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Old 2012-11-05, 09:05   Link #461
Randrak42
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Before I respond to you Rainrir, I want you to tell me your side...what do you believe is wrong and should be improved with their system.
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Old 2012-11-05, 09:22   Link #462
Kafriel
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161 is out, this is getting better by the chapter. Expecting Aladdin to be all by himself in a couple of chapters, while Titus and Sphinctus will have accepted the way Magnoshtat works...will he reveal his true nature though, in an attempt to change the system? What could possibly happen to him, if Mogamett knew what he is?

....I'll find out next year.
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Old 2012-11-05, 11:52   Link #463
GDiddy
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I caught up to 158...

So, this is shaping up to be basically Muggles vs Magicians? This is like Harry Potter meets the politics of Game of Thrones, without the violence and breasts....

Aladdin still remains a cutie pie. Though I'm starting to have a soft spot for Sinbad....though
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Old 2012-11-05, 12:20   Link #464
XFire
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Wow, first time I've seen an actual philosophical debate over a manga.
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Old 2012-11-05, 12:30   Link #465
Starshipw
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
Before I respond to you Rainrir, I want you to tell me your side...what do you believe is wrong and should be improved with their system.
Let me take a shot at this. There is nothing inherently wrong with the system as long as it is voluntary. It is fine with me if you want to sell a kidney or serve as a surrogate. It is immoral to use someone as a heart donor against his will.

So to fix the system is simple: Just open the doors and close the pit. If life down there is so idyllic there will be plenty of slothful people willing to donate their power for three meals a day. Returns would probably be even better if everyone could spend one day a week outside regenerating their batteries. Having a rest community outside could provide employment for those who react badly to being drained.

Why would you not do this if it is so beneficial? Because you would have to admit there is no difference between goi and magician, that each has the same needs and rights and that no one has the right to kill them whenever they become inconvenient.
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Old 2012-11-05, 14:13   Link #466
marvelB
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Actually, there's another thing that occurred to me: Why doesn't Aladdin take a page from Mogamett's book and preach about how much superior the Magi are compared to the "regular" mages? I mean, sure he's inexperienced, but he still has abilities that other magic users lack, does he not (Wisdom of Solomon, anyone )? In fact, now I'm kinda hoping that he'll raise a dungeon himself as the first step towards knocking ol' Dumblemort off that high horse of his.....
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Old 2012-11-05, 14:21   Link #467
Key Board
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speaking of which

I wonder what he thinks of Judal
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Old 2012-11-05, 14:40   Link #468
musouka
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Originally Posted by Starshipw View Post
Let me take a shot at this. There is nothing inherently wrong with the system as long as it is voluntary. It is fine with me if you want to sell a kidney or serve as a surrogate. It is immoral to use someone as a heart donor against his will.
Yes, exactly. It's the lack of upward mobility that's the main issue with what's going on in this society. Mogamett deliberately keeps a huge swath of the public as ignorant as possible so that they won't question their quality of living, even as he, himself, admits that what allowed magicians to improve their lot over their oppressors was education.

By making it both involuntary and passed down through parents to children, Mogamett has become what he despises. Not only that, but isn't this obviously class discrimination too? Yes, people have pointed out that Goi live on upper levels too, but, as always, the people shouldering the burden of keeping this kingdom afloat are the same Goi that were miserable and starving when the nobility were in power. Making their standard of living marginally better is just slapping a coat of new paint over an ugly situation.

Magicians were treated like animals because of ignorance and distrust. If Mogamett doesn't want to perpetuate the cycle the next time the pendulum swings back to the Goi, what he needed to do was try to improve everyone's standard of education. His way will only breed contempt and fear in the long run.
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Old 2012-11-05, 14:48   Link #469
alluka
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So, the Goi have to choose between:
1- working their asses and live outside, they won't go further than the 3rd level though.

2- Remaining in the 5th district, having their life force drained while being pampered with food and shelter without doing anything. They are treated pretty much like animals but hey, they can have what they want without breaking a sweat! Even the mortality rate decreased!

BUT in the two options they will always be "inferior", and if the old generation generally accept this way of living, the young one definitely does not. There will definitely be a revolt and Al Sarmen will supply them with magic tools. Or even better (or worse) the supplier will be a magician of Magnoshtatt working with al Sarmen. Either way, Mogamett is doomed, it's either that, or that psychotic pink head prince

Ohkata, I want to peek inside your brain and see from where you have these awesome ideas
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Old 2012-11-05, 19:20   Link #470
Netto Azure
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Ohkata, I want to peek inside your brain and see from where you have these awesome ideas
When I first saw the chapter criticizing the value of paper currency or tying your currency to another country, the criticsm of interest and inflation I just had to look up the time it was initially published which turns out to be around 2009. Right in the middle of the post-2008 financial crisis. I'd argue that it's a culmination of societal observations wrapped in a shonen package. :P
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Old 2012-11-05, 19:34   Link #471
marvelB
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Ohkata, I want to peek inside your brain and see from where you have these awesome ideas

BTW, that reminds me: I was pleasantly surprised when I found out this series' author was a woman. Reminds me of how I felt when I found out FMA's author was also female, actually. Actually, I wonder why there's so few awesome female authors in the shonen manga biz in the first place.....?
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Old 2012-11-05, 20:05   Link #472
Xion Valkyrie
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Everyone's choice will be different. A lot of people will choose to be enslaved but cared for, but there will be those who want to be free. If you think about it, it's probably only been about 10-12 years since the system was created. The GOI living on the upper levels probably had skills that exempted them from being sent to the 5th level in the first place.

Looking at the conditions in the 5th level, how is it possible that any new GOI can qualify for a scholar position if they have no education and their life force is constantly drained? The whole moving upwards via scholar qualification is probably just a tiny shred of fake hope to control the GOI in the 5th level, as well as an excuse to justify the caste system to other magicians who are uncomfortable with the idea.

The whole Mahicans being a nobler race ideal giving them moral superiority over GOI's is no different than how the Nazi's painted the Jews to pave way for the holocaust. Once you dehumanize a group of people it becomes incredibly easy to justify atrocities done against them. We've already seen multiple examples of Magicians being just as evil as GOI's, as well as plenty of GOI's who are good people. There is no difference between GOI's and magicians other than the fact that one can use magic and one can't.
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Old 2012-11-05, 21:26   Link #473
kenjtr
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I think hitler also had political reasons for killing jews since they have a massive political power and money , jews also belive they are choosen people and only their kind will go to haven , a jews can do any unmoral thing to get succesful cause they think its their right , jews are killing thier neibors and taking their lands . For gods sake israel is building a wall between plestinian , they also dont let people do their prayers in Aqsa mosque .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkNMTM80xmM heres the pictures what israel doing to plestinian people .
http://www.filistinzulmu.com/album.html heres some pictures of what irael doing in palestinian people .
Jews are no good from hitler since now they have power they are doing the same thing he did because of jews world cant help palestini they even atacked a ship for turkey which only had food and medicine , they also killed people there .

Now palestine is a big prisone camp which is ruled by jews and they are systematically killing women and children , no one trys to save poor people of palestine since jews have so much political and military power .

I hate hitler dont get me wrong but i also hate jews that are doing same things with hitler , if there is still good jews there pls help palestine people and dont wote for the people that kills them .
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Old 2012-11-05, 21:38   Link #474
Myssa Rei
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Godwin's law at work. So can we please drop any more mention about you-know what's despicable social movement? It tends to derail threads very quickly.
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Old 2012-11-05, 21:48   Link #475
kenjtr
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Godwin's law at work. So can we please drop any more mention about you-know what's despicable social movement? It tends to derail threads very quickly.
I didnt want to talk about it but i got bored from that nazi shiit and people still talking about it like there is no bad people in todays world anyway my point was jews arent saints and there will always be bad people no matter what so we should just give germans a break .
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Old 2012-11-05, 21:53   Link #476
Myssa Rei
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No, seriously, drop it. Comparison is one thing, letting one's feelings on the real-world movement derail a topic is another. Let it go and never speak of it again in this thread.
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Old 2012-11-06, 01:19   Link #477
Westlo
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Originally Posted by Randrak42 View Post
Kougyoku seems pretty much head over heels for Sinbad.
I thought it was pretty clear she's getting over that and also starting to fall for Alibaba.... Sinbad's her first crush, she can obviously get charmed/manipulated by him easily even still, but as things were going she was falling for Alibaba, she just doesn't know.

Don't think anything will come of this apart from a reason to switch sides.. and more than likely Alibaba x Mor will happen.

Anyway speaking of dat Kougyoku, considering what happened in episode 5 do you think the anime version of her going through Ugo will be in her djinn equip form?
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Old 2012-11-06, 01:59   Link #478
Kazu-kun
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I thought it was pretty clear she's getting over that and also starting to fall for Alibaba....
I wouldn't say she's falling for him just yet. I think she was all flustered with him because he is her very first real friend, as she said so herself. If they meet again and interact more, she might start to fall for him, but right now I think it's best to take things as face value.

It's different with Toto, for example. In her case it's pretty obvious she's got a bit of a crush on him.
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Old 2012-11-06, 02:36   Link #479
aohige
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Silly westerners, clearly with an Arabian background Baba dererves a harem.

Clearly.

With a giant monkey included.

Clearly.
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Old 2012-11-06, 03:19   Link #480
hawkeyesvn
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Silly westerners, clearly with an Arabian background Baba dererves a harem.

Clearly.

With a giant monkey included.

Clearly.
Do not forget Elizabeth - the most popular hostess, his harem must have her for maximum achievement.
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