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Old 2012-11-09, 18:24   Link #1
arekwibowo
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When a story get dragged on for too long.

I was not created this thread for the purpose of discrediting nor dishonoring the story writers, so please pardon my rudeness first.

Apparently something is bugging me all this time, particularly when i'm reading several manga from who-knows-when they were first published (perhaps long before i was born in this world. I'm still an elementary schooler btw). That is, why i couldn't see any visible ending for those series? Take "Ah! My Goddess" for example. Why for heaven's sake it didn't end when Keiichi and Beldandy relationship had been established already and keep being dragged on for too long? Why it didn't end when it should have? Or let me ask you people here. How many of you that are still reading "Hajime no Ippo" or "Kochikame" up until now? The phrase "Never ending series" for those series suddenly popped out in my head for some reason. If it's the super popular manga like "One Piece" or "Naruto" then it's okay to get dragged until god knows when the authors want it. Still i feel quite uncomfortable as those two series also have no visible ending (Can someone explain to me when and where "the treasure" in One Piece is? Nobody, right?), even "Bleach" manga was forced to make abrupt ending with its quite forced last arc (Why it didn't just end already when Aizen was defeated and Soul Society clearly won?).

It's OK if the issue lies on the hard die fanbase who would do whatever it takes to maintain their favorite series to keep being serialized. But, is it just that? There're so many fresh and new ideas out there, so why still stuck on the old ones? Take Light Novels for example that are very blossoming in recent years in japan. They're very variable with a bunch of new ideas, not just stuck on the old, cliche ones (And they always end when they should have, that is).

Kinda reminds me of an old man's wise phrase : "All good stories must come to and end"

Pardon my bad english since i'm still a child and english isn't my native language.
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Old 2012-11-09, 18:35   Link #2
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the real life answer is Money.

long running series never end as long as fans are willing stuff money into the pocket of the publisher and the author.
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Old 2012-11-09, 18:46   Link #3
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Manga authors often make a living off their manga series, so it's good news for them if their manga is allowed to be extended to obscene lengths even if the story quality declines. They can also make a new manga series to replace the older one, but it's not guaranteed to meet the same level of success.

I make a habit out of mostly reading short manga. You'd be surprised by how many amazing and complete stories you can find in 30-200 pages.
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Old 2012-11-09, 18:47   Link #4
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This thing also quite bugging me. Put "Good ending" and "Kimi no Iru Machi" to the fray, they're two of several manga with hanging story and with no visible ending. I had dropped them since long time ago as the character's indecisiveness and bad decisions making had been so stupid that it's unbearable to read. Regarding "One Piece" and "Naruto", well, i had dropped them since long time ago as well, mainly because of boredom.

Still, why did i get a feeling that this thread seems kinda sensitive and disturbing for the fans out there?
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Old 2012-11-09, 18:56   Link #5
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Some stories and/or fictional characters are victims of their own success.

The publishers/production companies behind these works see easy money in their endless continuation, and hence push for just that.

Hence, these properties continue for lengthy periods of time, arguably long after their "best before" date.


But it could be worse; at least it's not like superhero comics in the US. The stories of Spiderman, Wolverine, Batman, Superman, etc... will never be completely told. They'll never finish (except in short, AU standalone stories perhaps). So they go on, and on, and on, and after awhile, it can seem kinda pointless. One "event" leads to the next leads to the next and there's not necessarily any thematic or character consistency over the passage of in-canon time.


This is a big part of the reason why I transitioned from being a comic book fan to being an anime fan. The "heroes of anime" typically get to see their stories meet with some sort of conclusion. Granted, in some cases, it can take a long time to get there...
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Old 2012-11-09, 19:02   Link #6
arekwibowo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempester View Post
Manga authors often make a living off their manga series, so it's good news for them if their manga is allowed to be extended to obscene lengths even if the story quality declines. They can also make a new manga series to replace the older one, but it's not guaranteed to meet the same level of success.
In my opinion, Be it anime/manga/LN/whatever form of shows, they must always had ideal length, and my main concern here is that those story writers apparently don't know when to stop and keep dragging their works for who knows when.

If we're talking about money, i understand that they also have their own livelihood to fulfill and it's not an easy thing to risk it. It's both hard for the authors and the hardcore fans. Still, can they be more creative instead by ending one series and creating another series to replace it? Take To-Love-Ru for example. This manga ended very abruptly yet got another sequel with (quite) better quality which further proven the creativity from its author.
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Old 2012-11-09, 19:02   Link #7
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Well, people need to eat, so they may have to compromise their creative vision in order to put food on the table. Life sucks like that.

Anyhow, we can look at Dragon Ball Z. Practically every arc in it could have been the last in a number of ways, and by the time we get to Cell, I'm almost certain they were trying to end the series there.

Also, you make your great work and they tell you "Oh, you've been renewed for a second season". But your best ideas already went out. Shit.
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Old 2012-11-09, 19:04   Link #8
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Some stories and/or fictional characters are victims of their own success.

The publishers/production companies behind these works see easy money in their endless continuation, and hence push for just that.

Hence, these properties continue for lengthy periods of time, arguably long after their "best before" date.


But it could be worse; at least it's not like superhero comics in the US. The stories of Spiderman, Wolverine, Batman, Superman, etc... will never be completely told. They'll never finish (except in short, AU standalone stories perhaps). So they go on, and on, and on, and after awhile, it can seem kinda pointless. One "event" leads to the next leads to the next and there's not necessarily any thematic or character consistency over the passage of in-canon time.


This is a big part of the reason why I transitioned from being a comic book fan to being an anime fan. The "heroes of anime" typically get to see their stories meet with some sort of conclusion. Granted, in some cases, it can take a long time to get there...
The difference between anime stories and "American super hero comics" are that those stories are not written by the same person. It's much easier to drag those kind of stories longer because a different writer can have a different take on the same character and sometimes even "retconning" certain decisions made by other writers.
However such stories can end if the the entire editorial decides to change series completely (like killing off certin super heroes or reboots like DCU's infinite crisis or the spiderman stories after "one more day")

Back on topic, it's obviously for the money.
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Old 2012-11-09, 19:06   Link #9
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And we arrive at the greatest question of them all: When the heck will Conan solve his own personal case?
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Old 2012-11-09, 19:07   Link #10
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Naruto is (finally) ending. Kishimoto could have ended it a few years ago (after the Naruto vs Pain fight) and nothing of importance would have been lost. He has been rehashing the same 2 or 3 concepts for years now.
OP is very long, this is true, we passed the half way line a few years ago when the manga was already more than 10 years old. It's slow, but it's clear it's more than a treasure hunt and I feel it's getting slowly to the point.

In the end, don't forget than in Japan, the mangakas are considered more as employees (of the publishing company) than artists and it's not really up to them to decide when to end their work. (although of course, they can't really be forced to continue.)
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Old 2012-11-09, 19:11   Link #11
arekwibowo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
And we arrive at the greatest question of them all: When the heck will Conan solve his own personal case?
The answer is probably a big NO

Even i was wondering why Conan was still in his child form while the manga had been serialized 7 years before i was born

That's why i want to celebrate for those series that dared to end. Because it feels too boring in the world where branding is paramount and the suits will try to force a writer to march a dead story on forever, or at least until they’ve harvested every last bucks they possibly can.
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Old 2012-11-09, 19:13   Link #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arekwibowo View Post
In my opinion, Be it anime/manga/LN/whatever form of shows, they must always had ideal length, and my main concern here is that those story writers apparently don't know when to stop and keep dragging their works for who knows when.
Well, you don't have to get too concerned about these manga when there are tons of good manga that end at 5 volumes or whatever length is most appropriate for them. It's mostly the hyped up manga that run for a really long time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arekwibowo View Post
If we're talking about money, i understand that they also have their own livelihood to fulfill and it's not an easy thing to risk it. It's both hard for the authors and the hardcore fans. Still, can they be more creative instead by ending one series and creating another series to replace it? Take To-Love-Ru for example. This manga ended very abruptly yet got another sequel with (quite) better quality which further proven the creativity from its author.
I haven't read To Love-Ru, but I spoiled myself on the "ending" because I really can't give a damn about that manga. It was basically a non-ending that stuck to the status quo and didn't close off anything, and To Love-Ru Darkness, the sequel, is merely continuing the story as if it never ended to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahan View Post
Naruto is (finally) ending.
That's what I heard two years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arekwibowo View Post
That's why i want to celebrate for those series that dared to end.
Amen to that.
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Old 2012-11-09, 19:14   Link #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
The difference between anime stories and "American super hero comics" are that those stories are not written by the same person.
Have you read what Gen Urobuchi recently said about the future of Madoka Magica?

I'll admit that you're generally correct, though, which is precisely why I've come to prefer anime.

While it can be interesting to see differing interpretations of the same character, I like having a definitive version of a character to come back to.
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Old 2012-11-09, 19:14   Link #14
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i wonder if anyone ever to dare the author of Conan.

How much money does he needs to make before he ends Conan?
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Old 2012-11-09, 19:24   Link #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
And we arrive at the greatest question of them all: When the heck will Conan solve his own personal case?
Personally, I'm still waiting for One Piece to finish. Really like what I've seen and read of it but I'll hold off. The good news is that it's halfway done...
Quote:
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Have you read what Gen Urobuchi recently said about the future of Madoka Magica?
There's something me and a few others are apprehensive about concerning this series. It's about a cow that produces cash instead of milk. Sigh...

As for the topic, it is entirely possible for a show to span hundreds of episodes and make it feel like everything was significant and planned out. what was it called again?
/shameless promoting.
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Old 2012-11-09, 19:28   Link #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
i wonder if anyone ever to dare the author of Conan.

How much money does he needs to make before he ends Conan?
Detective Conan (Case Closed in USA), eh? Basically it's just a plotless story where the author simply adding new cases and new characters in every chapter without giving some sort of conclusions[/QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by arekwibowo View Post
The answer is probably a big NO

Even i was wondering why Conan was still in his child form while the manga had been serialized 7 years before i was born
Let's see . . . how many cases has Conan solved? How many years it take to run through one cases to another seemingly continuous? And yet he's still in his child form? The ridiculousness of this show apparently has gone beyond my wits.
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Old 2012-11-09, 19:30   Link #17
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I guess there must be also some lack of confindence from the authors' part. It basically means that they think that should they end their current series they'd never be able to create something as much popular.

It's not surprising that usually it's extremely popular series that keeps going for so long.
They are also obviously pressured by the editors and the publishers, they definitely don't want their goose to stop laying golden eggs. But they should also understand that the end is inevitable sooner or later, and it's better to end it when the fans still like the work, and not when they are so disappointed, bitter and bored to give up.

An author should think carefully about what to do. If they abandon their popular series, they might end up losing a lot of money and prestige. But if they run out of ideas and the series starts to suck, it will end anyway, with the difference that they'll have an even harder time selling their next product, because at that point they have already lost their fanbase.

So they really should be alert and conscious about themselves. At the first sigh of burn out or decrease in sales, they should think of a proper ending and do it quickly.
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Old 2012-11-09, 19:48   Link #18
arekwibowo
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Personally, I'm still waiting for One Piece to finish. Really like what I've seen and read of it but I'll hold off. The good news is that it's halfway done...
It's been 13 years and it's just halfway done? *facepalm*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
I guess there must be also some lack of confindence from the authors' part. It basically means that they think that should they end their current series they'd never be able to create something as much popular.

It's not surprising that usually it's extremely popular series that keeps going for so long.
They are also obviously pressured by the editors and the publishers, they definitely don't want their goose to stop laying golden eggs. But they should also understand that the end is inevitable sooner or later, and it's better to end it when the fans still like the work, and not when they are so disappointed, bitter and bored to give up.

An author should think carefully about what to do. If they abandon their popular series, they might end up losing a lot of money and prestige. But if they run out of ideas and the series starts to suck, it will end anyway, with the difference that they'll have an even harder time selling their next product, because at that point they have already lost their fanbase.

So they really should be alert and conscious about themselves. At the first sigh of burn out or decrease in sales, they should think of a proper ending and do it quickly.
Simply put, all stories must know when to stop. The bad guys must be defeated, the long-lost father must be found, and the destiny of the characters must be chosen, and then THE END. Dragging it for too long would just make it plain and boring, yet that's what happen in most popular manga nowadays.
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Old 2012-11-09, 19:52   Link #19
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there is no real point in complaining about it. Everyone here already told you the reason.
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Old 2012-11-09, 19:58   Link #20
Flower
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I wonder, too, if there are some people out there who simply enjoy the "never-ending story" style of presentation?
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