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Old 2012-10-31, 15:25   Link #401
LeoXiao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grevierr View Post
For the Soviet Union, they probably get their raw materials from the U.S. as well. They of course have the entire area to mine as well, so they can build ore refineries or something.
And the refugees dont really have a choice in where they end up, just the closest non BETA land they can find. Thats why in the TE anime Russian arc, the Zhar Battalion consists of non native conscripts... that can be replaced by Soviet command...
And the espers are genetically modified, not clones. They are two different things... Clones can be instant made, like the clone troopers. Genetically modified means an equal amount of fertilized eggs are needed, and time for them to grow up... which humanity is short of anyway.
The USSR probably looks something like a cross between Israel and North Korea. Practically everyone's job has something to do with supporting the military, and every available natural resources (like those oil deposits in Alaska) are certainly being exploited as fast as possible. People who made it from the now-occupied regions are probably the cream of the crop - scientists, officers, elite soldiers, and the like, which allow them to keep their military strength. Regarding consumption, they probably cut corners at any given chance. Your blood isn't freezing yet? Stop being such a pussy and get your job done, we won't turn on the heater.
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Old 2012-10-31, 17:35   Link #402
maximilianjenus
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Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
They should find a way to engineer computers that use something other than silicon to work. Some other medium should be possible, no? Or maybe the BETA just sense electrical waves, which would also allow them to sense humans...
related

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ibm...bon,18797.html
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Old 2012-11-03, 12:16   Link #403
Raviel
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Sorry to break the debate a bit here, I recently just started watching TE.

I've been following what you guys have said and I'm nothing short of amazed that even with hordes of aliens on Earth people still find time to stab each other in the back.

Also, on the effectiveness of US TSFs against the BETA, I know their main combat doctrine focuses primarily on ranged combat so does that mean their TSFs also have more ammo storage to compensate? Because more ammo storage seems kind of counter-productive on a high-mobility/stealth unit like the Raptor.
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Old 2012-11-03, 21:09   Link #404
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Originally Posted by Raviel View Post
Sorry to break the debate a bit here, I recently just started watching TE.

I've been following what you guys have said and I'm nothing short of amazed that even with hordes of aliens on Earth people still find time to stab each other in the back.

Also, on the effectiveness of US TSFs against the BETA, I know their main combat doctrine focuses primarily on ranged combat so does that mean their TSFs also have more ammo storage to compensate? Because more ammo storage seems kind of counter-productive on a high-mobility/stealth unit like the Raptor.
Welcome to America,where dakka is the one and only solution to any hostiles

Being the only superpower in the world,it's really rich
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Old 2012-11-04, 11:14   Link #405
Wild Goose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raviel View Post
Sorry to break the debate a bit here, I recently just started watching TE.

I've been following what you guys have said and I'm nothing short of amazed that even with hordes of aliens on Earth people still find time to stab each other in the back.

Also, on the effectiveness of US TSFs against the BETA, I know their main combat doctrine focuses primarily on ranged combat so does that mean their TSFs also have more ammo storage to compensate? Because more ammo storage seems kind of counter-productive on a high-mobility/stealth unit like the Raptor.
Ammo storage isn't specifically mentioned. So far from what I've seen, TSF ammo levels run empty when drama is needed.
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Old 2012-11-04, 15:15   Link #406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raviel View Post
Sorry to break the debate a bit here, I recently just started watching TE.

I've been following what you guys have said and I'm nothing short of amazed that even with hordes of aliens on Earth people still find time to stab each other in the back.

Also, on the effectiveness of US TSFs against the BETA, I know their main combat doctrine focuses primarily on ranged combat so does that mean their TSFs also have more ammo storage to compensate? Because more ammo storage seems kind of counter-productive on a high-mobility/stealth unit like the Raptor.
It is over the top.

Throughout history it was not uncommon for nations or people to join forces together against a common foe. Nazi Germany is the one that comes to mind. People put aside their differences to fight against them. Even when they weren't involved they kept a distance until they were actually dragged in. And even then they simply kept out of each other's way.

It wasn't until victory was actually near that they started planning for the post-war era where they would be enemies but at the very least they WAITED.

Here they are acting like they've already won when they're no where near it.
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Old 2012-11-05, 00:26   Link #407
Raviel
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Ammo storage isn't specifically mentioned. So far from what I've seen, TSF ammo levels run empty when drama is needed.
So TSF ammo levels are like plot armor?
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Old 2012-11-05, 00:47   Link #408
grevierr
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Originally Posted by Raviel View Post
So TSF ammo levels are like plot armor?
Not Exactly, since the line arts do show that there are limited reloads in internal storage for ammo. Approximately there are 6 reloads of the 36mm and 2 reloads of the 120mm magazines in the Shiranui per hip armor, for a total of 12 mags of 2000 rounds of 36mm and 4 mags of 6 rounds for 120mm.

However like all war stories, there is no count for the exact ammo level until someone shouts that they are low or reloading. In Muv Luv though, its been quite consistent in the sense that TSFs in combat for extended periods of time would be shown as being low or out of ammo pretty quick. And thus temporarily retreating to resupply or bumming a mag off a team member. Or they can use their swords, if they are not Americans.
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Old 2012-11-05, 01:42   Link #409
grylsyjaeger
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Remember their 36mms are multi-barrel miniguns so ammunition is expended at an alarming rate with careless trigger control.

Or hordes of angry nom noms rushing you.
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Old 2012-11-05, 01:50   Link #410
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Originally Posted by grylsyjaeger View Post
Remember their 36mms are multi-barrel miniguns so ammunition is expended at an alarming rate with careless trigger control.

Or hordes of angry nom noms rushing you.
only applies to A-10 and A-6.
hand held assault cannons used by most TSFs are Chain guns. very different from a multi barreled Gatling gun.
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Old 2012-11-05, 04:24   Link #411
Dragonkid11
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Originally Posted by grylsyjaeger View Post
Remember their 36mms are multi-barrel miniguns so ammunition is expended at an alarming rate with careless trigger control.

Or hordes of angry nom noms rushing you.
Please remember that there is huge drum that is feeding through gatling gun

The huge drum that is several dozens times larger than your usual 2000 rounds magazine?

Which could potentially store about HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF 36MM ROUNDS?

America is really rich
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Old 2012-11-05, 04:57   Link #412
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Sorry but being based off of modern aircraft I cannot see the Assault Cannons being anything other than a rotary cannon/minigun/gatting cannon what ever.

I remember seeing a draft image showing the cut away of a Type-87 and noticing a multiple barrel weapon system within the barrel shroud. Another thing if you play the games you can here the distinct wind down of the weapon when the pilot expends their ammunition.

I am trying to find the image but to no avail. I'll have to look at the integral works.



EDIT:


Hmm I see they call it a chain gun in the HUD. My mistake. I'll keep looking for that image though damn it.
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Last edited by grylsyjaeger; 2012-11-05 at 05:25.
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Old 2012-11-05, 11:00   Link #413
Wild Goose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonkid11 View Post
Please remember that there is huge drum that is feeding through gatling gun

The huge drum that is several dozens times larger than your usual 2000 rounds magazine?

Which could potentially store about HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF 36MM ROUNDS?

America is really rich
Actually, it's not really that bad.

Depleted Uranium, which is used for most of the 36mm shells (Muv-Luv wiki calls them High Velocity Armor Piercing; I figure these are based off the Armor Piercing Incendiary shells used by the A-10 IRL), is actually easier to come by and cheaper than tungsten, which is why the US IRL uses DU to armor their tanks, make sabot penetrator shells, and as the penetrator component in 20mm SAPHEI shells for the M61A1 Vulcan. (USN uses tungsten penetrators on CIWS instead of DU due to safety reasons, btw.)

During the Cold War, an oft-quoted price for a single 30mm DU API shell for the A-10 was US$30, which is ridiculously cheap when compared with the high costs of practically everything else, including smart weapons.

So assuming that the drum holds say 5,000 rounds of ammo, that's only US$300,000 for two fully-loaded drums. A pair of Sidewinders would cost a lot more than that.

But yes, US is rich.
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Old 2012-11-05, 17:51   Link #414
LeoXiao
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
During the Cold War, an oft-quoted price for a single 30mm DU API shell for the A-10 was US$30, which is ridiculously cheap when compared with the high costs of practically everything else, including smart weapons.
They could probably get prices lower than that by increasing work shifts, using slave labor, etc.
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Old 2012-11-05, 19:08   Link #415
Angrypokstick
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Originally Posted by grylsyjaeger View Post
Sorry but being based off of modern aircraft I cannot see the Assault Cannons being anything other than a rotary cannon/minigun/gatting cannon what ever.

I remember seeing a draft image showing the cut away of a Type-87 and noticing a multiple barrel weapon system within the barrel shroud. Another thing if you play the games you can here the distinct wind down of the weapon when the pilot expends their ammunition.

I am trying to find the image but to no avail. I'll have to look at the integral works.



EDIT:


Hmm I see they call it a chain gun in the HUD. My mistake. I'll keep looking for that image though damn it.
The A-10's multibarrel GAU-8 is stated clearly to be a 36mm. and look at its size and individual barrel diameter. i can't see how the hand held assault cannon being somehow able to accommodate a multi 36mm barrel arrangement and still maintain the rifle like appearance and magazine feeding style. Though i concede that Muzzle diameter=/=internal barrel diameter and that age 's scale used in their TSFs are all kinds of f**ked up. still with only 2000 36mm rounds(according to IW) in a single mag on the average tsf, the Gatling's rate of fire would see all ammo expended on the TSF under 10 minutes on a typical front line slog fest with a beta zerg rush i would imagine.
And as for the" wind down" noise you hear, well having operated a 25mm bushmaster chain gun and from firing the M134 mini gun before i can tell you that the electrical drive motor that move the chain and feeds the dual upload of 25mm rounds in the bushmaster sounds very similar to the motor that rotates the mini gun. While similar there is a distinct difference in the noise and i somehow doubt that the staff at Age knows the difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
They could probably get prices lower than that by increasing work shifts, using slave labor, etc.
Somehow i don't think you know how war time economy works, especially for a country like America.

Last edited by Angrypokstick; 2012-11-05 at 20:14.
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Old 2012-11-05, 20:11   Link #416
SoldierOfDarkness
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Exactly what is the US' combat doctrine against the BETA?

Since everybody else seems to fall into CQC how do the US fair in ranged combat? With the laser class that would be difficult wouldn't it?
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Old 2012-11-05, 21:09   Link #417
Wild Goose
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Exactly what is the US' combat doctrine against the BETA?

Since everybody else seems to fall into CQC how do the US fair in ranged combat? With the laser class that would be difficult wouldn't it?
The US hasn't actially seen that much combat time; A-10s aside, most of the army are untested, though the Narines and Navy have seen plenty of action. Aggressor units do traing for CQC - the Flankers of the 65th Combat Training Battalion use knives, for example - though thenUSvfavors the dakk approach.

Navy doctrine is to fly very fast, pop up and salvo missiles, and then dive for the deck, while putting down an impressive volume of fire.
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Old 2012-11-05, 21:39   Link #418
grevierr
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Exactly what is the US' combat doctrine against the BETA?

Since everybody else seems to fall into CQC how do the US fair in ranged combat? With the laser class that would be difficult wouldn't it?
Its not that everyone else is only CQC, everyone has more or less the same ranged weapons as the US, and CQC options on top. Its the US that declined the CQC options, using only combat knives in melee, and they train that only ever in TSF vs TSF combat.

As Goose said, US Army doctrine is Fast In Faster Out, to prevent losses, quick strike attacks at maximum stand off ranges. Of course, this doesn't help with holding ground or taking it, as BETAs just ignore losses and push forward (No need to mention Hive combat). So basically US doctrine is best used to provide support for other forces that are holding the line on the ground. If they ever have to stand their ground in close combat with BETA they would be fked.

That being said, no TSF forces would fight alone without supporting forces from Artillery and Obital Resupply, so if Laser Class are present, a bombardment of heavy metal shells first to diffuse the lasers can be expected. Then it would rely on the TSFs ability to dodge laser fire with random movements while moving in, which most Gen 3 and 2.5 TSFs can do.

Spoiler for US in the Post Alt world:
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Last edited by grevierr; 2012-11-05 at 21:55.
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Old 2012-11-06, 00:13   Link #419
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by grevierr View Post

As Goose said, US Army doctrine is Fast In Faster Out, to prevent losses, quick strike attacks at maximum stand off ranges. Of course, this doesn't help with holding ground or taking it, as BETAs just ignore losses and push forward (No need to mention Hive combat). So basically US doctrine is best used to provide support for other forces that are holding the line on the ground. If they ever have to stand their ground in close combat with BETA they would be fked.
Sounds pretty useless if that's the doctrine since fighting like that is like throwing fire at a rock
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Old 2012-11-06, 00:38   Link #420
Dragonkid11
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Sounds pretty useless if that's the doctrine since fighting like that is like throwing fire at a rock
Well,they are one of the country that didn't get its population CHOMPED by the BETA

It makes sense for them to be arrogant
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