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Old 2012-11-06, 13:14   Link #2181
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Leap year is irrelivant, the planet makes the same number of sun ups and sun downs regardless of what name is assigned to it. Remember the Mayans didn't assigne the name of the dates...the Westerns did based on the end of the Mayan cycle, which would be on a Winter Solstice.

It is bunk anyway, but the "its wrong becaus of leap year" is incorrect bcause those that assigned a date to "the End of the World" simply figured out which day that was based on the sun ups and sun downs.
No, I'm pretty sure (at work so can't really go looking it up) that they did not take into account leap years. And that's exactly why they were flawed, they did not go by "sun up and sun down" until the final year.

Either way, not really the topic for this unless you want to argue the election is going to cause it. In which case those Mayans weren't good at calculating and predicting, but just god damned psychics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
As for the Electoral College. Remember that when it was made, there were still many states that did not choose the President by popular vote at all. The Electorate were picked by the State Government (usually the state legislature) and they picked the President. The popular vote might have influenced them, but I doubt it. (In the Election of 1832 you can see South Carolina give 11 electoral votes to someone that wasn't even running for President)
Wasn't there something this year about the Ohio or Iowa Electorate stepping down because she refused to give the points to Romney regardless of how the people voted, and her personal convictions made her step down? She could have very easily kept that position and done what she wanted, ignoring every last vote in the state except her own.
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Old 2012-11-06, 13:21   Link #2182
Terrestrial Dream
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As for the subject of electoral college, I actually would like to see proportional voting. If the result of the voting in a state is 60-40 then the electoral college splits 60-40.
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Old 2012-11-06, 13:40   Link #2183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
As for the subject of electoral college, I actually would like to see proportional voting. If the result of the voting in a state is 60-40 then the electoral college splits 60-40.
A couple states have this I think but if all states did wouldn't there be no point in having an electoral college since if it's proportional wouldn't it just be identical as using the popular vote?
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Old 2012-11-06, 13:52   Link #2184
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totoum View Post
A couple states have this I think but if all states did wouldn't there be no point in having an electoral college since if it's proportional wouldn't it just be identical as using the popular vote?
Closer than it is, but it'd still be based off of state totals, not population totals.
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Old 2012-11-06, 14:06   Link #2185
creb
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The best fix for the EC, if we didn't radically change the way State governments and the Federal government worked, is to simply make every State have 10 votes that are distributed to candidates based on the popular vote within that state. Your vote, regardless of your political leanings would have actual meaning then, when it comes to electing the next President.

This would allow for the following:

1) Your vote would count and be equal to everyone nationally, regardless of the population difference between states. The bigger question of whether it's fair or not for California to have as much weight in electing the President as Hawaii makes for great intellectual theater, but completely misses the point of the reality of our Republic, and is largely irrelevant.

2) Candidates would be forced to actually appeal to the entire country, rather than a minuscule portion of it.
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Old 2012-11-06, 14:25   Link #2186
Xacual
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I know California and some other states are trying to set up a sort of instant win based on popular vote of all the states combined. Basically trying to form a coalition of states that add up to 270 electoral votes and then the combined popular vote of those states, whichever president wins that, gets all the 270 electoral votes.

If that happens we'd see a lot more campaigning here in CA anyway.
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Old 2012-11-06, 14:26   Link #2187
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creb View Post
The best fix for the EC, if we didn't radically change the way State governments and the Federal government worked, is to simply make every State have 10 votes that are distributed to candidates based on the popular vote within that state. Your vote, regardless of your political leanings would have actual meaning then, when it comes to electing the next President.
It would also allow for a tie.
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Old 2012-11-06, 14:35   Link #2188
willx
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^ Oh, and it will also give Alaska and Hawaii the same amount of say as say.. New York, New Jersey and Florida ..
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Old 2012-11-06, 14:40   Link #2189
flying ^
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My potential big $ WINDFALL is about to be realized tonite

Here's with realistic, down-to-earth maps unlike the ones from HuffPuff's been smokin' & peddlin'.





Mr. Romney holds a 10% lead among self-identified independents heading into election day, with nearly another 10% of independent voters undecided or planning on voting for third party candidates.

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Mr. Obama retakes a very slim lead in Ohio in the final Washington Dispatch Ohio Poll of Polls, reducing Mr. Romney's lead in the model to 8 electoral votes.

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Mitt Romney retains his leads in the states of Colorado, Florida, Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire, and Virginia.

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In addition to regaining a small lead in Ohio, President Obama maintains his shrinking leads in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, and also leads in Minnesota.

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Last edited by james0246; 2012-11-06 at 14:53.
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Old 2012-11-06, 14:41   Link #2190
ganbaru
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Dems see slight edge in race for Senate
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/...ace-for-senate
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Old 2012-11-06, 15:00   Link #2191
Reckoner
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They are trying to steal the election.



Quote:
My wife and I went to the voting booths this morning before work. There were 4 older ladies running the show and 3 voting booths that are similar to a science fair project in how they fold up. They had an oval VOTE logo on top center and a cartridge slot on the left that the volunteers used to start your ballot.

I initially selected Obama but Romney was highlighted. I assumed it was being picky so I deselected Romney and tried Obama again, this time more carefully, and still got Romney. Being a software developer, I immediately went into troubleshoot mode. I first thought the calibration was off and tried selecting Jill Stein to actually highlight Obama. Nope. Jill Stein was selected just fine. Next I deselected her and started at the top of Romney's name and started tapping very closely together to find the 'active areas'. From the top of Romney's button down to the bottom of the black checkbox beside Obama's name was all active for Romney. From the bottom of that same checkbox to the bottom of the Obama button (basically a small white sliver) is what let me choose Obama. Stein's button was fine. All other buttons worked fine.

I asked the voters on either side of me if they had any problems and they reported they did not. I then called over a volunteer to have a look at it. She him hawed for a bit then calmly said "It's nothing to worry about, everything will be OK." and went back to what she was doing. I then recorded this video.

There is a lot of speculation that the footage is edited. I'm not a video guy, but if it's possible to prove whether a video has been altered or not, I will GLADLY provide the raw footage to anyone who is willing to do so. The jumping frames are a result of the shitty camera app on my Android phone, nothing more.
Description above. Apparently MSNBC confirmed the story too and the machine is now offline.
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Old 2012-11-06, 15:09   Link #2192
Sumeragi
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Machine malfunction = Stealing election?


I really wish people would take off their tinfoil hats.
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Old 2012-11-06, 15:13   Link #2193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
They are trying to steal the election.





Description above. Apparently MSNBC confirmed the story too and the machine is now offline.
At this point, the computer security community just holds up a Wiley Coyote sign that says, "You bought junk!!! Either own up to it or be accused of vote counting fraud!".

Seriously, a lot of counties bought these pieces of junk and simply won't admit they wasted taxpayer money so badly. Other counties should probably have the officials tarred and feathered.

Even if they were "bank quality ATM" designs (which they aren't, they're crap), the security community wouldn't sign off on these things. There's simply nothing that beats a physical audit trail.

Not a month ago, I had an ATM not dispense cash, it docked my account, and the "investigation" claimed no errors were detected (A large red error message appeared on the screen at the time of the error -- so basically they're saying their error logging sucks). Now, that's an expensive ATM. Here in vote-land, we have crap software/database app running on an insecure operating system on an unsecured box. Pfffft.
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Old 2012-11-06, 15:16   Link #2194
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I had to do this:

YouTube
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Old 2012-11-06, 15:17   Link #2195
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Machine malfunction = Stealing election?


I really wish people would take off their tinfoil hats.
The thing is if it were a miscalibration then it would be miscalibrated all the way through. The fact is every button worked except that one, and that is really FISHY.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
At this point, the computer security community just holds up a Wiley Coyote sign that says, "You bought junk!!! Either own up to it or be accused of vote counting fraud!".
It's seriously a sad joke.
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Old 2012-11-06, 15:18   Link #2196
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So Diebold was originally name ACME corporation?
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Old 2012-11-06, 15:22   Link #2197
Sumeragi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
The thing is if it were a miscalibration then it would be miscalibrated all the way through. The fact is every button worked except that one, and that is really FISHY.
It happens. It happens quite often with such programs, especially in a widely differentiating quality of machines in a country the size of the US. I don't mind having suspicions, but jumping to conclusions is just stupidity in my view.
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Old 2012-11-06, 15:23   Link #2198
willx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
They are trying to steal the election
My sources say no
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Old 2012-11-06, 15:35   Link #2199
james0246
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I used an electronic device, I even recorded my "casting" just to be sure. I encountered no problems, calibration of otherwise, and I expect very few will.

Honestly, when it comes right down to it, it has always been ridiculously easy to rig the elections. Ballots can be thrown away or otherwise rewritten just as easily if not more so than messing with electronic ballots and badly designed machines. The fact that this hasn't happened (in any significant number) is honestly baffling...
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Old 2012-11-06, 15:37   Link #2200
Irenicus
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
They are trying to steal the election.
r/politics/ is displeased. Apparently CNN is also interested.

I would admit I'm skeptical though. It's much easier to mess with data on the back-end, away from prying eyes and open-source developers' outrage. Honestly this is probably one of those one-in-a-million malfunctions, something that should never happen, but if you're gonna use shitty proprietary machines...

And that's why you print your ballots, anyway. Paper trail, paper bleeping trail everything.

And for another reddit-borne "the GOP loves Democracy" posts: election worker fired for altering ballots.

The worst thing? They can't do anything but throw out those compromised ballots.

In other not news, Fox is still fishing for "voter fraud" and coming up short. Oh what was the disenfranchisement of thousands upon thousands for again?
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