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Old 2012-11-06, 00:17   Link #121
aohige
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papermario13689 View Post
It does actually, in my opinion. I suppose it's all in how you look at things, but I think the two can be synonymous.
Target demographics, which is what "shounen, seinen, shoujo, etc" are, are simply industry standard category. Meaning, your opinion and subjective view has no bearing on it.

Regardless of how you feel or observe, you don't decide what industry standards are on either demographics or genre. It's stricktly your own personal opinion, and nothing more.

I could, for example, argue with an entire book on why "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" is a satirical drama and not a comedy sketch (not that I would, I'm not demented ), but it has no bearing on what how it's categorized. Because you know, my subjective opinion isn't the rule of the industry.
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Old 2012-11-06, 09:43   Link #122
Hiroi Sekai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Target demographics, which is what "shounen, seinen, shoujo, etc" are, are simply industry standard category. Meaning, your opinion and subjective view has no bearing on it.

Regardless of how you feel or observe, you don't decide what industry standards are on either demographics or genre. It's stricktly your own personal opinion, and nothing more.

I could, for example, argue with an entire book on why "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" is a satirical drama and not a comedy sketch (not that I would, I'm not demented ), but it has no bearing on what how it's categorized. Because you know, my subjective opinion isn't the rule of the industry.
Look, I'm not trying to warp people's opinions or the truth here. I'm just hoping that we don't retain this mindset that they're 100% separated, as that makes you view them as two opposing forces. You know, kind of like school and fun should be synonymous (although the base idea is not so). Your opinion of school is subjective and that doesn't change how another may see it, but if you can try and view them in a similar manner, the whole outlook is more positive and expansive.

Sorry about my weak example. I do know it's all subjective, but I'm not asking you to agree with me. I'd just like to see a more expansive mindset so less people are tied to demographics and certain genres, y'know?
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Old 2012-11-06, 13:00   Link #123
aohige
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See, you're still talking about "your opinion versus mine". It's not.
My opinion doesn't count anymore than yours, it's an industry set terminology.

The only reason we use these common terminology, without our own "opinion" involved in it, is because if we all started calling everything whatever we want, then no one can understand what the hell is going on.
It really doesn't matter if I think "Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer should be a shounen", it doesn't make it so. It's a seinen manga. So even if I did feel like it's a shounen manga, I'd call it a seinen manga, because I'm not the one setting the terminologies.

Even if I had good arguments, I'm not gonna call a donkey a horse, simply because I don't want to confuse anyone with my subjective view. That doesn't mean everyone should be deadset on "well, it says shounen so only boys should read it". That's not what I mean.

You should be more flexible in differentiating terminology with your opinion.
The difference is clear. I'm saying "K-ON is a seinen manga, but has lots of appeals to girls." instead of saying "K-ON is popular with girls, so I'm calling it shoujo manga I don't really care what its terminology is"

You're putting way too much importance on "seinen, shoujo, shounen" labels.
They are there for convinience sake by the industry, it does not define anything beyond convinience of bookstore filing.
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Old 2012-11-06, 14:05   Link #124
SeijiSensei
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My mother used to read Esquire and even the occasional Playboy back when it was known for its political articles. (Playboy's interview with Jimmy Carter during the 1976 election contained the famous "lust in my heart" comment about how he felt when looking at women other than his wife.) The other day the man sitting next to me waiting for a haircut, a middle-aged physician, was reading Glamour.

Really, people, all these labels are irrelevant.
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Old 2012-11-06, 14:51   Link #125
Jan-Poo
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Hmmm I'm not really convinced.
Exceptions do not prove the pointlessness of definitions.
I can easily show various cases of people that cannot be easily defined as either male or female, X0, XXY and other various intersex.
But I don't agree that it is pointless to divide humanity in males and females. The difference exists, and there is a purpose in that distinction.
You just need to keep in mind that for every distinction there are borderline cases.
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Old 2012-11-06, 15:17   Link #126
Vexx
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What does the publisher of the material self-identify as? That's what it is. It doesn't matter whether it has lollipops or machine guns or both
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Old 2012-11-06, 18:17   Link #127
Hiroi Sekai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
See, you're still talking about "your opinion versus mine". It's not.
My opinion doesn't count anymore than yours, it's an industry set terminology.

The only reason we use these common terminology, without our own "opinion" involved in it, is because if we all started calling everything whatever we want, then no one can understand what the hell is going on.
It really doesn't matter if I think "Lucifer and the Biscuit Hammer should be a shounen", it doesn't make it so. It's a seinen manga. So even if I did feel like it's a shounen manga, I'd call it a seinen manga, because I'm not the one setting the terminologies.

Even if I had good arguments, I'm not gonna call a donkey a horse, simply because I don't want to confuse anyone with my subjective view. That doesn't mean everyone should be deadset on "well, it says shounen so only boys should read it". That's not what I mean.

You should be more flexible in differentiating terminology with your opinion.
The difference is clear. I'm saying "K-ON is a seinen manga, but has lots of appeals to girls." instead of saying "K-ON is popular with girls, so I'm calling it shoujo manga I don't really care what its terminology is"

You're putting way too much importance on "seinen, shoujo, shounen" labels.
They are there for convinience sake by the industry, it does not define anything beyond convinience of bookstore filing.
I won't even bother because like you said, it's just an opinion. I would just like to see the two closer together than apart.

"It's not described as such, therefore it has nothing to do with it." I'd just like to have: "Even though it's not exactly related, we can make our own connections."

What's wrong with a subjective view? I'm not trying to rewrite the description of "genre" or "target demographic" here. You're definitely right in your description here; I'm not trying to change that.
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