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Old 2012-11-08, 09:44   Link #2901
GundamFan0083
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After Obama win, U.S. backs new U.N. arms treaty talks
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8A627J20121107

That stupidity is causing this to happen.

Must Be an Election Year: Bullets Are Flying Off the Shelves

Read more: http://business.time.com/2012/06/19/...#ixzz2BdqeKg9U

Right now where I'm at in CO, you cannot get 5.56 mm NATO, 7.62x39mm (AK round), 7.62 mm NATO, 7.62x63mm (.30-06), .50 BMG, .45 ACP, .40 S&W, or 12 guage 00 buck unless you order it special and are willing to wait months.

FALs, ARs, AK clones (semi-auto look-a-likes), SKS, G3, and other semi-auto only rifles require months of waiting to get.

Magazine prices are skyrocketing.

I've been asking around to the numerous police (local and state, a few of which are inspectors and two are county sheriffs [Adams, and Weld]) that I know why they think people are buying up guns and ammo.

I have asked if they think it's hoarding?
Universal answer so far has been no.

Asked if they think people are sitting on them for their value to rise and resell?
Again ALL of them have said no.

When I asked what they think, their answers have been elusive.
Mostly I get this line.
"More people are training for combat then ever before, they're stocking food, medical supplies, and they're organizing in groups, why do you think that is?"

I get their point and it's scary as hell.
When I ask people at gun shows, Libertarian meetings, heck even in the grocery store where I live what they think of the UN treaty, lately I've been getting the same answer.

"The answer to 1984 is 1776."

Granted, these are just my observations over the past few years since Obama took office. But it's been hundreds of people in my community across a wide range of events, and a large spectrum of different people.

I sincerely hope Obama is wise enough to leave the 2nd amendment alone and not light a match under this already dangerously hot powder keg.
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Old 2012-11-08, 10:04   Link #2902
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..I'm not sure how to respond to those statements above. People preparing for the breakdown of society and the rule of law .. and linking that to negotiations on the proliferation of arms is ..

Well, this is again me not understanding the importance of the right to bear arms, but I will make this willx approved sweeping declaration: "Having civilians possess automatic weapons is not good for the fabric of a civil society."

PS: Oh, but I like guns myself, and shooting them is cool .. unloading a tripod mounted Browning M1919 was very fun .. but doesn't change the statement above

Outlook not so good
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Old 2012-11-08, 10:16   Link #2903
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Their is are entire thread dedicated to the issues of gun control, please do not discuss such issues in this thread. Rather, you could discuss Obama's stance on the 2nd Amendment (which is a little confusing at times) and how that will shape his second term. (Personally, I expect Obama will do little to nothing concerning gun rights; there are too many far more important problems out there that gun rights should be closer to the bottom of his list.)
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Old 2012-11-08, 10:19   Link #2904
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
I get their point and it's scary as hell.
When I ask people at gun shows, Libertarian meetings, heck even in the grocery store where I live what they think of the UN treaty, lately I've been getting the same answer.

"The answer to 1984 is 1776."

Granted, these are just my observations over the past few years since Obama took office. But it's been hundreds of people in my community across a wide range of events, and a large spectrum of different people.
Let the fear mongering begin cause the black jesus is upon us!

Guys like Carl Rove and Rush Limbaugh get away with their half-baked message of extremism thanks to people like yourself because you are already receptive toward such ideas.

Quote:

I sincerely hope Obama is wise enough to leave the 2nd amendment alone and not light a match under this already dangerously hot powder keg.
How about Obama grows a pair of balls now that he is elected and finally addresses issues like gun control or global warming? If it takes lighting a match under hot powder keg, so be it. Not doing anything out of fear of some people just don't bode well with me. How about folks like yourself try to find a solution where you don't lose your guns, and at the same time find a way to ease out the gun violence? It's should not be one or the other. It needs to be in the middle.

For sometimes I've been contemplating creating a thread where we pile our list of mass shooting in US every time it happens. ..... The title obviously is going to read as the General Mass Shooting in US Discussion thread where two or more people got shot today by a guy with gun(s).
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Old 2012-11-08, 10:24   Link #2905
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^I'll take Global Warming over gun control. And yes I do believe Obama will be less "courteous" when it comes to presenting his new laws, budgets and bills (and this has many crazed right-wing individuals going a little more insane).
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Old 2012-11-08, 10:30   Link #2906
monir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
^I'll take Global Warming over gun control. And yes I do believe Obama will be less "courteous" when it comes to presenting his new laws, budgets and bills (and this has many crazed right-wing individuals going a little more insane).
I wish they could be pushed off the fiscal cliff in non-metaphorical sense also. There is growing evidence of serious global calamity upon us as the change in our climate becomes dire, and here we have silly issues like "are they going to take my gun away"?????? How about we talk about why Colorado had such massive fire in it's forestation like never seen before in the modern history of Colorado??????????
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Old 2012-11-08, 10:32   Link #2907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monir
How about Obama grows a pair of balls now that he is elected and finally addresses issues like gun control or global warming? If it takes lighting a match under hot powder keg, so be it. Not doing anything out of fear of some people just don't bode well with me. How about folks like yourself try to find a solution where you don't lose your guns, and at the same time find a way to ease out the gun violence? It's should not be one or the other. It needs to be in the middle.

For sometimes I've been contemplating creating a thread where we pile our list of mass shooting in US every time it happens. .....
If Obama is going to address gun violence he can first address his own contribution to it via "Fast and Furious."

That said, if Obama does what you're asking Monir, the violence will make mass shootings look tame in comparison.
I don't think you've ever had the pleasure of meeting the kinds of people I'm talking about.
Any attempt by Obama to ban anything firearm related is going to be met by a total violation of those laws (i.e. manufacture without license) and instant violence against any law enforcement officer which attempts to enforce such bans/laws.
People will not tolerate another 1994 style AWB or anything else for that matter.
This isn't a joke or an empty threat, it is very real and the local police know this.
Most have said if Obama calls for confiscation, they will be calling in sick that day.
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Last edited by monir; 2012-11-08 at 10:38. Reason: Portion of post removed. See James' post above
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Old 2012-11-08, 10:36   Link #2908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
If Obama is going to address gun violence he can first address his own contribution to it via "Fast and Furious."

That said, if Obama does what you're asking Monir, the violence will make mass shootings look tame in comparison.
I don't think you've ever had the pleasure of meeting the kinds of people I'm talking about.
Any attempt by Obama to ban anything firearm related is going to be met by a total violation of those laws (i.e. manufacture without license) and instant violence against any law enforcement officer which attempts to enforce such bans/laws.
People will not tolerate another 1994 style AWB or anything else for that matter.
This isn't a joke or an empty threat, it is very real and the local police know this.
Most have said if Obama calls for confiscation, they will be calling in sick that day.
Okay... Let's move on.
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Old 2012-11-08, 10:41   Link #2909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
I wish they could be pushed off the fiscal cliff in non-metaphorical sense also. There is growing evidence of serious global calamity upon us as the change in our climate becomes dire, and here we have silly issues like "are they going to take my gun away"?????? How about we talk about why Colorado had such massive fire in it's forestation like never seen before in the modern history of US??????????
Because the idiots in this state stopped controlled defoliage in the 1990s in the same of "protecting the environment" that's why.
I'm all for pollution control, but don't give me the AGW crap because it's total Bullshit and yes I go over to RealClimate to get a good laugh at the stupidy of Gavin Schmidt (yes I know he works for NASA).
HGW is a fact, AGW, not so much.
If Obama wants to stop global warming and cooling he'll have to pass laws to regulate the Sun...good luck with that.
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Old 2012-11-08, 10:43   Link #2910
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
How about we talk about why Colorado had such massive fire in it's forestation like never seen before in the modern history of Colorado??????????
Shhhhh. That's hinting at an actual important issue that has real world consequences. God forbid the literal destruction of the world (as we know it) take precedence over the metaphorical-but-not-really destruction caused by a Democrat/Liberal/Progressive/Black President. It is easier and more quantifiable to moan about gun right versus serious issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
Henrik Svensmark has been debunked multiple times over the years, so please do not taint the discussion with false information.

Last edited by james0246; 2012-11-08 at 17:51.
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Old 2012-11-08, 10:47   Link #2911
willx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Shhhhh. That's hinting at an actual important issue that has real world consequences. God forbid the literal destruction of the world take precedence over the metaphorical-but-not-really destruction caused by Democrat/Liberal/Progressive/Black President. It is easier and more quantifiable to moan about gun right versus serious issues.
It's a shame that CRU controversy put the legitimacy of these issues back into doubt in the public sphere and deniers will wave it around like absolutely proof that "Everything's fine, carry on"

Worth repeating:
Bloomberg Businessweek: 'It's Global Warming, Stupid'

http://www.businessweek.com/articles...warming-stupid

Outlook is negative
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Old 2012-11-08, 10:49   Link #2912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
If Obama wants to stop global warming and cooling he'll have to pass laws to regulate the Sun...good luck with that.
What ever is the cause, the growing onslaught of weather related evidence is REAL. Perhaps that's why some people are so afraid of how Obama will come to take their guns away cause we all know the only way to protect yourself from weather is either by shooting at it or by ignoring the evidence all around you?
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Old 2012-11-08, 11:01   Link #2913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
^I'll take Global Warming over gun control. And yes I do believe Obama will be less "courteous" when it comes to presenting his new laws, budgets and bills (and this has many crazed right-wing individuals going a little more insane).
I got that feeling that he isnt going to be too "courteous" this time around. He knows that there is too many issues right now needs to be taken care of and trying to pamper to GOP isnt going to work any more.

About Global Warming, there is ways to combat it and there is other paths as well like beefing up the space exploration (this is what I really want) and other methods. Right now, Gun Control is important but right now, its like 4 or 5 on the pres agenda.
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Old 2012-11-08, 11:04   Link #2914
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Henrik Svensmark has been debunked multiple times over the years, so please do not taint the discussion with false information.
Debunked by who?
Gavin Schmidt, Michael Mann, and Phil Jones?
The three stooges of the lie that is AGW?

This is why we as a society are in the shit we're in.
We've got two religious cults vying for control.
One the one side we've got the Cult of Climatology that falsely believes the world is coming to an end over fartgas, and on the other side we've got a bunch of Dominionist freaks who think the world is coming to an end because gays want to get married.

Both sides are ridiculous and I don't care if they've got a Lab coat or a Priest's Robe on, they're both snake-oil salesmen and I want nothing to do with them.

My answer to both is this, the sun causes the warming and cooling cycle, and no you're not going to be Raptured and Jesus is not coming back.

The crap some of you people are willing to believe is just amazing.

If Obama pushes Cap and Trade it will cause fuel prices to explode and the economy to tank...immediately.
I find it telling when the climate-freaks on the one hand scream for gun-control because people are dying but don't give a rat's ass that their green agenda will cause the deaths of millions due to starvation.

Now if Obama actually pushes for a realistic means of replacing our carbon based fuels with something viable, I'd be all for it.
But as it stands, all Cap and Trade will do is cause suffering and a further depreciation of the standard of living.

Oh, and as an aside, Henrik Svensmark was vindicated by the CERN data.
http://ktwop.wordpress.com/2011/08/2...oud-formation/

But as the saying goes:

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher (1788 – 1860)
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Last edited by GundamFan0083; 2012-11-08 at 11:15.
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Old 2012-11-08, 11:21   Link #2915
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So perhaps one of the things I'm most looking forward to next election cycle is precisely how Republican's plan on trying to pander to women and "minority" groups now. It almost feels like some of their stategists just realized as the votes were coming in, ".....OH SHIT RIGHT WOMEN AND BLACK PEOPLE CAN VOTE NOW OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD!" the way they've handled the changing demographics and reaching out to non-rich white people so incredibly poorly. It's like....people can see what they're all about when you make it play as day, you can't hide this ugly stuff in todays era of social media and instant access to the latest going on in politics like you could in the smoke filled rooms with them good ol' boys of the 50's. It's not the 50's anymore and the sooner the GOP realizes that the sooner they'll be back on track towards relevancy.

Somehow I don't think they do though, and if I'm to make a bold prediction right now, the way they choose to address this problem is not actually through a shift in policy towards being less racist and misogynistic, but rather simply run a female candidate (watch it be Bachmann which would be precious) and/or a "minority". Watch for this in 2016 and for it to end up in embarrassment as they manage to botch the whole thing when people start to see through their puppet candidate for bad party driven policy the same way they did with ol' Mitt.
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Old 2012-11-08, 11:25   Link #2916
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
Debunked by who?
Gavin Schmidt, Michael Mann, and Phil Jones?
The three stooges of the lie that is AGW?

This is why we as a society are in the shit we're in.
We've got two religious cults vying for control.
One the one side we've got the Cult of Climatology that falsely believes the world is coming to an end over fartgas, and on the other side we've got a bunch of Dominionist freaks who think the world is coming to an end because gays want to get married.

Both sides are ridiculous and I don't care if they've got a Lab coat or a Priest's Robe on, they're both snake-oil salesmen and I want nothing to do with them.

My answer to both is this, the sun causes the warming and cooling cycle, and no you're not going to be Raptured and Jesus is not coming back.

The crap some of you people are willing to believe is just amazing.

If Obama pushes Cap and Trade it will cause fuel prices to explode and the economy to tank...immediately.
I find it telling when the climate-freaks on the one hand scream for gun-control because people are dying but don't give a rat's ass that their green agenda will cause the deaths of millions due to starvation.

Now if Obama actually pushes for a realistic means of replacing our carbon based fuels with something viable, I'd be all for it.
But as it stands, all Cap and Trade will do is cause suffering and a further depreciation of the standard of living.

Oh, and as an aside, Henrik Svensmark was vindicated by the CERN data.
http://ktwop.wordpress.com/2011/08/2...oud-formation/

But as the saying goes:

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher (1788 – 1860)
And the stuff you are throwing out isnt great either, so which one is more important for you right now:

Global Warming (as of right now, Northeast is getting hammered by Snow right after Sandy did its thing) or Gun Control

Fiscal Cliff (If that doesnt get done, we will be worst off, then the U.S first went through this mess)

Gun Control
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Old 2012-11-08, 11:32   Link #2917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neki Ecko View Post
And the stuff you are throwing out isnt great either, so which one is more important for you right now:

Global Warming (as of right now, Northeast is getting hammered by Snow right after Sandy did its thing) or Gun Control
The Norheast is supposed to be getting hammered by snow right now. It's fall. Doh!

Quote:
Fiscal Cliff (If that doesnt get done, we will be worst off, then the U.S first went through this mess)
That is the number one issue right now, but I've yet to see Obama put forward a viable plan to address it. Spending isn't going to fix this problem.

Quote:
Gun Control
When a fundamental right is threatening it is a very BIG deal and is a major issue.
Kinda of like abortion or gay marriage. Both are 4th, and 10th amendment rights (protection of person, no power granted by constitution shall be construed to deny a right...held by the people).
So yes, they are all important but the number one issue facing Obama should be fixing this economy.
He shouldn't even be talking about fantasies like AGW.
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Old 2012-11-08, 11:33   Link #2918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
Debunked by who?
Gavin Schmidt, Michael Mann, and Phil Jones?
The three stooges of the lie that is AGW?
No, Mike Lockwood, Peter Laut, Claus Froehlich, Terry Sloan, Benjamin Laken, Enric Pallé, and Hiroko Miyahara amongst others. All doctors, scientists and professors that look at every expanding and evolving data from all points of interest.

That being said, you've already fundamentally misunderstood Svensmark. He is not blaming the sun for Global Warming, but rather Cosmic Rays on cloud formation (even green house gases). And he is correct. But, he has so greatly exaggerated their importance as to create an almost groupthink mentality amongst global warming critics (who fundamentally do not understand his work).

As it is, Svensmark has a definite place in the scientific community since he helps to expand the understanding of the climate change that is occurring.

Additionally, Jan Esper has been debunked many times over the years as well. (That being said, I find it weird that you've cited two completely opposed scientists to state your beliefs.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
I find it telling when the climate-freaks on the one hand scream for gun-control because people are dying but don't give a rat's ass that their green agenda will cause the deaths of millions due to starvation.
It doesn't surprise me that you would be a fan of Lyndon LaRouche.
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Old 2012-11-08, 11:41   Link #2919
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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
No, Mike Lockwood, Peter Laut, Claus Froehlich, Terry Sloan, Benjamin Laken, Enric Pallé, and Hiroko Miyahara amongst others. All doctors, scientists and professors that look at every expanding and evolving data from all points of interest.
Who got their base info from Gavin Schmidt, Phil Jones, and Michael Mann before they conducted their research.
Once the waters are poisoned it was a given that many scientists would get duped

Quote:
That being said, you've already fundamentally misunderstood Svensmark. He is not blaming the sun for Global Warming, but rather Cosmic Rays on cloud formation (even green house gases).

As it is, Svensmark has a definite place in the scientific community since he helps to expand the understanding of the climate change that is occurring.

Additionally, Jan Esper has been debunked many times over the years as well.
No, I understand Svensmark quite well. Watched all of his presentations, and have read his papers in english.
Jan is being "debunked" by the same Cult of Climatology clowns that attacked Henrik. It's like the Jesus freaks who keep trying to tell us the world is only 6000 years old, the evidence doesn't support it and the same can be said for AGW.

Quote:
It doesn't surprise me that you would be a fan of Lyndon LaRouche.
Gregory Murphy is the author of that article not Lyndon, nice try but your Red Herring isn't going to work there James.

The fact is even Obama understands what will happen with Cap and Trade:



So don't tell me that Murphy is wrong, becuase even BamBam knows what will happen.
He just doesn't care.
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Old 2012-11-08, 11:41   Link #2920
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
The Norheast is supposed to be getting hammered by snow right now. It's Well close to winter. Doh!



That is the number one issue right now, but I've yet to see Obama put forward a viable plan to address it. Spending isn't going to fix this problem.



When a fundamental right is threatening it is a very BIG deal and is a major issue.
Kinda of like abortion or gay marriage. Both are 4th, and 10th amendment rights (protection of person, no power granted by constitution shall be construed to deny a right...held by the people).
So yes, they are all important but the number one issue facing Obama should be fixing this economy.
He shouldn't even be talking about fantasies like AGW.
Okay, then what would you do about the budget and let him take care of his business, he got reelected for a good reason.
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