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Old 2012-11-09, 23:03   Link #3041
Reckoner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
That sounds nice, and your criticism of Romney has always been fair and constructive, but... well, I think you're giving this crowd way too much credit if you can read over a thread where bashing of Romney outnumbers bashing of Obama by a ratio of 1000:1. I don't know what thread you're reading that's full of mature, levelheaded people fairly distributing blame where it's deserved and credit where it's likewise deserved rather than just a nesting ground for hateful little vultures to gleefully rip to shreds the subject of their dislike, but I'm sure not reading the same one.
If you really think some of the criticisms here are unwarranted, debunk them. There's no use complaining about people being unfair if you're unwilling to even show that they are even wrong (If they really are). They aren't obligated to point out Romney's good points either. Personally there is almost nothing I agree about that matters with Romney and I am sure there are many others like that here as well.

Considering how far people go here ot evne provide evidence and links for source here, they actually do a pretty good job at fairly assessing Romney.
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Old 2012-11-09, 23:08   Link #3042
Xagzan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
The vast majority here are Obama supporters, I am not denying that (it would be foolish to do so). But, the vast majority here are not using whatever slur is used against Romney in uncivilized discussions (what are the slurs anyway? Obama had Kenyan, Socialist, Marxist, and a few others, but what does Romney have, rich man? ). They doubt his character and his sincerity, sure, but that is not the same as "hateful little vultures".
I wonder actually if it's not so much they're Obama supporters, as they are GOP detractors. That's it is for me, at least. I like some of the stuff Obama's done. And I have severe problems with some of the others. But the GOP as it is today, they're so outrageously offensive that legitimate problems I have with Obama and the dems tend to unfortunately and unintentionally be somewhat muted. I mean sadly the GOP has lowered the bar so much that I'm reduced to saying "Yeah, I have some issues with these guys, but for god's sake, at least I don't have to fear that they'll start saying gravity is an evil illusion caused by gay atheist Muslims praying to Beelzebub!"

Quote:
(what are the slurs anyway? Obama had Kenyan, Socialist, Marxist, and a few others, but what does Romney have, rich man? ).
Is "Mittens" a slur?
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Old 2012-11-09, 23:14   Link #3043
Lost Cause
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
Layoff bomb detonates; Large corporations join small businesses in announcing mass cuts
http://twitchy.com/2012/11/08/layoff...ing-mass-cuts/

Hispanic group demands national amnesty for 11 million illegals

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/11/09/hi...#ixzz2BjwUXKJg

Dominance of GOP Governors Continues
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/20...ors-continues/

Here's a little something we ALL should consider in my opinion:



A few pages back there was discussion about the future of the GOP. I believe that Thomas Sowell puts forward an excellent essay on this subject.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Well. In general when we talk politics, it goes beyond the figurehead they send to run for president. The leader's going to represent the party's standpoint whether or not he is a good person or not. It's how it goes.

We're talking about a party that's launched us into 2 separate wars and has begun curtailing civil and privacy rights. Ie. The Patriot Act. We're talking about a party that's started another costly and ineffective drug war that leads to us being one of the largest prison populations in the world. And for what? Millions down the drain? A government that prioritizes throwing people in prisons instead of educating them. "Oh, let's not bother educating them. They're a lost cause so throw them in jail where they should be in the first place"

Doesn't that entail massive spending? What happened to getting government out of our lives? Spend less, less complexity. An overly complex bureaucracy IS oppressive in itself because the red tape detaches people from the government, and depriving those who would want to take action. So yes, I say "fuck you" to those liberals who want to outlaw large containers of soda too. Get the fuck out my life. I don't care about your misbegotten notions of equality or making the world a better place. I will recycle, because I feel like it. Not because you waste our time on money creating more laws to make people's lives worse. And what if a child picks up a violent video game? Let's leave it up to the parents to raise their own fucking children?

Does anyone provide this? Which one of the big guns is conservative? I don't see any. Well maybe Ron Paul, but he has his own set of problems.

So the main thing comes to this: What do the Republicans and Romney provide to the country? Besides the fact they're not Obama?

In the end, not all Republicans are bad. Just the ones that they're putting in the front. Pull them away, for fuck's sake.
These are probably the two most intelligent posts I've read in the last few days!

And it's nice to point the finger at conspiracy theorists, right wing nut jobs, and upset voters. Thing is people are getting laid off and hopefully if they knew it was coming have saved up for the holidays and other unforeseen things. And there is the fiscal cliff thing as well.
Romney lost, fine better luck next time. Obama won, fine now quit gloating and get too work!
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Old 2012-11-09, 23:22   Link #3044
ganbaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Cause View Post
Romney lost, fine better luck next time. Obama won, fine now quit gloating and get too work!
I doubt than anyone could find something to say against this
Unless he is trying too hard
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Old 2012-11-09, 23:24   Link #3045
Kaioshin Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
Paul Krugman is an optimistic man. A very smart, very civic-minded man, and very bitter at times for the past few years, exhausted from fighting the good fight, but fundamentally optimistic.

I wouldn't put a bet on President Obama not compromising until we're all "off the fiscal cliff," then I'll believe him.


Reality is significantly slanted in one direction.

Don't give me that two-sides-are-the-same BS now.

No really, remember the BBC poll on the rest of the world? Those people, they're far enough from the mess that they see exactly what's going on and scratch their heads and ask what the hell is up with the Americans and oh my god don't screw it up please we don't want another Bush.

Notably, many posters in this thread who object the strongest to Romney and the Republican Party belong in the rest-of-the-world demographic. Mentar, Vallen, etc.

On the other hand, you keep posting deleted inflammatory one-liners, if I didn't think you were genuinely frustrated I would have called you out as just a troll, like flying.
Don't forget me representing from Canada. I was a little worried about what was going to happen here, but it seems everything turned out pretty much in the best way I could have hope for as an outside observer, especially with the rebuke to some of the more despicable Republican candidates.

Also I think this picture is relevant to the current course of the discussion:

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Old 2012-11-09, 23:42   Link #3046
Lost Cause
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
I doubt than anyone could find something to say against this
Unless he is trying too hard
Heh, give it time, I'm sure somebody will try!
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Old 2012-11-09, 23:53   Link #3047
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2103642.html

Quote:
In an order Friday, the justices agreed to hear a constitutional challenge to the part of the landmark Voting Rights Act that requires all or parts of 16 states with a history of discrimination in voting to get federal approval before making any changes in the way they hold elections.
Seems the GOP figured out their new strategy for winning the 2014 elections.
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Old 2012-11-10, 00:49   Link #3048
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2103642.html



Seems the GOP figured out their new strategy for winning the 2014 elections.
Aye, they're not going to flush ideas the majority think "suck" so they're heading further down the vote suppression/marginalization route.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wisconsin Senator immediately inserts foot in mouth in regard to fellow Senator-Elect
Quote:
WASHINGTON -- Rep. Tammy Baldwin (D), Wisconsin's new senator-elect, is confident that she will be able to understand the federal budget without the assistance of Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.).
In an Associated Press interview on Wednesday, Johnson said he hoped he would be able to work with Baldwin in the Senate -- as soon as he explained the "facts" of the budget to her.
"Hopefully I can sit down and lay out for her my best understanding of the federal budget because they're simply the facts," he said. "Hopefully she'll agree with what the facts are and work toward common sense solutions."

"I was a double major in college in mathematics and political science, and I served for six years on the House Budget Committee in my first six years in the House," Baldwin responded in an interview with The Huffington Post on Friday.
"And I am very confident that when proposals come before the U.S. Senate, I will be able to evaluate them as to how they benefit or harm middle-class Wisconsinites. A yardstick of 'does it create jobs,' 'does it lower the deficit' and 'does it help grow the middle class' is an important one. I'm quite confident that I have those abilities," she added.
Baldwin has served in Congress since 1999; Johnson took office in 2011.
The congresswoman said she and Johnson have spoken since the election. "And I am confident that there will be issues in Wisconsin that we can work on, because there have been already in our two years overlapping," she said.
As the Wisconsin State Journal has noted, Johnson and Baldwin "represent near opposite ends of the political spectrum," with Johnson winning his Senate seat as part of the 2010 electoral surge of Tea Party-favored conservatives.
Baldwin will be the first woman senator from the state of Wisconsin and the first openly gay person in the U.S. Senate. She defeated the state's former Republican governor, Tommy Thompson, by approximately 6 percentage points on Tuesday.
Reviewing Johnson's comments and record - I'm betting they're on opposite ends of the intellectual spectrum as well.

Last edited by Vexx; 2012-11-10 at 01:33.
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Old 2012-11-10, 04:20   Link #3049
Mr. DJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
I am pretty sure even Fox News has turned on Romney now. So he really ran out of friends. That's just what happens.
I think Romney was done once top Neo-Con, Bill Kristol turned on him for his 47% remarks.
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Old 2012-11-10, 04:22   Link #3050
Destined_Fate
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2103642.html



Seems the GOP figured out their new strategy for winning the 2014 elections.
Considering that Caucasians are now turning into a minority and the old wont be here forever you would think that they would love keeping the Voting Rights Act.
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Old 2012-11-10, 05:38   Link #3051
DonQuigleone
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@Criticizing Romney: What's wrong with a bit of Schadenfreude? He is the loser of the hour...

Everyone likes a loser, in fact, this might make Romney more electable now... He has experienced (perhaps for the first time) the sting of utter and complete failure.
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Old 2012-11-10, 06:09   Link #3052
monir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Well. In general when we talk politics, it goes beyond the figurehead they send to run for president. The leader's going to represent the party's standpoint whether or not he is a good person or not. It's how it goes.

We're talking about a party that's launched us into 2 separate wars and has begun curtailing civil and privacy rights. Ie. The Patriot Act. We're talking about a party that's started another costly and ineffective drug war that leads to us being one of the largest prison populations in the world. And for what? Millions down the drain? A government that prioritizes throwing people in prisons instead of educating them. "Oh, let's not bother educating them. They're a lost cause so throw them in jail where they should be in the first place"

Doesn't that entail massive spending? What happened to getting government out of our lives? Spend less, less complexity. An overly complex bureaucracy IS oppressive in itself because the red tape detaches people from the government, and depriving those who would want to take action. So yes, I say "fuck you" to those liberals who want to outlaw large containers of soda too. Get the fuck out my life. I don't care about your misbegotten notions of equality or making the world a better place. I will recycle, because I feel like it. Not because you waste our time on money creating more laws to make people's lives worse. And what if a child picks up a violent video game? Let's leave it up to the parents to raise their own fucking children?

Does anyone provide this? Which one of the big guns is conservative? I don't see any. Well maybe Ron Paul, but he has his own set of problems.

So the main thing comes to this: What do the Republicans and Romney provide to the country? Besides the fact they're not Obama?

In the end, not all Republicans are bad. Just the ones that they're putting in the front. Pull them away, for fuck's sake.
My grandfather voted for Eisenhower and was a proud Republican. My dad voted for Reagan, mostly out of frustration toward Carter. And I'm a registered Republican who has yet to vote for a Republican presidential candidate. This party is so out of touch with reality that it's not even funny. If this thread is getting on few people's nerve like Mr. Casey's, then so be it. This party needed a jolt, and as I pointed out earlier in the thread, a win in Florida for Obama would go on to show how much my dad's and grandfather's party has slipped away. Guess what.... all the indication is Obama has won Florida (I don't know if it has been officially declared yet.) If the GOP continues in this path of where they promote stupidity and ignorance and encourages views that are outdated and out of touch, then it will allow the Democrats to grip on to absolute (senate, presidency, house) power for a long haul. This party needs more smart voices and should cut ties with idiots like Limbaugh, and Rover. So yes, I wholeheartedly agree with you that some of these fuckers need to be discarded as the face of GOP before this party can get on track.
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Old 2012-11-10, 07:48   Link #3053
ganbaru
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Analysis: Obama vs. the Super PACs - How the incumbent prevailed
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8A62HP20121107

Edit: Why Romney Never Saw It Coming: He was the numbers guy. But in the end his numbers were all wrong.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...mbers_bad.html
Quote:
It’s not that the Romney camp failed to meet its targets. They say they actually met their voter outreach goals in Ohio. During the summer, they targeted more than 2 million voters who had not voted in party primaries. Those were the independents they believed would be the key to the race. Since the strategy seemed to be paying off with internal and external polls showing Romney leading among independents, the Romney team felt like they were working their plan. “We did everything we set out to do,” says a top strategist about the Ohio effort. “We just didn’t expect the African-American vote to be so high.” African-American participation in Ohio jumped from 11 percent of the electorate to 15 percent between the 2008 and 2012 elections. "We could never see that coming. We thought they'd gotten a lot last time." But that wasn’t the only problem. Romney underperformed George Bush’s results from 2004 in the vast majority of Ohio’s counties, not just the ones with big African-American populations.
... In the final 10 days of the race, a split started to emerge in the two campaigns. The Obama team would shower you with a flurry of data—specific, measurable, and they’d show you the way they did the math. Any request for written proof was immediately filled. They knew their brief so well you could imagine Romney hiring them to work at Bain. The Romney team, by contrast, was much more gauzy, reluctant to share numbers, and relying on talking points rather than data. This could have been a difference in approach, but it suggested a lack of rigor in the Romney camp. On Election Day, the whole Romney ground-game flopped apart. ORCA, the much touted- computer system for tracking voters on Election Day, collapsed. It was supposed to be a high-tech approach to poll-watching, a system by which campaign workers would be able to track who voted. Those who had not yet voted could therefore be identified and then have volunteers tasked to finding them and getting them to the polls. ORCA was supposed to streamline the process, but it was never stress-tested. Field operatives never saw a beta version. They asked to see it, but were told it would be ready on Election Day. When they rolled it out Tuesday, it was a mess. People couldn’t log on and when they did, the fields that were supposed to be full of data were empty. “I saw a zero and I knew I wasn’t supposed to be seeing a zero,” said one campaign worker. A war room had been set up in the Boston Garden to monitor ORCA’s results, but in the end Romney and Ryan had to watch CNN to find out how their campaign was doing. In the end, the numbers guy was deprived of his numbers in more ways than one.
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Last edited by ganbaru; 2012-11-10 at 12:07.
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Old 2012-11-10, 12:00   Link #3054
GundamFan0083
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Wyoming Voters Nullify Health Mandates
http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com...alth-mandates/
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Old 2012-11-10, 12:27   Link #3055
Kokukirin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
Wyoming Voters Nullify Health Mandates
http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com...alth-mandates/
So how exactly does it affect the health care in that state? It'd be nice to have an article that does a little more than cheering.
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Old 2012-11-10, 12:28   Link #3056
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
Wyoming Voters Nullify Health Mandates
http://blog.tenthamendmentcenter.com...alth-mandates/
It's seldom you can see such an effort to create the very definition of a moot point. This was a nice symbolic gesture, but it is ultimately meaningless.

(Personally, the stupidest of the recent health care ballots was found in Missouri, where the constituents prevented the state's governor from having the power to set up the health care system (they were comfortable enough to re-elect a democrat, but not comfortable enough to give him the power every other governor now has?), effectively forcing the federal government to step in and do the task for the state. The Show Me State literally screwed themselves over for no apparent reason.)
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Old 2012-11-10, 12:47   Link #3057
GundamFan0083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
It's seldom you can see such an effort to create the very definition of a moot point. This was a nice symbolic gesture, but it is ultimately meaningless.
I believe that's the point James.
People are starting these initiatives to voice their displeasure with the mandate.
Many don't have a problem with Health Care reform at all, it is the mandate that is the issue AFAIK.
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Old 2012-11-10, 12:58   Link #3058
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
I believe that's the point James.
People are starting these initiatives to voice their displeasure with the mandate.
Many don't have a problem with Health Care reform at all, it is the mandate that is the issue AFAIK.
Nothing in the link you provided indicated any of this (in fact, they seemed to think the passing of the amendment mattered), and it is not like you made any comment when you posted the link, so your opinion on the matter was unknown. As for how people really feel about the affordable care act...well, since there are still some people who believe the entire bill was never even read by Congress (or only read after the fact (and yes, I know there was a section or two that needed to be revised after the fact)), I find it hard to believe many (who voted for this particular type of amendment) actually understand what is in the bill or what it can and cannot do.

But yes, symbolism is nice...
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Old 2012-11-10, 13:04   Link #3059
GundamFan0083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
Nothing in the link you provided indicated any of this (in fact, they seemed to think the passing of the amendment mattered), and it is not like you made any comment when you posted the link, so your opinion on the matter was unknown. As for how people really feel about the affordable care act...well, since there are still some people who believe the entire bill was never even read by Congress (or only read after the fact (and yes, I know there was a section or two that needed to be revised after the fact)), I find it hard to believe many (who voted for this particular type of amendment) actually understand what is in the bill or what it can and cannot do.

But yes, symbolism is nice...
I thought the article was pretty obvious considering it has the contents of Amendment A to the Wyoming constitution quoted there. Many Americans do not like the Feds poking around into their private lives and this is a symbolic way of showing them their displeasure.

Additionally, I think that many people just feel the Federal government has gone too far in its legislation/control of people's lives.
There is even an initiative for Lousiana to secede from the Union (not that this is new, these things happen a lot after elections these days).

My point here is that the polarization of the country isn't lessening, it's expanding and getting worse.
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Old 2012-11-10, 13:20   Link #3060
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
I thought the article was pretty obvious considering it has the contents of Amendment A to the Wyoming constitution quoted there.
It was obvious in that it seemed to believe that the amendment was something beyond simply symbolic.

From the article:
Quote:
The bottom line? You Supreme Court’s opinion on Obamacare is just that – opinion.

In the end, it’ll take some strength from the state government to support the will of the People in Wyoming. But, as far as first steps go, the win on Amendment A is a big one.
There are other lines as well (especially with the in-link articles)...

Nothing there indicates the belief that this is a symbolic endeavor, and after looking up the proponents for the ballot and their rhetoric, nothing indicates that the officials ever explained to the electorate that the initiative was symbolic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
Many Americans do not like the Feds poking around into their private lives and this is a symbolic way of showing them their displeasure.
I don't doubt that (edit: in fact I dislike the same mandate), but I seriously do not believe the people voting for this bill believed it was a symbolic gesture. After only peripheral research I found a score of sites dedicated to explaining just how the bill can be used to stop federal law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
My point here is that the polarization of the country isn't lessening, it's expanding and getting worse.
If Florida or a more populace state had passed the law, then I might agree with you. As it is, this is a nearly entirely Republican state passing a law triumphed by it's Republican legislature that used purposely misleading language to convince an electorate that the law actually mattered.

It would have been just as easy, and even more damning, if the state of Wyoming merely came together to vote on an official resolution to be sent to D.C. indicating that they dislike the mandate. Instead they created an actual law that will be immediately overturned, confusing the electorate and making them even more distrustful of their government(s).

It is pure politics, the kind you've been railing against in this thread since its inception.

Last edited by james0246; 2012-11-10 at 13:31.
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