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Old 2012-10-29, 17:58   Link #1001
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperRead View Post
Hi i am new here and I wanted to post this idea. I just want to know if my idea is possible.

So a "Personal Realtiy" is basically a person's own view of the world or a personalize version of it, base own the individual own thoughts and ideas.

a person can input new set of value to this "Personal Realtiy" to increase thier own esper abiliities like Accel when he first awaken or the Dark May project, which is about inputing Accel's thought patterns into other esper users to futher advance thier own power.

Misaka Tabikake is saided that he can "see what the world lacks."
A Personal Reality can be seen as a world and thus he can help a esper develop his/or her power,by helping esper realise something important, kinda like how a therapist works or the Dark may project.

In theory; but what you're talking about is a form of mind altering technique where you essentially change a person's fundamental character and personality. I don't think a simple therapy would work for most individuals otherwise there wouldn't be so many Level 1s and 0s. And don't forget in the Dark May project, both surviving test subjects had a part of Accelerator's personality input into them as well via supercomputer.
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Old 2012-10-30, 09:43   Link #1002
SuperRead
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Well I was thinking that Tabikake or someone with similiar ability will be able to come up with new input/ values that are helpful for power development but different for each individual since he can see whats "lacking". Tabikake can find what the person is lacking to be certain level.

The therapy and Dark May were just ways/processes that I am suggesting for someone with Tabikake's ability can understand a little of each individual personal reality and then help them realize whats missing.
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Old 2012-10-30, 10:00   Link #1003
Chaos2Frozen
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Some how, I get the feeling you're misinterpreting Tabikake's skill set...

Regardless, I doubt it's as easy as you've said; there's a reason why so few test subjects have positive results from those experiments. If therapy was all you need, they would have grabbed a few mindreaders to help out.
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Old 2012-11-03, 03:25   Link #1004
judasmartel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperRead View Post
Well I was thinking that Tabikake or someone with similiar ability will be able to come up with new input/ values that are helpful for power development but different for each individual since he can see whats "lacking". Tabikake can find what the person is lacking to be certain level.

The therapy and Dark May were just ways/processes that I am suggesting for someone with Tabikake's ability can understand a little of each individual personal reality and then help them realize whats missing.
If Tabikake ever meets Touma and figures out what he lacks...
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Old 2012-11-03, 20:40   Link #1005
Javiersansano
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considering that IB "harmonizes"... "what is harmony"... can it be rewritten? "could it be linked to Touma Personal Reality, which is the same personal reality as any normal person?
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Old 2012-11-04, 00:05   Link #1006
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personal reality........... for now we can't say that Touma's personal reality can affect it because by the words of the magician around him that knows the real nature of Imagine Breaker. It can be upgraded. Meaning it can change but the personal reality of a person can't be change or upgraded. Its like altering your inner world or thought process if you try to change your personal reality. You will become a different person altogether if you try to change it and by the looks of it for the case of Imagine Breaker. It isn't the case.

To them killing the host and transferring it to someone that they can easily control is a lot faster than trying to alter the current host.
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Old 2012-11-04, 13:31   Link #1007
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
personal reality........... for now we can't say that Touma's personal reality can affect it because by the words of the magician around him that knows the real nature of Imagine Breaker. It can be upgraded. Meaning it can change but the personal reality of a person can't be change or upgraded. Its like altering your inner world or thought process if you try to change your personal reality. You will become a different person altogether if you try to change it and by the looks of it for the case of Imagine Breaker. It isn't the case.

To them killing the host and transferring it to someone that they can easily control is a lot faster than trying to alter the current host.
But apparently, the whole Awakening thing involves altering one's Personal Reality... If I remember right, Aiwass has stated that such a thing is possible for Touma.

We all know that IB harmonizes, but only what is touched by the right fist it is contained... Now, what happens if Touma can change his Personal reality, allowing him to perceive the whole "reality", calculate it, re-calculate it to whatever he thinks would be a proper state of harmony, and rewrite IB with that same new state of harmony?

could he... I don't know... alter the whole reality............of course, I'm only imagining that this would be the Deus ex Machina the author will apply for the end of the series
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Old 2012-11-04, 14:31   Link #1008
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Using Touma's own personal reality to affect Imagine Breaker...... but personal reality is pertaining to esper abilities and so far Touma doesn't have it. I'm not even sure if he has AIM though.... I'm sure he doesn't have AIM because IB exist. It dispels the AIM field. Though if IB was extracted then maybe and since IB is acting as a seal.

Wait can the being sealed inside Touma connected to AIM?

So far as long as IB is connected to Touma I don't think he can use personal reality effect like an esper but probably every individual has their own personal reality. It includes the magicians and mundane. The science side just find a way to use it. So Touma having a personal reality isn't impossible but using it to affect IB looks like is impossible for the time being. Until further information was release pertaining IB.

We still don't know how IB updates its database on what's natural on the planet and what's distorted or altered by supernatural means.
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Old 2012-11-04, 14:53   Link #1009
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wilfri I think you made a wrong post. This isn't image thread and even if I know that only magic can help biribiri to get breast upper this is still not the thread for that.
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Old 2012-11-04, 15:18   Link #1010
Okashira
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
I'm not even sure if he has AIM though....
It has been hinted a bunch of times that Touma doesn't have AIM field, first Kazagiri stated it, as if Touma had AIM he would "help" form Kazakiri's constitution of "self", but the element of "the power of negation" would create a contradiction that would render her unable to exist.

Second is, Touma's own statements. Even though you are a level 0 you are still "an esper", so even level 0s can partake in tests such as the Columbus egg and a bunch of others like guessing which card is it while blindfolded. Touma can't really interact with those tests and gets by as however he can, that's why he pretty much considers himself the lowest rankered level 0 in the city.

I don't remember if Kumokawa also said something about it when she said that the Imagine Breaker wasn't a gemstone.
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Last edited by Okashira; 2012-11-05 at 11:50.
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Old 2012-11-04, 16:06   Link #1011
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okashira View Post
I don't remember if Kumokawa also said something about it when she said that the Imagine Breaker wasn't a gemstone.
Her words were along the lines of 'Don't classify it as a gemstone because it's probably not the same.'
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Old 2012-11-08, 20:48   Link #1012
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by ~Greed~ View Post
You mean needing an epiphany and the powers needing to be divine are speculation? Pretty sure that both were backed up to some extent in series, it was heavily implied that an epiphany was needed, and that fact that Kakine and Accelerator's esper powers are different than every other esper power is also pretty much confirmed. And yes, I know that "awakening" is a fan term.
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
isn't awaken a proper term use on Kakine and Accelerator's winged mode? though not sure on epiphany because its more like fan speculation but its an interpretation about scenes where the black wing and white wing emerge. Both Kakine and Accelerator had a change of mind set or view. For accelerator's black wing its anger and the angel mode is acceptance or free from past shackles of hatred while for Kakine. He got to full burst wing mode is after realizing something about his powers.
Sigh, such a shounen way of thinking is going to cause problems...

Where does it say that an epiphany is needed? If anything, I found it more plausible that he had took in some data rather than have a change of heart. Is it any coincidence that both scenario the two espers are exposed to the foreign data of Angels? Accelerator took in the Song Index used to free Kazakiri... Kakine saw Accelerator's Angel wings... Accelerator gains white wings after inputing data from Aiwass, lambskin, and the data on Kazakiri...


Also while I agree they're different, 'divine' is a fanmade term. Nowhere is it an official classification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
Though its heavily implied that both Accelerator and Kakine are special which even in new testament vol 5 they are called infinite destruction and creation. It doesn't mean that they are the only ones who can awaken.
You make it sound cooler than it is; basically it's just that one of them destroys while the out creates something new. We already know that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Greed~ View Post
Wait......you don't actually think that there is any possible way for Mikoto to awaken do you? I mean hell is more likely to freeze over than for her to get that kind of powerup.
No, I'm more concern about how all of these things are slowly taken as facts when in truth it's all guesswork.

But when I think about it... It'll be fun to watch you all fall into the brink of despair when all that you hold true in this world gets smashed like a house of cards, and like the [Steady State theory] all of your speculations would be proven wrong...

...And Mikoto gets her wings

Last edited by Chaos2Frozen; 2012-11-08 at 21:04.
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Old 2012-11-08, 21:39   Link #1013
Miraluka
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Vol.15 narrative refers to Accelerator's and Kakine's as divine powers.
The word used when they grow their wings, specially Accelerator, is "kakusei" wchic literally can be translated as "awakening", even vol.1 used kakusei on Index but in a different way of writing though.

Mikoto awakens every morning .
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Old 2012-11-08, 21:45   Link #1014
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Vol.15 narrative refers to Accelerator's and Kakine's as divine powers.
What's the exact line?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
The word used when they grow their wings, specially Accelerator, is "kakusei" wchic literally can be translated as "awakening", even vol.1 used kakusei on Index but in a different way of writing though.
It's a word, but it's not an official term.

We just use it because we needed to label it as something.

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Mikoto awakens every morning .
That's my joke
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Old 2012-11-08, 22:57   Link #1015
leukrota
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Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Mikoto awakens every morning .
Kuroko is also working hard to help her awakening... to the yuri side...

I doubt she'll succeed though.
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Old 2012-11-09, 08:06   Link #1016
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Question Questions regarding the Idol system

I've been thinking about the Idol system and there are a few questions I'd like to ask:
  • What do you consider the limits as to what can/can't be used as Idols? (So far we have had various figures, objects and concepts from religion, mythology, folklore, certain practices, nature and at least one fairy tale story) (I'd imagine there would be at least some limits, even if it is just to what people believe in)
  • What do you consider the limiting factors for whether something can be used as an Idol, how much power can be drawn and what attributes of the Idol can be applied? (e.g. the power the original had to begin with, the user's belief, the belief of other people, the quality of the representation etc)
  • If multiple Idols are being utilised by a single user and their attributes conflict, do you think the consequences of the conflict would depend on the nature of the Idols?
  • What do you think are the limitations and consequences of shifting between certain Idols?

Last edited by Inept Forum User; 2012-11-09 at 08:16. Reason: Trying to put more thoughts into words.
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Old 2012-11-09, 08:11   Link #1017
ellifeedn
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If you clone Jesus, would he be as powerful as he originally was because of Idol Theory?
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Old 2012-11-09, 08:25   Link #1018
tsunade666
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the questions ask about idol system reminds me most of nasu terms of magic with if many people are performing the same magic it will grow weak but that's nasu. Tamni is different.

Even if all the people use the same magic it won't effect it (except for the special ones) but the more mundane ones are the same.

The magic system in tamni doesn't use magic circuits like in nasu. Magic in nasu isn't for everyone because you need a circuit to do so but in tamni you don't need it. magic in tamni is created for less unfortunate so even the talentless will be able to wield magic. The way magic was perform in tamni is by creating a change in something which is normal. To create mana one has to harness or refine life energy and this so called life energy is the result in creating a change in your body. Like changing the flow of blood or doing something which change the normal flow of the body. You're risking your life here because one wrong move and your dead. By creating a change one manage to exert life force which can be change into mana to fuel magic. That's for normal means.

And the use of idol theory is just to make a based form of magic thus idol theory. One shapes own mana to the same as the one in the legends. Its a lot easier that way than create a whole new magic even if that is possible but will take decades to bear fruit thus why just use the existing form born from the legends. And thus that is the born of magic. The percent of one can be able to imitate the original is not even near 1 % if you're trying to replicate divine origins but still it will help in shaping your magic. Though this is for self fuel magic.

The other form of magic is borrowing energy from alien to this world which can be also use in idol theory but this one has limits to one can contain in one owns body thus its pretty limited because a body of a normal human being can't contain the energy of those alien being like angels.

The form of magic can be shape infinitely so any form of story from religion, fairytale, folklore or myth... etc etc can be use as a basis for magic. But still heavily dependent on one's own capacity and talent.

The other form of magic is by artifact with great strength. The artifact acts as a medium of magic and the better the artifact the greater the strength can be borrowed and used. Though artifact magic is limited only to what intended for the artifact to be used.
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Old 2012-11-09, 08:50   Link #1019
Javiersansano
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Thanks for the explanation of magic... Given this, I can't help but wonder if Aleister wants to destroy the "magic" system, which is dependant of "superior ideas" (legends), or "superior beings", which is why he created the espers who cand create their miracles by forcing their personal realities into the world, and with the LV. 6 Experiment, they can ascend and become superior beings... I'm saying this because I recently read vol. 19, and can't help remeber Aleister and Aiwass conversation, in whihc Aleisters tells to the later that he (Aiwass) won't remain in the upper position (or something along those lines)

By the way, what are the AEONS?
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Old 2012-11-09, 09:40   Link #1020
Chaos2Frozen
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By the way, what are the AEONS?
To rip directly from wiki;

In the religion of Thelema, it is believed that the history of humanity can be divided into a series of Aeons, each of which was accompanied by its own forms of "magical and religious expression".

The first of these was the Aeon of Isis, which Thelemites believed occurred during prehistory and which saw mankind worshipping a Great Goddess, symbolised by the ancient Egyptian deity Isis.

In Thelemite beliefs, this was followed by the Aeon of Osiris, a period that took place in the classical and mediaeval centuries, when humanity worshipped a singular male god, symbolised by the Egyptian god Osiris, and was therefore dominated by patriarchal values.

And finally the third aeon, the Aeon of Horus, which was controlled by the child god, symbolised by Horus. In this new aeon, Thelemites believe that humanity will enter a time of self-realization and self-actualization.
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