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Old 2012-11-09, 10:41   Link #1021
Javiersansano
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
To rip directly from wiki;

In the religion of Thelema, it is believed that the history of humanity can be divided into a series of Aeons, each of which was accompanied by its own forms of "magical and religious expression".

The first of these was the Aeon of Isis, which Thelemites believed occurred during prehistory and which saw mankind worshipping a Great Goddess, symbolised by the ancient Egyptian deity Isis.

In Thelemite beliefs, this was followed by the Aeon of Osiris, a period that took place in the classical and mediaeval centuries, when humanity worshipped a singular male god, symbolised by the Egyptian god Osiris, and was therefore dominated by patriarchal values.

And finally the third aeon, the Aeon of Horus, which was controlled by the child god, symbolised by Horus. In this new aeon, Thelemites believe that humanity will enter a time of self-realization and self-actualization.
Then, this shift in Aeons means AT LEAST a shift in the deities and icons? And so, these thelemites predicted the creation of esper, aka humanity self-realization and self-actualization?

When did the osiris-horus shift hapenned? and why does Aiwass refer to himself as someone form the horus aeon, and accel as someone form the osisris aeon, when it is clear that Accel is MUCH younger than Aiwass?

thanks by the way

on another note, I'm not talking about Fuze=Kazakir, I'm talking about a blond "little" girl, without glasses, which is close to angel accel in said chart
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Old 2012-11-09, 10:42   Link #1022
Cosmic Eagle
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Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Vol.15 narrative refers to Accelerator's and Kakine's as divine powers.
Memory of 15 is a bit hazy but is this the one where they are referred to as wielding God's power and the essence of God's domain respectively?

If so, I take it to mean that they have special potential in them to ascend to Angel level and beyond in accordance with the Aeon they use, something like Fiamma's Holy Right.
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Old 2012-11-09, 10:44   Link #1023
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javiersansano View Post
Then, this shift in Aeons means AT LEAST a shift in the deities and icons? And so, these thelemites predicted the creation of esper, aka humanity self-realization and self-actualization?

When did the osiris-horus shift hapenned? and why does Aiwass refer to himself as someone form the horus aeon, and accel as someone form the osisris aeon, when it is clear that Accel is MUCH younger than Aiwass?

thanks by the way

on another note, I'm not talking about Fuze=Kazakir, I'm talking about a blond "little" girl, without glasses, which is close to angel accel in said chart
http://r-s.sakura.ne.jp/w/i21.htm

Do you mean her?
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Old 2012-11-09, 10:56   Link #1024
Javiersansano
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Exactly her, the one in the same box as fiamma's ship... what's up with the author and his flying fortresses?

The queen of adriatic, or something like that was okay, but he is going overboard with flying fortresses
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Old 2012-11-09, 12:40   Link #1025
DarkSkiper
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Could it be that the reason that Touma's IB is only in his right hand because it always restraining the "Invisible thing"?

If remember correctly it was said that Touma not only had misfortune himself, but caused others to have misfortune as well and at one point it stopped. Maybe it's because of the Power Curriculum Program where he really did get an ability only it too is being suppressed, causing IB to weaken even more...

If so then IB is one badass power if it already suppresses something so powerful and still can nullify other strong supernatural powers.
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Old 2012-11-09, 13:00   Link #1026
Inept Forum User
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
And the use of idol theory is just to make a based form of magic thus idol theory. One shapes own mana to the same as the one in the legends. Its a lot easier that way than create a whole new magic even if that is possible but will take decades to bear fruit thus why just use the existing form born from the legends. And thus that is the born of magic. The percent of one can be able to imitate the original is not even near 1 % if you're trying to replicate divine origins but still it will help in shaping your magic. Though this is for self fuel magic.

The form of magic can be shape infinitely so any form of story from religion, fairytale, folklore or myth... etc etc can be use as a basis for magic. But still heavily dependent on one's own capacity and talent.
So the key limiting factor is the individual?

Several more things I would like to check:
  • If there are an infinite number of shapes and there weren't any other major limiting factors, then presumably if one had enough capacity and talent, they could utilise modern tales and conceptual bases? (If they could, would the requirement gap be large or small?)
  • If that were the case, would there be anything stopping someone from penning their own Idol (i.e. writing a story, spreading a rumour etc, then using it as a base)? Though by the sound of things, this would probably not save them any effort...

A couple more questions, this time regarding the Majin's power.
  • Have there been any signs that it can activate automatically?
  • If receiving a set number of attacks around the same time, is the number of coin tosses set or does it depend upon the method of dealing with them?

Last edited by Inept Forum User; 2012-11-09 at 18:18. Reason: Majin questions. Penning idol explanation.
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Old 2012-11-09, 13:23   Link #1027
tsunade666
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The limiting factor is indeed individual limitations.

A talentless person even if one works hard can't beat a genius/talented person in a straight fight.

Thus a normal magician that has normal capacity can't beat a saint that is gifted by stronger body and can channel telesma but even if a saint has a talent of being a saint. It still limits their own strength by their own capacity. They can't utilize 100% strength of a saint because they are still human being.

Magic can be form in every possible way thus no limitation but using modern tales and concepts as base would probably be hard because it needs lots of study and experiment and maybe even more dangerous because your doing something totally new.

what do you mean penning their own idol? choosing an idol to mold their own magic with? or use as a basis? if that is the question. There's no stopping it normally but the tamni verse has religions and sets of beliefs in it. If their is stopping someone then its the mind set of the people's beliefs

Majin is a status its not really a power that can be activate on or off. its a status that one can achieve

Quote:
A Magic God.
That term did not refer to a god of demons.[1] It referred to someone who had mastered magic to the extent that they had taken one step into the domain of god.
That was the great monument of magicians that could only be achieved by obtaining the knowledge of all 103,000 grimoires contained in Index’s head and being able to freely use it all.
Quote:
“But a Magic God can do anything, right? Does she really need to rely on others?”
“Being able to do anything is the problem in and of itself.” Ollerus gave a cynical smile as if commiserating with a colleague. “You often hear talk of ‘infinite possibilities’, but that truly means you have as many negative possibilities as you do positive possibilities.”
Magin or Magic God. Its a status that fits a magician that enters the level or domain of the gods. They can freely wield infinite powers or magic that encompases the forbidded books of Index. You don't turn off or on something which is a mastery or status of a being.

I think even if you attack him thousand of times a single toss coin will be only needed is to defeat you or not to defeat you will be the answer. The magic god is someone that is infinite being that goes both negative and positive thus he ended up with 50/50 and also reason why Gremlin wants gungnir is to remove the negative status of a majin.

If you can attack thousand of times then what's stopping the majin to just blow you up in one hit? a majin is someone that can distort the whole values of the world into what they like. Turning the water in the world into a juice is possible for them.
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Old 2012-11-09, 17:24   Link #1028
Chaos2Frozen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javiersansano View Post
Then, this shift in Aeons means AT LEAST a shift in the deities and icons? And so, these thelemites predicted the creation of esper, aka humanity self-realization and self-actualization?

When did the osiris-horus shift hapenned? and why does Aiwass refer to himself as someone form the horus aeon, and accel as someone form the osisris aeon, when it is clear that Accel is MUCH younger than Aiwass?
The Thelemites didn't predict the creation of espers so much as they thought that eventually, mankind wouldn't have need to worship Gods.

When Aiwass said that he was from the Aeon of Horus while Accelerator is of Osiris, he wasn't talking about the era they were born, but rather the stage of their 'maturity'. Accelerator was someone that is obsessed with good and evil, life and most importantly death. And he was shackled by those concepts.


By the way, on the topic of Aeon Shift.... For those of you who have read/seen Campione- Doesn't the description of the shift from Aeon of Isis to Aeon of Osiris sounds vaguely familiar?
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Old 2012-11-09, 17:41   Link #1029
ellifeedn
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One thing I've wondered is why everyone assumes Aleister's religion of Thelema is the correct one.
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Old 2012-11-09, 17:46   Link #1030
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by ellifeedn View Post
One thing I've wondered is why everyone assumes Aleister's religion of Thelema is the correct one.
Because apparently all the high level Magicians are following it's concept to a certain extent. Crowley himself was said to have progressed the study of magic more in the last century than what has come from the millenium before.

Basically, it's the latest 'technology'.
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Old 2012-11-10, 14:08   Link #1031
Cosmic Eagle
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Originally Posted by Javiersansano View Post
Exactly her, the one in the same box as fiamma's ship... what's up with the author and his flying fortresses?

The queen of adriatic, or something like that was okay, but he is going overboard with flying fortresses
That IS Kazakiri Hyouka
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Old 2012-11-11, 23:42   Link #1032
Javiersansano
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
That IS Kazakiri Hyouka
what the f*ck?

dude, how did Kazakiri get blonde?

well, I've only read up to vol. 19, so I shouldn't be surprised by such changes

By the way, why is it that Fiamma fears the invisble thing, Aleister seems to want to use it for something, but Othinus crushed it so easily?

I can't help but hope that after the Invisible thing got pummelled, it will reform itself stronger
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Old 2012-11-12, 00:11   Link #1033
Ilidsor
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By the way, why is it that Fiamma fears the invisble thing, Aleister seems to want to use it for something, but Othinus crushed it so easily?

I can't help but hope that after the Invisible thing got pummelled, it will reform itself stronger
Well if you don't mind being spoiled for NT4...

Spoiler for New Testament 4:
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Old 2012-11-12, 00:22   Link #1034
Javiersansano
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Well if you don't mind being spoiled for NT4...

Spoiler for New Testament 4:
Ok... which means that The invisble thing is bounded by the rules of the world... does this mean that Othinus can do the same to Aiwass?

HOPE NOT
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Old 2012-11-16, 09:07   Link #1035
Cosmic Eagle
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Originally Posted by Javiersansano View Post
what the f*ck?

dude, how did Kazakiri get blonde?

well, I've only read up to vol. 19, so I shouldn't be surprised by such changes

By the way, why is it that Fiamma fears the invisble thing, Aleister seems to want to use it for something, but Othinus crushed it so easily?

I can't help but hope that after the Invisible thing got pummelled, it will reform itself stronger
That is Hyouka's full Angel form.

Because Othinius' nature as a Majin is on that level would be the best explanation so far.
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Old 2012-11-17, 19:50   Link #1036
tsunade666
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Originally Posted by Javiersansano View Post
Ok... which means that The invisble thing is bounded by the rules of the world... does this mean that Othinus can do the same to Aiwass?

HOPE NOT
Aiwass resides in another dimension so he is not bounded on this world. Through Hyouka he can manifest but still his origin is not on this world. Othinus can probably do something against him in this world because the Majin can do anything he wants on the world but still it won't be a complete victory. Just like how Gabriel manifest through force summoning of Fiamma but that is still not the full being of the archangel. More like an avatar of power or representation of Gabriel. Though even if its a small piece it still holds the power of the original as an avatar of it in this world.
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Old 2012-11-19, 06:50   Link #1037
judasmartel
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^The one with Gabriel is the Idol Theory, right?
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Old 2012-11-19, 07:04   Link #1038
Javiersansano
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
Aiwass resides in another dimension so he is not bounded on this world. Through Hyouka he can manifest but still his origin is not on this world. Othinus can probably do something against him in this world because the Majin can do anything he wants on the world but still it won't be a complete victory. Just like how Gabriel manifest through force summoning of Fiamma but that is still not the full being of the archangel. More like an avatar of power or representation of Gabriel. Though even if its a small piece it still holds the power of the original as an avatar of it in this world.
By the way, the Majin is a title, but does it imply that anyone that two Majin would be exaclty the same? Meaning that Ollerus and Index (ja) could also have a 50-50 chance of victory or defeat?

Or Othinus is the Majin, but the 50-50 thing is unique to her?
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Old 2012-11-19, 07:43   Link #1039
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by Javiersansano View Post
By the way, the Majin is a title, but does it imply that anyone that two Majin would be exaclty the same? Meaning that Ollerus and Index (ja) could also have a 50-50 chance of victory or defeat?

Or Othinus is the Majin, but the 50-50 thing is unique to her?
It's a Maijin thing; rather than a title- You have to treat them as a completely different existence than that of human.
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Old 2012-11-19, 08:48   Link #1040
tsunade666
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^The one with Gabriel is the Idol Theory, right?
Your right on this one but idol theory use a medium to channel the mana to form the a fraction of the power you want to control or use.

Gabriel might be the same in a way that its a fraction of the original but it still an archangel and not just a mere copy of it.

Majin is a status

Just like chaoz said. Treat them as transcendental beings. The description of Majin is a magician that reach the level of magic that borders the realms of the gods.
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