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Old 2012-11-06, 01:26   Link #1561
Destined_Fate
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Now you're being petty. What, don't like being called out?

As I said, if you aren't even going to show a little tact and keep the mud slinging to yourself than don't even bother. Really, I have far better things to do than to have someone ignore everything I posted and continues to call me a troll and a liar while never refuting anything I posted.
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Old 2012-11-06, 01:28   Link #1562
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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@RD, if you can, make the Delta Plus Gunpla boxes & manuals visible here. Also, itd be better if you can translate the game screenshot from Kirayuki for Destined and everyone else to see .
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Old 2012-11-06, 01:29   Link #1563
Rising Dragon
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That's just it, I have been refuting what you've been posting, time and time again. I've provided the official stance and have backed it up with official sources across three different medias in the franchise, whereas you've failed the provide a single concrete source and the one source you HAVE cited turned out to be false, which you backpedaled on when it was proven to be false.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
@RD, if you can, make the Delta Plus Gunpla boxes & manuals visible here. Also, it’d be better if you can translate the game screenshot from Kirayuki for Destined and everyone else to see .
Yeah, alright. Here's the links of my sources again.

1 2 3
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
1 2
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Old 2012-11-06, 01:33   Link #1564
Destined_Fate
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No you haven't, you just continue repeating the same thing over and over again. The only official thing you provided was MG stuff which is what you mentioned from the very start thus you provided nothing new. I already know that MG doesn't have Gundam in its name, that doesn't change anything because it doesn't even say whether it is or isn't a Gundam in its description anyway. After all MG isn't the best source for Gundam lore anyway(and have gotten things wrong before and always leave out a ton of info) because they're just there to sell toys off the line.

Not once have you refuted anything I have posted or the whole Delta Gundam - > Delta Plus - > Delta Gundam Kai. In fact you've completely ignored it every single time and go back to screaming "you're wrong, liar!!!".

And no, the source provided from Overworld didn't prove anything. In fact it wasn't even translated and only offered a small part of the info due to the fact that it was just a single SS.
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Old 2012-11-06, 01:41   Link #1565
Rising Dragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
The only official thing you provided was MG stuff which is what you mentioned from the very start thus you provided nothing new.
So you're ignoring the manual information concerning the Mobile Suit Gundam Unicorn show? Because not everything I've posted it solely based on the model kits.

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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
I already know that MG doesn't have Gundam in its name, that doesn't change anything because it doesn't even say whether it is or isn't a Gundam in its description anyway. After all MG isn't the best source for Gundam lore anyway(and have gotten things wrong before and always leave out a ton of info) because they're just there to sell toys off the line.
So you acknowledge that the Delta Plus is not, in fact, a Gundam in any way, shape, or form?

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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Not once have you refuted anything I have posted or the whole Delta Gundam - > Delta Plus - > Delta Gundam Kai. In fact you've completely ignored it every single time and go back to screaming "you're wrong, liar!!!".
You said the Delta Plus was a Gundam. It is not, and I said it was not, and provided sources that reinforce this saying that it is not a Gundam. That's refuting your claim that it is a Gundam. Stating that I have not is a lie.

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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
And no, the source provided from Overworld didn't prove anything. In fact it wasn't even translated and only offered a small part of the info due to the fact that it was just a single SS.
Except you were the one who said that it does say it's a Gundam. Now you're backpedaling and saying it's not.
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Old 2012-11-06, 01:45   Link #1566
Destined_Fate
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That information doesn't say it isn't a Gundam or if it is a Gundam. all you have going by is that it just doesn't have Gundam in its name. Just because you repeat it over ad over again doesn't make anything any different.

No, I acknowledge that the Delta Plus is a Gundam in all but name. Doesn't change that it's literally a Delta Gundam with a Plus.

No, it is a Gundam due to the fact that it's literally Delta Gundam Mk.II. Your only ground is that it doesn't have Gundam in name, that's it.

I said that I stand that it's a Gundam even if is and isn't officially considered a Gundam depending where you look. You choose to believe the side that says it isn't because "No Gundam in name" while I go by logic that "It's literally just a Delta Gundam Mk.II. Just because it doesn't have Gundam in name doesn't change that it is in fact a Gundam and an improved Delta Gundam". Thus, unlike you, I have done no backtracking nor have I gone around calling others I disagree with as trolls, troublemakers, liars and the such as you have.
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Old 2012-11-06, 01:51   Link #1567
Rising Dragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
That information doesn't say it isn't a Gundam or if it is a Gundam. all you have going by is that it just doesn't have Gundam in its name. Just because you repeat it over ad over again doesn't make anything any different.
Every single one of the sources I posted concerning the Delta Plus all have proof that it's not a Gundam in them. Not a single one labels it as a Gundam. The thing about this being a name issue is because... well, because in U.C., "Gundam" is just that, a name. So if it's not labeled as a Gundam, then it isn't a Gundam. This isn't Gundam SEED or Gundam 00, where qualification of being a Gundam came from specific factors beyond a name, such as SEED's G.U.N.D.A.M. operating systems.

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No, I acknowledge that the Delta Plus is a Gundam in all but name. Doesn't change that it's literally a Delta Gundam with a Plus.

No, it is a Gundam due to the fact that it's literally Delta Gundam Mk.II. Your only ground is that it doesn't have Gundam in name, that's it.
As just stated, the whole deal is because it doesn't have "Gundam" in the name as "Gundam" is a name.
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Old 2012-11-06, 01:51   Link #1568
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
I said that I stand that it's a Gundam even if is and isn't officially considered a Gundam ...
Now he finally admit it that it's all only in his head .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
...depending where you look.
And still with meaningless denial .

RD, we're done here. We've already proven it enough. Now I don't think anybody will trust him anymore concerning this Delta Plus issue. Still, more solid evidence from any other posters out there will be welcomed here.
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Old 2012-11-06, 01:53   Link #1569
Destined_Fate
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No it isn't, it doesn't confirm nor deny whether it's a Gundam. It just isn't mentioned. Furthermore you're repeating the same thing yet again "no Gundam in name thus NO GUNDAM!!!". Don't bring SEED into this, this is about the Delta Plus.

It doesn't need to have Gundam in its name to be Gundam. It's the Mk.II version of the Delta Gundam as the Kai is the Zeta to both of them.
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Old 2012-11-06, 01:56   Link #1570
Rising Dragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
It doesn't need to have Gundam in its name to be Gundam.
Um... yeah it does, actually.
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Old 2012-11-06, 01:57   Link #1571
Destined_Fate
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That's where we disagree, you want Gundam in name while I go by specs and the fact that the Delta Plus is just an improved Delta Gundam and was followed by the Delta Gundam Kai.
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Old 2012-11-06, 02:00   Link #1572
Rising Dragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
That's where we disagree, you want Gundam in name while I go by specs and the fact that the Delta Plus is just an improved Delta Gundam and was followed by the Delta Gundam Kai.
What I want is irrelevant. Official sources do not label it as a Gundam, therefore it is not a Gundam--that is a proven fact that is above both your opinion and mine. Specs are irrelevant: U.C. is full of mobile suits that are on par, or even superior, to Gundams, but are not labeled as Gundams despite being on par or superior to Gundams. And if you really want to get technical on the specs, it's somewhat difficult to quantify if the Delta Plus really is "improved", because what it makes up in extra weaponry and a working transformation mode, it loses in defense, as defensive-wise the Delta Gundam is superior to the Delta Plus.
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Old 2012-11-06, 02:05   Link #1573
Destined_Fate
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Officially i isn't labeled as one but it also officially has been treated as just as much of a Gundam as the Delta Gundam as well. It is an improvement over the Delta Gundam that was already plagued with enough issues. A testament of that improvement is that the Kai would follow after which was vastly powerful in comparison to both even if it's unbalanced and was only meant to show off the n.i.t.r.o system.

Specs aren't the sole reason. The Delta Plus is literally a Delta Gundam Mk.II and it was than followed by the Delta Gundam Kai.

What you're saying is that it's...

Gundam - > Mass Produced/Grunt - > Gundam

I'm going with the more logical...

Gundam - > Gundam Mk.II - > Zeta.
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Old 2012-11-06, 02:12   Link #1574
Rising Dragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Officially i isn't labeled as one but it also officially has been treated as just as much of a Gundam as the Delta Gundam as well. It is an improvement over the Delta Gundam that was already plagued with enough issues. A testament of that improvement is that the Kai would follow after which was vastly powerful in comparison to both even if it's unbalanced and was only meant to show off the n.i.t.r.o system.
I suppose so, but this still doesn't make it an actual, official Gundam. On par with one, sure, and better than one in the right hands, but as far as the whole "Gundam" aspect goes, that's determined pretty much solely by name.

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Specs aren't the sole reason. The Delta Plus is literally a Delta Gundam Mk.II and it was than followed by the Delta Gundam Kai.
Other way around, actually. The Gundam Delta Kai was developed two years before the Delta Plus, first appearing in U.C. 0094, whereas the Delta Plus was first seen in U.C. 0096. They were developed from the same source, the Delta Gundam, but if anything the Delta Plus was developed from the Gundam Delta Kai rather than the Gundam Delta Kai being developed from the Delta Plus.

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What you're saying is that it's...

Gundam - > Mass Produced/Grunt - > Gundam
It can, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
I'm going with the more logical...

Gundam - > Gundam Mk.II - > Zeta.
Not sure what you're getting at with this, because if you're talking about the RX-78-2 Gundam followed by the Gundam Mk II. and then the Zeta Gundam, yeah, that is what happened, but I'm not sure what bearing it has on the discussion at hand.
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Old 2012-11-06, 02:21   Link #1575
blitz1/2
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Remember Gelgoog spec wise is better than the Gundam, so yes, some mass produced suits > Gundam
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Old 2012-11-06, 02:58   Link #1576
zeroexia
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Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the development line actually:

MSN-001 Delta Gundam -> MSN-00100 Hyaku Shiki -> MSN-001X Gundam Delta Kai -> MSN-001A1 Delta Plus

The Delta Plus was created from the data obtained by using the single Delta Kai created which used the computer data of the Delta Gundam.

So it's Gundam -> Non-standard Prototype
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Old 2012-11-06, 03:09   Link #1577
Destined_Fate
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I stand corrected than, though I still stand on the Delta Plus being Gundam. Whether anyone else does or not isn't really a concern for me. Really, it seems like a communication issue between those even up there that believe whether it's Gundam or not. Or they just don't care enough to verify with each other since it's really not all that important in the end.

Can you provide me with an example? I don't recall a Gundam ever going MP grunt than that MP grunt going Gundam again. You know unless you count Mk.II as a MP first before Gundm even though only a few ever were made and were pretty expensive which priced them out of MP.

Just an example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeroexia View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the development line actually:

MSN-001 Delta Gundam -> MSN-00100 Hyaku Shiki -> MSN-001X Gundam Delta Kai -> MSN-001A1 Delta Plus

The Delta Plus was created from the data obtained by using the single Delta Kai created which used the computer data of the Delta Gundam.

So it's Gundam -> Non-standard Prototype
Well technically Delta Gundam was scrapped and what was left over was made into the Hyaku Shiki instead. So they aren't even two different mobile suits or development cycles. Delta Gundam was what they wanted but Hyaku Shiki is what they ended up with. I forget if a Delta Gundam was later made or not after the fact though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz1/2 View Post
Remember Gelgoog spec wise is better than the Gundam, so yes, some mass produced suits > Gundam
I dunno, if it was really better than why didn't Char's Gelgoog do better against the Gundam? Regular Gelgoog's also seemed to blow up far too easily in comparison to the Gundam. Though there's no denying the Gelgoog was far superior to the GM.
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Old 2012-11-06, 04:16   Link #1578
kaito-kid
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@Destined "la la la I can't hear you" Fate: Since you still can't find any prove to suport your point, I kind of feel bad for you dude.. So I made this:



I just gave your bullshit that much more credibility! ..You're welcome!

</Troll>

On a serious note, What exactly is a Gundam? Well, If Bandai points at a rock and calls it a Gundam, it's a motherfu*king Gundam! So if Bandai never called Delta plus a Gundam, It's not a fu*king Gundam! put that in the dictionary plz.
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Old 2012-11-06, 05:52   Link #1579
StratoSpear
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I really don't know how far this is going to go seeing how much persuasion and posting of official sources isn't going to change Destined's mind anytime soon so I'm gonna try sparking another discussion.

Instead of going on about what makes a mobile suit a Gundam, I would like to ask:
What is it about Gundams that makes it unique from other mobile suits? It's one thing that I'm rather intrigued about eversince I started watching Unicorn.

What is it about Gundams that other mobile suits can't copy and attain the same level of superiority? Nevermind the name(we know how that will end), I'm more inclined to know about its development.
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Old 2012-11-06, 05:59   Link #1580
Znozzy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StratoSpear View Post
I really don't know how far this is going to go seeing how much persuasion and posting of official sources isn't going to change Destined's mind anytime soon so I'm gonna try sparking another discussion.

Instead of going on about what makes a mobile suit a Gundam, I would like to ask:
What is it about Gundams that makes it unique from other mobile suits? It's one thing that I'm rather intrigued about eversince I started watching Unicorn.

What is it about Gundams that other mobile suits can't copy and attain the same level of superiority? Nevermind the name(we know how that will end), I'm more inclined to know about its development.
It has the name Gundam,its usually a prototype and it is piloted by a MC. thats pretty much it
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