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Keroko · 2012-10-21, 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

"Synthetics will always kill Organics"
"There is no time to Explain".

Word of God. There is no point bringing up the plot in the middle of the story, when it is the ending that matters. Synthetics can't be allowed to exist according to Bioware.

The Synthesis is even worse. "Look, we CURED your horrible condition called 'being Synthetic!' Aren't you glad you are not Synthetic any-more? Now we don't have to kill you because we mutated you against your will!"

Oh yay, so some starchild, which is just another character in the series and thus can be wrong making him the worst of Bioware's mouthpieces, says that and it's word of god? Even though, again, rannoch already proves him wrong? And they even give us the control ending to tell the reapers to piss off?

There's rational dislike, and then there's mindless rage, and I think you crossed that line long ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Key Board

Or they could make it take a few hundred years after ME3

by that time, technology would have advanced enough that everyone would have some kind of nano-machine implants in their bloodstream

That still leaves us stuck with the details. Are the reapers playing watchdog/big brother? What's the political climate? Are the geth dead? Are the quarrian dead? Are the last of the krogan out for human blood or sitting on a rebuild empire?

I'm not saying Bioware can't make a sequel, I'm saying that if Bioware chooses to do so, they're going to have to start making choices about which parts of the Mass Effect games are canon. A prequel or a game that takes place in the ME1 and 2 timeframe (which is several years, mind you) is a lot less troublesome, since the events there are a lot easier to deal with or outright ignore.

Key Board · 2012-10-21, 21:28

Well.. if I was the lead writer, then my solutions is to say that enough time has passed that all remaining synthetics eventually become one new synthetic race which is called something else. This way, even if you chose destroy, the Quarians or someone else would make a new synthetic race which eventually will become this new race

it's not a solution that will make everyone happy

Honestly though, even a few hundred years is not enough of a gap.
The butterfly effect of the ending choices are just too powerful to handwave

The logical thing to do from a story telling perspective is to make another sci fi franchise. But I understand they want to re-use their assets.

All of this would not happen if they just stuck to their supposed original goal and end the story with the destruction of the Reapers.
Introducing synthesis and control just complicates further sequels.

..

SoldierOfDarkness · 2012-10-22, 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

Oh yay, so some starchild, which is just another character in the series and thus can be wrong making him the worst of Bioware's mouthpieces, says that and it's word of god? Even though, again, rannoch already proves him wrong? And they even give us the control ending to tell the reapers to piss off?

There's rational dislike, and then there's mindless rage, and I think you crossed that line long ago.

Uh not really.

Your forgetting that the Starchild is very old so logically speaking he has eons upon eons of evidence that points towards it.

Plus, as the Levaithans who are pretty much the apex in organic species noted, whenever their subjects created synthetics, no matter what, the synthetics ended up destroying them. Then you add in Javik and his experiences.

So yes regardless of what we see in Rannoch, Bioware has more or less established that there will always be conflict between organics and synthetics.

It's a shame because Shepard could've used the quarian vs. geth thing to show otherwise but they didn't bother with it at all. To Bioware, it would only be a matter of time before conflict erupted between the two (I mean Tali notes how the Geth were uploading into their suits....doesn't that sound familiar to what happened in Javik's era?)

Quote:

That still leaves us stuck with the details. Are the reapers playing watchdog/big brother? What's the political climate? Are the geth dead? Are the quarrian dead? Are the last of the krogan out for human blood or sitting on a rebuild empire?

I'm not saying Bioware can't make a sequel, I'm saying that if Bioware chooses to do so, they're going to have to start making choices about which parts of the Mass Effect games are canon. A prequel or a game that takes place in the ME1 and 2 timeframe (which is several years, mind you) is a lot less troublesome, since the events there are a lot easier to deal with or outright ignore.

They could easily send the Reapers into dark space just to keep an eye on things from afar and out of the affairs of the galaxy. I mean they could easiliy do that hundreds of years later when Reapers become a myth as they are no longer seen.

Key Board · 2012-10-22, 18:33

There will always be conflict between synthetics and organics, for the same reason there will always be conflict between organics and other organics. Different ideology. Different interests. Expect conflict. So Starchild is right about that part.

The point is whether they can resolve it or not.

And this is where Starchild shows he a crazy and defective.

Starchild believes that the conflict can never be resolved, and organics will always lose.

So his solution was essentially to kill all organics before they are killed by synthetics and archive them in Reaper form.... what?

And during the process, Reapers go out of their way to be as horrific and traumatizing as possible.

It's clear where his bias lies. Remember that he's more advanced than an AI.
And once you get into that level of individuality, you develop prejudices and preconceived notions

RRW · 2012-11-06, 09:29

Kyero Fox · 2012-11-06, 09:32

^ my response to that is at 1:30

Tokkan · 2012-11-07, 02:13

The Turian lady's name is Nyreen and she joins you as a squadmate on the Omega DLC. Probably just as a temp squadmate. Aria is also a squadmate for the duration of the DLC, so no bringing Garrus or Tali (or anyone else) with you on the DLC.

LoweGear · 2012-11-07, 04:46

... they're making an official comic on THE BEST SPECTRE EVER

GN0010 Nosferatu · 2012-11-07, 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRW

10/10

Would definitely bang.

synaesthetic · 2012-11-07, 23:19

The Leviathan DLC basically states outright that the blue god kid (and the Reapers by extension) are functionally insane because they're trying to solve a problem within the scope of their programming, using methods that go against their programming, while attempting to stay within the limits of their programming.

It's a very Asimov-alike twist. Reminds me heavily of I, Robot, and the Cogito-infected AutoReivs from Ergo Proxy.

So no, Bioware does NOT say that synthetics and organics are always doomed to kill each other. The Reapers say that, while doing exactly that. They are an extant embodiment of a paradox. This also makes the Control ending probably the best possible ending, because Shepard (who is clearly not insane) takes the place of the paradoxically-insane Catalyst as the governing intelligence of the Reapers.

Edit: Really like the look of the female Turian. She doesn't even have any trace of what humans would refer to as feminine traits, so Bioware did a good job avoiding anthropomorphizing her. Unless she has boobs. That would be almost as dumb as female Argonians in the Elder Scrolls.

Knight Hawk · 2012-11-08, 00:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

boobs

She would have been perfect without them. Oh well.

Kyero Fox · 2012-11-08, 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight Hawk

She would have been perfect without them. Oh well.

I see bumps, not boobs

and that could easily be the outfit.

I just want some garrus and her dialog and her be the Turian he shows his reach on. XD

Better job they did on her than Tali =\ Fuck you bioware.

killer3000ad · 2012-11-08, 22:40

Someone's gone and made a happy ending mod http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to...dex/14795358/1

FlareKnight · 2012-11-08, 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer3000ad

Someone's gone and made a happy ending mod http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to...dex/14795358/1

Well good on him for putting that together. Of course I'd have to re-install ME3 to check it out, so will just have to be satisfied in principal.

Rising Dragon · 2012-11-09, 00:05

Took longer than I thought it would.

Terrestrial Dream · 2012-11-09, 00:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer3000ad

Someone's gone and made a happy ending mod http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to...dex/14795358/1

Ok this might actually give me the motivation to play Mass Effect again.

Kyral · 2012-11-09, 06:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer3000ad

Someone's gone and made a happy ending mod http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to...dex/14795358/1

Nice... but the only thing I don't like was Hackett's lines being replaced by Joker, Joker's extended rescue scene and Shepard surviving.

Yes, I know I played him for 3 games and he deserves a happy ending... but somehow I totaly like his (seemingly) sacrifice in the end.

Oh, and no EDI in the end.

But yay for no Star Child!

@FlareKnight: Or you just watch the YouTube videos instead.

FlareKnight · 2012-11-09, 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyral

Nice... but the only thing I don't like was Hackett's lines being replaced by Joker, Joker's extended rescue scene and Shepard surviving.

Yes, I know I played him for 3 games and he deserves a happy ending... but somehow I totaly like his (seemingly) sacrifice in the end.

Oh, and no EDI in the end.

But yay for no Star Child!

@FlareKnight: Or you just watch the YouTube videos instead.

Shhh, I said there were two options and that's how it is

.

Snuffle · 2012-11-09, 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer3000ad

Someone's gone and made a happy ending mod http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to...dex/14795358/1

I watched the video version, it was decent but not really something I would install into the game. I actually didn't mind that Shepard dies in the end of the original version, I found it to be a noble sacrifice. Only problem I had was how it was handled, not to mention the involvement of the god child which makes it look a cop out for not being more creative....

synaesthetic · 2012-11-09, 21:24

I agree, that even the Extended Cut ending is mostly fine, just the deus ex machina kid should have simply been replaced with a less jarring representation of the Reapers' collective intelligence. The Leviathan DLC actually makes the EC ending make a lot more sense, since the Reapers themselves are essentially a Logic Bombed AI that's gone completely whacky, so their whole "organics vs. synthetics" thing is a symptom of their insanity.

Leviathan's story plus the EC endings (specifically Control) basically saved ME3 for me. Synthesis is still stupid space magic, and Destroy is still nonsensical, but at least Control is a satisfying ending with the Leviathan plot points added, since the Reapers are repurposed, Shepard's mind replacing the insane Catalyst and having them serve a better purpose (either one of collective understanding of life as a Paragon Shepard, or one of ruthless defense of life as a Renegade Shepard).

2012-10-21, 21:28	Link #3582
Key Board Donut Join Date: Nov 2003	Well.. if I was the lead writer, then my solutions is to say that enough time has passed that all remaining synthetics eventually become one new synthetic race which is called something else. This way, even if you chose destroy, the Quarians or someone else would make a new synthetic race which eventually will become this new race it's not a solution that will make everyone happy Honestly though, even a few hundred years is not enough of a gap. The butterfly effect of the ending choices are just too powerful to handwave The logical thing to do from a story telling perspective is to make another sci fi franchise. But I understand they want to re-use their assets. All of this would not happen if they just stuck to their supposed original goal and end the story with the destruction of the Reapers. Introducing synthesis and control just complicates further sequels. .. __________________ "Don’t try to be original just try to be good." - Paul Rand

2012-10-22, 18:33	Link #3584
Key Board Donut Join Date: Nov 2003	There will always be conflict between synthetics and organics, for the same reason there will always be conflict between organics and other organics. Different ideology. Different interests. Expect conflict. So Starchild is right about that part. The point is whether they can resolve it or not. And this is where Starchild shows he a crazy and defective. Starchild believes that the conflict can never be resolved, and organics will always lose. So his solution was essentially to kill all organics before they are killed by synthetics and archive them in Reaper form.... what? And during the process, Reapers go out of their way to be as horrific and traumatizing as possible. It's clear where his bias lies. Remember that he's more advanced than an AI. And once you get into that level of individuality, you develop prejudices and preconceived notions __________________ "Don’t try to be original just try to be good." - Paul Rand

2012-11-06, 09:32	Link #3586
Kyero Fox Tastes Cloudy Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Snake Way Age: 24	^ my response to that is at 1:30 __________________

2012-11-07, 02:13	Link #3587
Tokkan Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Australia Age: 24	The Turian lady's name is Nyreen and she joins you as a squadmate on the Omega DLC. Probably just as a temp squadmate. Aria is also a squadmate for the duration of the DLC, so no bringing Garrus or Tali (or anyone else) with you on the DLC. __________________

2012-11-07, 04:46	Link #3588
LoweGear Device Meister Graphic Designer Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Everywhere and nowhere at once	... they're making an official comic on THE BEST SPECTRE EVER __________________ On Righteousness: "You don't just have the moral high ground, you have moral orbital supremacy being overseen from your headquarters on the armour plated moon. Your moral space fleet patrols the entire fucking solar system."

2012-11-06, 09:29	Link #3585
RRW ~「shutdown」~ Join Date: May 2010 Location: N/A

2012-11-07, 23:19	Link #3590
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 29	The Leviathan DLC basically states outright that the blue god kid (and the Reapers by extension) are functionally insane because they're trying to solve a problem within the scope of their programming, using methods that go against their programming, while attempting to stay within the limits of their programming. It's a very Asimov-alike twist. Reminds me heavily of I, Robot, and the Cogito-infected AutoReivs from Ergo Proxy. So no, Bioware does NOT say that synthetics and organics are always doomed to kill each other. The Reapers say that, while doing exactly that. They are an extant embodiment of a paradox. This also makes the Control ending probably the best possible ending, because Shepard (who is clearly not insane) takes the place of the paradoxically-insane Catalyst as the governing intelligence of the Reapers. Edit: Really like the look of the female Turian. She doesn't even have any trace of what humans would refer to as feminine traits, so Bioware did a good job avoiding anthropomorphizing her. Unless she has boobs. That would be almost as dumb as female Argonians in the Elder Scrolls. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2012-11-08, 22:40	Link #3593
killer3000ad Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Australia Age: 30	Someone's gone and made a happy ending mod http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to...dex/14795358/1 __________________

2012-11-09, 00:05	Link #3595
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The middle of the Middle of Nowhere Age: 25	Took longer than I thought it would. __________________

2012-11-09, 21:24	Link #3600
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 29	I agree, that even the Extended Cut ending is mostly fine, just the deus ex machina kid should have simply been replaced with a less jarring representation of the Reapers' collective intelligence. The Leviathan DLC actually makes the EC ending make a lot more sense, since the Reapers themselves are essentially a Logic Bombed AI that's gone completely whacky, so their whole "organics vs. synthetics" thing is a symptom of their insanity. Leviathan's story plus the EC endings (specifically Control) basically saved ME3 for me. Synthesis is still stupid space magic, and Destroy is still nonsensical, but at least Control is a satisfying ending with the Leviathan plot points added, since the Reapers are repurposed, Shepard's mind replacing the insane Catalyst and having them serve a better purpose (either one of collective understanding of life as a Paragon Shepard, or one of ruthless defense of life as a Renegade Shepard). __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!