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Old 2012-11-08, 11:51   Link #2921
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
Gregory Murphy is the author of that article not Lyndon, nice try but your Red Herring isn't going to work there James.
What red herring? I based my statement off of your combined posts in this thread, not simply the fact that you are posting an article from a LaRouche magazine.
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Old 2012-11-08, 12:04   Link #2922
ArchmageXin
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Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
After Obama win, U.S. backs new U.N. arms treaty talks
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8A627J20121107

That stupidity is causing this to happen.

Must Be an Election Year: Bullets Are Flying Off the Shelves

Read more: http://business.time.com/2012/06/19/...#ixzz2BdqeKg9U

Right now where I'm at in CO, you cannot get 5.56 mm NATO, 7.62x39mm (AK round), 7.62 mm NATO, 7.62x63mm (.30-06), .50 BMG, .45 ACP, .40 S&W, or 12 guage 00 buck unless you order it special and are willing to wait months.

FALs, ARs, AK clones (semi-auto look-a-likes), SKS, G3, and other semi-auto only rifles require months of waiting to get.

Magazine prices are skyrocketing.

I've been asking around to the numerous police (local and state, a few of which are inspectors and two are county sheriffs [Adams, and Weld]) that I know why they think people are buying up guns and ammo.

I have asked if they think it's hoarding?
Universal answer so far has been no.

Asked if they think people are sitting on them for their value to rise and resell?
Again ALL of them have said no.

When I asked what they think, their answers have been elusive.
Mostly I get this line.
"More people are training for combat then ever before, they're stocking food, medical supplies, and they're organizing in groups, why do you think that is?"

I get their point and it's scary as hell.
When I ask people at gun shows, Libertarian meetings, heck even in the grocery store where I live what they think of the UN treaty, lately I've been getting the same answer.

"The answer to 1984 is 1776."

Granted, these are just my observations over the past few years since Obama took office. But it's been hundreds of people in my community across a wide range of events, and a large spectrum of different people.

I sincerely hope Obama is wise enough to leave the 2nd amendment alone and not light a match under this already dangerously hot powder keg.
Obama pass (or even asked the congress to) zero laws restricting gun ownership as the president.

Romney Banned assault rifles in MA back as governor.

Just saying some of these gunowners are so far from reality it is not even funny.
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Old 2012-11-08, 12:25   Link #2923
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
Well, the problem is that the "moderate" conservatives are now all part of the Democratic Party. To be fair, you could argue that besides maybe FDR through Johnson, the Democratic Party has actually been more the "conservative" party, while the Republicans were the liberal party. After FDR, the Democrats expanded to include social liberals. Currently the moderate conservatives and social liberals are uneasy bedfellows while the opposition is dominated by radicals.

If the Republican party were to bite the dust, I could easily see the Democratic party splintering into conservative and social liberal halves. You could already see the fractures in the party when it was more powerful from 2008-2010.
Now I know the right word!
That's partially true, their financial "policies" are indeed radical in the sense that they support large corporation and trusts, eliminating mid- and small-scale competitors, the opposite of what classical capitalism supports and much closer to what P.R. of China does. Socially though, not only the american conservatives, but in all anglo-saxon cultures, their policies are typically conservative, like the theocracy of Iran and military state of Israel, anti-feminist, anti-gay, anti-free-speech, anti-social-support, anti-foreigners... generally reactionary to any kind of progress or controversy, since Luther, Ali, etc. doubted their leaders' divine right to interpret their messiah, prophet or however second hand accounts and teachings they want to believe in.
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Old 2012-11-08, 12:41   Link #2924
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
sweeping declaration: "Having civilians possess automatic weapons is not good for the fabric of a civil society."
Possession of automatic weapons is already outlawed, just saying

Realistically, I doubt Obama is going to do much as far as gun control goes, and neither would the democrats in general. I doubt they want to lose the chance to reclaim some of those house seats in 2014.

Also, Gundamfan, you can always order the ammo online if it's that bad in CO locally, I haven't really noticed any shortages from the sites that I usually buy from

Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
What ever is the cause, the growing onslaught of weather related evidence is REAL.
My issue with the whole AGW debated is that there are so much money and political interest mixed into the pile it's hard to figure out what is tainted and what isn't, both in the cause and the effect department.
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Old 2012-11-08, 12:47   Link #2925
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@kyp - Er, if I recall the Federal Assault Weapons Ban (AWB) expired in 2004 and was not renewed. I'm talking about assault rifles, not machine guns.. I believe GundamFan was talking about private ownership and seeking ammo for weapons such as the FN FAL which is a light automatic rifle .. I could be wrong but I'm not American so I'm not 100% sure

Re: AGW -- Well, we're a fact and reason based society right? I propose we do a grand experiment! Purposely puncture a hole in the ozone layer or purposely spread greenhouse gases above the "Competitive Enterprise Institute" and see what happens! I mean .. there should be no ill effects of any kind right? Now.. how do you get enough giant fans to keep those clouds there..

Cannot currently predict the outcome
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Old 2012-11-08, 12:53   Link #2926
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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher (1788 – 1860)
-"...And Federally taxable." Gallagher (1980s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
@kyp - Er, if I recall the Federal Assault Weapons Ban (AWB) expired in 2004 and was not renewed. I'm talking about assault rifles, not machine guns.. I believe GundamFan was talking about private ownership and seeking ammo for weapons such as the FN FAL which is a light automatic rifle ..

Re: AGW -- Well, we're a fact and reason based society right? I propose we do a grand experiment! Purposely puncture a hole in the ozone layer or purposely spread greenhouse gases above the "Competitive Enterprise Institute" and see what happens! I mean .. there should be no ill effects of any kind right? Now.. how do you get enough giant fans to keep those clouds there..

Cannot currently predict the outcome

The Assault Weapons Ban is media word nonsense. Assault rifles have been banned since the 1930s as they are classed with machine guns. "Assault weapon" is a made up term for guns that look like assault rifles, but aren't. The US M1 Garand uses the same ammo as the FN FAL, and it isn't a assault rifle
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Old 2012-11-08, 13:06   Link #2927
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Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post

My issue with the whole AGW debated is that there are so much money and political interest mixed into the pile it's hard to figure out what is tainted and what isn't, both in the cause and the effect department.
I, in general, simply hate any attempts at fear mongering to subvert or suppress any issue where we're forced to take sides and no compromise. Politicizing issues like the climate, or global warming won't stop the effect that are increasingly evident. Whether or not we can effectively do something about it rather than get in the way of doing anything is what at stake. Yeah, I agree with you to a certain degree, but the affect can't be readily brushed aside as someone's agenda even if we don't all agree with what's causing it.
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Old 2012-11-08, 13:07   Link #2928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
@kyp - Er, if I recall the Federal Assault Weapons Ban (AWB) expired in 2004 and was not renewed. I'm talking about assault rifles, not machine guns.. I believe GundamFan was talking about private ownership and seeking ammo for weapons such as the FN FAL which is a light automatic rifle .. I could be wrong but I'm not American so I'm not 100% sure
Without going too much into it, as we have another thread for this, the term "assault weapon" is usually misused in gun control legistlations - especially in the AWB. As a Marine, I laugh at the qualification they use. This includes "automatic" weapons as well, as most people think full-auto AKs or submachine guns, when in reality anything that's not a muzzle-loader, revolver, and bolt/pump-action is automated to some extent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by willx View Post
Re: AGW -- Well, we're a fact and reason based society right? I propose we do a grand experiment! Purposely puncture a hole in the ozone layer or purposely spread greenhouse gases above the "Competitive Enterprise Institute" and see what happens! I mean .. there should be no ill effects of any kind right? Now.. how do you get enough giant fans to keep those clouds there..

Cannot currently predict the outcome
The global weather system is a bit too complicated for that to work, or carry much meaning

Is the globe warming? yes; does humans contribute to the warming? very likely, but as for how much.... hard to say either way; Is warming going to permanently destroy the planet like some of the AGW proponents have been saying? not remotely true, unless we're all living on a planet that has already been destroyed multiple times

Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
I, in general, simply hate any attempts at fear mongering to subvert or suppress any issue where we're forced to take sides and no compromise. Politicizing issues like the climate, or global warming won't stop the effect that are increasingly evident. Whether or not we can effectively do something about it rather than get in the way of doing anything is what at stake. Yeah, I agree with you to a certain degree, but the affect can't be readily brushed aside as someone's agenda even if we don't all agree with what's causing it.
Agreed, I wish the politics can stay out of the science and just let the people who are qualified to figure out what's really going on without political influence, instead of the mess we have atm.

Never gonna happen though :/
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Old 2012-11-08, 13:26   Link #2929
Ithekro
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The problem people tend to have over Global Warming, is that its been politicized into only being about us humans. We are the beginning and ending of it as far as politics goes. When it comes up, the fight over its existance entirely revolves around us. Those that sign on to the idea are seen as thinking humans caused it and must fix it. Those that are against it think that we humans could not have done enough to cause any of this and should not be held accountable for what they see as a natural cycle.

That the debate in politics has degenerated to a battle over if humans did or did not cause global warming, entirely distracts from anything meaningful.

Who cares if we did it or not. The issue should be to find out if we can fix it, or if we even need to fix it. If this is a natural cycle, would us "fixing" it make things worse? Is the Climate change natural? We have evidance that the Earth warms and cools over time and regions change. Ice Ages happen, and tropical regions expand and contract. If it is unnatural and our efforts are making things worse, than we have to prove it and that is trickier that just figuring out if they cycles are off or not.

That isn't to say that we can't effect it, making it happen faster than it should, not altering the cycle. It is just that our planetary record keeping doesn't go far enough back to know how the changes happen and over what period of time. Only that regions change over time (fossil records are good but narrowing down to a year over the course of a million years is tricky. But you need to have a fossil from what the changes happened, and the planet does't always give us the fossils we want).

The secondary problem is the enviromental laws that spring up "because of global warming". How many of those are real and how many are excuses to place fines, taxes, and other methods of gaining money for either the government or various corperations? How effective are they? Are they helping or hurting the cycles?
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Old 2012-11-08, 13:32   Link #2930
willx
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FYI, in 90-99% of my posts I am either being sarcastic or facetious.. So no I don't expect to actually conduct an experiment over that particular headquarters..

@kyp -- Understand. Let me revise my SWEEPING DECLARATION: "All firearms should be highly controlled" I'm done now. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
The secondary problem is the enviromental laws that spring up "because of global warming". How many of those are real and how many are excuses to place fines, taxes, and other methods of gaining money for either the government or various corperations? How effective are they? Are they helping or hurting the cycles?
This partially reminds me about a story that came out in the news about laws banning illicit substances (drugs) falling by the way side as current "home chemists" have figured out how to release synthetic drugs that are different at the molecular level so are constantly beating the "definition" of those laws..

Reply hazy, try again later

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/20...etic-drug-war/
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Old 2012-11-08, 13:56   Link #2931
monir
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Originally Posted by kyp275 View Post



Agreed, I wish the politics can stay out of the science and just let the people who are qualified to figure out what's really going on without political influence, instead of the mess we have atm.

Never gonna happen though :/
Oh, it will happen, and will have to..... may be at a huge human cost, but it will have to. Can you imagine if something like the Japan's Eartquake/Tsunami/Nuclear disaster happened anywhere in the US? We are so under-prepared that it's not even funny. A couple of feet of snow two winters ago shut down Washington, DC for a whole day. Yeah, I get the point folks like Gundamfan's like to make about how we can't prevent nature, but we can prepare ourselves to cope with them better can't we? We need to start somewhere rather than pretending it's not happening and/or the constant attempt to stall to do something about it. Something got to give sooner or later.

On a lighter note, anyone's got a link to that clip where Megan Kelly tells off Carl Rove where she says and I quote:
"Is this the math that you do as a Republican to make yourself feel better, or is this real....?"
She brings that up when Carl Rove was upset how Fox News called Ohio in favor of Obama when only 74% votes were in. Also I learned after watching Colbert Report from election night that California had a proposition that would require the pornstar's to use protection. Did that bill pass? May be Ithekro can fill us in....
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Old 2012-11-08, 14:09   Link #2932
willx
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Hawaii sends nation's first Asian American woman to Senate

"I bring quadruple diversity to the Senate," Hirono said at a rally earlier in the campaign. "I'm a woman. I'll be the first Asian woman ever to be elected to the U.S. Senate. I am an immigrant. I am a Buddhist. When I said this at one of my gatherings, they said, 'Yes, but are you gay?' and I said, 'Nobody's perfect.'"

http://www.mercurynews.com/elections/ci_21947729

Signs point to yes (close enough)
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Old 2012-11-08, 14:19   Link #2933
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Originally Posted by willx View Post
"I bring quadruple diversity to the Senate," Hirono said at a rally earlier in the campaign. "I'm a woman. I'll be the first Asian woman ever to be elected to the U.S. Senate. I am an immigrant. I am a Buddhist. When I said this at one of my gatherings, they said, 'Yes, but are you gay?' and I said, 'Nobody's perfect.
Hah! ......
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Old 2012-11-08, 14:32   Link #2934
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There was a Proposition on Human Trafficing that won in all counties in California (Prop 35), where the only group that seemed to be against was "Erotic services".

If there was one for porn stars to use protection this year, it must have been a local messure: *found* Messure B in Los Angeles County

And it "passed". Though the ballots in Los Angeles are still counting those that were mailed in and would take two to three weeks for a final result.

The Porn industry had threated to leave the state if passed.

One can find all the California Propositions and Messures (or a way to find them) here. It also lists all the proposed ones that didn't make it.
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Old 2012-11-08, 15:02   Link #2935
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
There was a Proposition on Human Trafficing that won in all counties in California (Prop 35), where the only group that seemed to be against was "Erotic services".

If there was one for porn stars to use protection this year, it must have been a local messure: *found* Messure B in Los Angeles County

And it "passed". Though the ballots in Los Angeles are still counting those that were mailed in and would take two to three weeks for a final result.

The Porn industry had threated to leave the state if passed..
That loud collective groan which I heard all the way in East Coast must have been from the millions of teenagers who can't vote yet. It's must be a sad day for them where they will have to settle for fornication that has been deemed safe.

Good job on passing the Human Trafficking proposition, however... Thanks for the info Ithekro.
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Old 2012-11-08, 15:07   Link #2936
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Well it only is for porn actors. Doesn't cover other fornicators. And only in Los Angeles County.
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Old 2012-11-08, 15:13   Link #2937
monir
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Well it only is for porn actors. Doesn't cover other fornicators. And only in Los Angeles County.
Got it! I guess the intended-goal here was to see if it would pass in one county and if it does, then perhaps start a wider push which ultimately may lead to a state-wide ban eventually. Future will tell. I still find it hilarious, but it also tells me Conservatism is still alive in California, especially when I read in the list that "End the Death Penalty" did not pass.
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Old 2012-11-08, 15:20   Link #2938
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I feel like the protection for porn stars thing could end up getting overturned by the state supreme court. It's akin to saying you can't show smoking in movies because it's 'unsafe' to smoke.
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Old 2012-11-08, 15:23   Link #2939
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That one failed by about half a million votes. Possibly because there are people that really don't want to pay taxes for someone to live the rest of their life in prison (which seems to be more confortable than it was in the 1930s). The arguement is, why spend X thousands to millions of dollars on someone who will be in prison for the rest of their life, be it one day or 80 years, rather than spend less and kill them.

Many of those would rather we return to firing squads or use snipers at the prison courtyards to execute sentance (fear of nt knowing when the sniper will execute you is thought might change the prespective of people wanting to revolve in and out of prison). Some say they'd volunteer to pull the trigger and only charge the state for the price of the bullet. (even give the criminal his or her choice of caliber to be used on them).

They'd probably like a Prop that sped up the execution process rather than having people sit on Death Row for twenty or more years.
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Old 2012-11-08, 15:33   Link #2940
kyp275
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
The arguement is, why spend X thousands to millions of dollars on someone who will be in prison for the rest of their life, be it one day or 80 years, rather than spend less and kill them.
Actually, it's usually more expensive to carry out a death sentence than life imprisonment in many cases, as the mandatory appeals and such often drags out the case for years, sometimes decades, with associated legal/court costs on top of the cost of imprisonment of the convict during those period.

Personally I think the death sentence should be kept around, but there are definite improvements that should be made in the system, especially when you consider the number of deathrow inmates who were eventually exonerated/proved innocent.

For cases like Loughner etc. where there is literally zero doubt on the other hand, a quick trip to the courtyard with a 9mm would be nice.
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