Gundam Delta Kai are officially recognized in media as being Gundams. It's not an issue--there's confirmation that they're Gundams whereas there isn't for the Delta Plus. If you'd like some proof of that as well, feel free to look over these: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Compared to other official sources for the Delta Plus, such as... 1 2

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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
As I said, agree to disagree, Rising. Delta Plus is and isn't officially a Gundam depending which official source you check.
No. It's not "is and isn't", it just isn't. Simple as that.
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Old 2012-11-05, 14:40   Link #1548
Kirayuki
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
It's an in game thing and that's only the top. You're more than free to translate all of it if you want to make this into a dispute instead of just agreeing to disagree. After all a screeni of just the top in complete Japanese isn't all that great of a source. I'll wait.
You are the one who mentioned about the source coming from the game and when I asked it you said it's from Overworld, yet you deny that own info from the game database and claimed it as not that great as a source.

Or let me ask you this way, What things are considered as reliable/official sources for you?. Before you are saying Games again, be sure to also mention the specific game and not to include Overworld again otherwise we will just be going in circles. Clearly, it's not Overworld because apparently you denied the info from it already. Tell me every Gundam game that has Delta Plus in it, I will gladly put the screenshot from the game itself.
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Old 2012-11-05, 14:52   Link #1549
zeroexia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post

No. It's not "is and isn't", it just isn't. Simple as that.
^ this

Official is official, meaning it's either officially a Gundam or unofficially a Gundam.
Now whether or not a person wishes to identify a mobile suit as a Gundam is up to them because as stated before, Gundam is merely a name. However if it doesn't officially contain "Gundam" or ガンダム in its name, then it isn't officially a Gundam. (emphasis on official)

IMHO, the anime and then gunpla models have higher canon than video games. (Although as pointed out before, Delta Plus does not contain ガンダム in its name in games either.)

Now, it may not be officially a Gundam but you can always consider it in your heart a Gundam.

I motion to close this argument. It's been solved already and the vast majority, probably all but one, has agreed on what defines an official Gundam but we also agree that individuals can determine their own unofficial Gundams.

Good. Let's stop the aggravation in here and move on.

/debate

(On a sidenote, it seems like I keep on seeing Destined Fate saying something which people disprove with facts. Then Destined Fate rejects said facts, refuses to provide his/her own evidence and refuses to "quit", causing the entire thread to devolve into everybody attacking Destined Fate. Maybe next time, we should stop after providing all the facts and ignore Destined Fate if he/she repeats the same process. It would make everybody's lives easier and happier. Gundam isn't about arguing. )

And remember what Char said "Nobody likes to admit their mistakes due to their own youth but I guess this time I simply have no choice. "

Last edited by zeroexia; 2012-11-05 at 15:10.
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Old 2012-11-05, 16:10   Link #1550
Rising Dragon
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Originally Posted by zeroexia View Post
(On a sidenote, it seems like I keep on seeing Destined Fate saying something which people disprove with facts. Then Destined Fate rejects said facts, refuses to provide his/her own evidence and refuses to "quit", causing the entire thread to devolve into everybody attacking Destined Fate. Maybe next time, we should stop after providing all the facts and ignore Destined Fate if he/she repeats the same process. It would make everybody's lives easier and happier. Gundam isn't about arguing. )
Sorry, but no. New members and such may not know of any agreement to completely ignore a troublemaker, and if we don't crack down on misinformation in favor of ignoring a problem, then newcomers and the like will simply take the misinformation for fact. So if Destined_Fate and others keep presenting false information as fact, I will continue to keep people informed that it's otherwise.

I'm not attacking Destined_Fate for this, but I can't speak for others.
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Old 2012-11-05, 17:31   Link #1551
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I'm actually glad that people like Rising Dragon take the time to point out any misinformation that gets posted. See, I am a newbie here and I get pretty much all of my Gundam information from these boards. If no one points out that the information is wrong then how am I supposed to know?
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Old 2012-11-05, 18:17   Link #1552
zeroexia
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I'm actually glad that people like Rising Dragon take the time to point out any misinformation that gets posted. See, I am a newbie here and I get pretty much all of my Gundam information from these boards. If no one points out that the information is wrong then how am I supposed to know?
I guess I'm being misunderstood. What I meant was that if misinformation was given, then it should be corrected. Of course, I encourage the disapproval of false information.

However
if the one who gave said misinformation refuses to accept the correct information after repeated attempts, we should then proceed to stop arguing with that individual over something has already been proven. There should be a point where it is not necessary to continue answering to a person who refuses to accept the truth.

It's up to each person when such a point is reached but I merely wanted to note a possible solution to a possible dilemma so that the situation doesn't degrade further.
(Imagine if all that was in this thread was about whether or not Delta+ is a Gundam.)
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Old 2012-11-05, 19:34   Link #1553
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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However if the one who gave said misinformation refuses to accept the correct information after repeated attempts, we should then proceed to stop arguing with that individual over something has already been proven. There should be a point where it is not necessary to continue answering to a person who refuses to accept the truth.

It's up to each person when such a point is reached but I merely wanted to note a possible solution to a possible dilemma so that the situation doesn't degrade further.
(Imagine if all that was in this thread was about whether or not Delta+ is a Gundam.)
I really appreciate your suggestion of bringing this thread into a more “enjoyable atmosphere”, but I have to agree with Rising Dragon about this.

Well, “the path to the truth is a rocky one” they say. So, I think any poster with the knowledge (like Rising Dragon, Kirayuki, myself and others) are welcomed to disprove any wrong information given by a certain poster. Especially if that certain poster insists that the wrong information is the truth and keeps on posting it without providing a shred of evidence. Like Rising Dragon said, this will prevent the newbies from acquiring wrong information from this forum (especially this thread). IMO, the “correction” has to keep going as long as that certain member keeps on posting false information on this thread. Please note that (in this case) we’re not meant to personally attack Destined Fate, we are basically “attacking” the false information that he keeps on posting by asking him for a solid evidence of what he claims to be fact (which he fails to provide so far).
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Old 2012-11-06, 00:00   Link #1554
zeroexia
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
I really appreciate your suggestion of bringing this thread into a more “enjoyable atmosphere”, but I have to agree with Rising Dragon about this.

Well, “the path to the truth is a rocky one” they say. So, I think any poster with the knowledge (like Rising Dragon, Kirayuki, myself and others) are welcomed to disprove any wrong information given by a certain poster. Especially if that certain poster insists that the wrong information is the truth and keeps on posting it without providing a shred of evidence. Like Rising Dragon said, this will prevent the newbies from acquiring wrong information from this forum (especially this thread). IMO, the “correction” has to keep going as long as that certain member keeps on posting false information on this thread. Please note that (in this case) we’re not meant to personally attack Destined Fate, we are basically “attacking” the false information that he keeps on posting by asking him for a solid evidence of what he claims to be fact (which he fails to provide so far).
Hmm, I understand. It is far worst to have those new to Gundam to have misinformation and be misguided. There's enough misinformed people as it is. Keep up the vigilance.
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Old 2012-11-06, 00:56   Link #1555
Destined_Fate
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I didn't say rule out Overworld. I said that what you provided didn't even say anything. If you want to use it against me the least you can do is translate it fully, if not than I suggest not even bringing in material that you can't even read. Besides, why should I even provide more games if you can't even get one down?

Ignore Obelisk, he has never agreed with me on any issue even when I have provided irrefutable evidence that supported my claims and completely dismantled his own in the past. Multiple times in fact and it lead to him breaking down and screaming profanities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
The Delta Gundam and Gundam Delta Kai are officially recognized in media as being Gundams. It's not an issue--there's confirmation that they're Gundams whereas there isn't for the Delta Plus. If you'd like some proof of that as well, feel free to look over these: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Compared to other official sources for the Delta Plus, such as... 1 2



No. It's not "is and isn't", it just isn't. Simple as that.
As I said, I disagree and officially it is and isn't a Gundam depending where you check.

Just because you say no it isn't doesn't change that and as I said we aren't going to convince each other otherwise thus this whole conversation is pointless and has been beaten to death already.

Oh, calling others you don't agree with "troublemakers"? Shame on you Rising, you're already throwing mud just because you cannot refute the fact that other official sources do consider the Delta Plus a Gundam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroexia View Post
I guess I'm being misunderstood. What I meant was that if misinformation was given, then it should be corrected. Of course, I encourage the disapproval of false information.

However
if the one who gave said misinformation refuses to accept the correct information after repeated attempts, we should then proceed to stop arguing with that individual over something has already been proven. There should be a point where it is not necessary to continue answering to a person who refuses to accept the truth.

It's up to each person when such a point is reached but I merely wanted to note a possible solution to a possible dilemma so that the situation doesn't degrade further.
(Imagine if all that was in this thread was about whether or not Delta+ is a Gundam.)
That's the thing, it hasn't been proven and Rising hasn't even proved any evidence other than "MG says otherwise because it doesn't have Gundam in its name thus it can't be a Gundam because Gundams must be called Gundams in their name." Rising even was against the Delta and Delta Kai being Gundams earlier than backtracked and is now singling out the Delta Plus just because it's the middle child that doesn't have the name Gundam tacked on despite the fact that it's just grey and upgraded Delta Gundam and its data was later used to develop the Delta Gundam Kai which is also a Gundam.

Delta series = Gundams. Hyaku Shiki was supposed to be a Gundam as well but issues resulted in a half completed MS with the Gundam name dropped despite for all intents and purposes it pretty much being a Gundam anyway as it was created to be one and was supposed to sport the Gundam name.

Delta Gundam(Gundam) - > Delta Plus(Upgraded and highly improved Delta Gundam, Gundam) - > Delta Gundam Kai(Gundam)

If the Delta Plus isn't a Gundam than neither is the Delta Gundam which clearly isn't the case.

Last edited by Destined_Fate; 2012-11-06 at 01:10.
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Old 2012-11-06, 01:13   Link #1556
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Just because you say no it isn't doesn't change that and as I said we aren't going to convince each other otherwise thus this whole conversation is pointless and has been beaten to death already.
It’s not pointless if the goal is to correct someone who keeps on posting false information .

In this case, the false info is that “Delta Plus is officially a Gundam” which is not true according to various legitimate sources already provided by Rising Dragon and Kirayuki.

It’s not a matter of personal opinion or taste. It’s just plain wrong. The one that says "no" is not us. It's the official sources.
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Old 2012-11-06, 01:13   Link #1557
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Again with your whole "It must be named Gundam to be Gundam" while you ignore the fact that the Delta Plus is literally the Delta Gundam with a fresh coat of paint. Hence the name Delta Plus, it's an upgrade over the Delta Gundam. There's no need to say Delta Plus Gundam since that's redundant and it's quite obvious that the Delta Plus is a Gundam which looks nearly identical, other than just being vastly better, to the Delta Gundam.

You aren't one to talk, I already explained the reasoning behind why it's a Gundam multiple times yet you've ignored all of it and continue going with "No Gundam in its name thus it can't be a Gundam" excuse.

I don't care if you disagree either, doesn't change that officially it is and isn't a Gundam. The only one trying to convince anyone here is you since I'm more than satisfied with the industries stance that it is and isn't a Gundam since not even those Officially agree over it despite the fact that it's obviously a Gundam, was based off a previous Gundam, and a Gundam was than developed from it.

Accusing me of lying now? How low will you go over a simple disagreement? You're the one turning this out to anything more than it is and you're the one that has started hurling insults at me just because you don't agree. Show a little tact will you?
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Old 2012-11-06, 01:15   Link #1558
Rising Dragon
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As I said, I disagree and officially it is and isn't a Gundam depending where you check.
No, it's not. Everywhere you check you'll see it listed as the MSN-001A1 Delta Plus, not the MSN-001A1 Delta Plus Gundam. Every single source we've discovered has contained this simple fact; it is not a Gundam. Saying that it officially is and isn't a Gundam is contradictory to this and itself, and is furthermore a lie.

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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Just because you say no it isn't doesn't change that and as I said we aren't going to convince each other otherwise thus this whole conversation is pointless and has been beaten to death already.
It is pretty hard to agree when you do the online equivalent of covering your ears and going "la la la I can't hear you." What you are doing is trying to put forth your single opinion, an incorrect statement, as a fact. Lying, basically. I don't care if you consider the Delta Plus to be a Gundam. It is not, and stop trying to convince others it is. Constantly trying to put forth lies and such, which is surely deliberate on your part, makes you nothing more than a troll.

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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Oh, calling others you don't agree with "troublemakers"? Shame on you Rising, you're already throwing mud just because you cannot refute the fact that other official sources do consider the Delta Plus a Gundam.
For the troublemaker bit, refer to my previous statement about being a troll. It is not "throwing mud" if it is true; you are constantly lying and trying to convince others of something that is inherently false. As for official sources, I and others have proven so far that in official media concerning the show, and the model kits, AND the games, that it is not referred to as a Gundam. You, on the other hand, have not provided a single source saying that it is. I am not the one throwing mud. You are.

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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
That's the thing, it hasn't been proven and Rising hasn't even proved any evidence other than "MG says otherwise because it doesn't have Gundam in its name thus it can't be a Gundam because Gundams must be called Gundams in their name." Rising even was against the Delta and Delta Kai being Gundams earlier than backtracked and is now singling out the Delta Plus just because it's the middle child that doesn't have the name Gundam tacked on despite the fact that it's just grey and upgraded Delta Gundam and its data was later used to develop the Delta Gundam Kai which is also a Gundam.
There you go again with the lying--it has been proven that it's not a Gundam and you simply refuse to see it. I've proven with evidence beyond that of the models. Hell, now you're lying even further about what I've said: I've only brought up the Delta Gundam and Gundam Delta Kai once before, confirming that they are Gundams; now you're trying to say that I at one point said I didn't? Okay then. Let's see this post of mine. Go ahead and quote it for me; you can easily tell via timestamp that I wouldn't have edited it. And if you want to get technical, the Delta Gundam Kai was developed from the Delta Gundam, not the Delta Plus.

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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Delta series = Gundams. Hyaku Shiki was supposed to be a Gundam as well but issues resulted in a half completed MS with the Gundam name dropped despite for all intents and purposes it pretty much being a Gundam anyway as it was created to be one and was supposed to sport the Gundam name.

If the Delta Plus isn't a Gundam than neither is the Delta Gundam which clearly isn't the case.
Wrong. The only Gundams in the Delta series of mobile suits are the Delta Gundam, and the Gundam Delta Kai. The Hyaku Shiki and the Delta Plus are not Gundams, therefore making the statement that "Delta series = Gundams" false. Only a few of them are Gundams; the rest are not. If it was supposed to sport the Gundam name, then it would have the Gundam name. It does not, therefore it was not intended to be a Gundam.

Just because something was developed from a Gundam doesn't make what was developed from it a Gundam. Superior or inferior to the original Gundam it was developed from doesn't matter. If the Delta Plus was considered a Gundam because it was developed from a Gundam, then the GMs are also Gundams because they were developed from the Gundam.
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Old 2012-11-06, 01:21   Link #1559
Destined_Fate
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Come back to me when you actually provide some material other than "No it isn't, you're wrong and I'm going to ignore everything I just qouted, no Gundam in name thus it can't be a Gundam!!!, I can't hear you, MG is always correct(It isn't), those that don't disagree with me are trolls!, troublemaker because you don't agree with me!, and LIAR!!!".

As I said, show some tact.
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Old 2012-11-06, 01:24   Link #1560
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Come back to me when you actually provide some material other than "No it isn't, you're wrong and I'm going to ignore everything I just qouted, no Gundam in name thus it can't be a Gundam!!!, I can't hear you, MG is always correct(It isn't), those that don't disagree with me are trolls!, troublemaker because you don't agree with me!, and LIAR!!!".
LMFAO. I already have provided the material on two separate posts. You're the one who can't seem to provide sources for your claims and is going "You're wrong and I'm going to ignore everything you quoted!"
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