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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 19
10 out of 10 : Nearly Perfect... 30 28.30%
9 out of 10 : Excellent... 37 34.91%
8 out of 10 : Very Good... 21 19.81%
7 out of 10 : Good... 8 7.55%
6 out of 10 : Average... 6 5.66%
5 out of 10 : Below Average... 1 0.94%
4 out of 10 : Poor... 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad... 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad... 1 0.94%
1 out of 10 : Torturous... 2 1.89%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-11-10, 17:45   Link #41
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lantern View Post
As for why he's able to one shot everybody, note that he is able to do that even without the transformation. He just needs to land a hit, but those player's formation manage to block him out. The bluff helped him screw up their formation for him to land a solid blow, thus allowing him to annihilate their squad at ease.
The problem is that the transformation allowed him to do things that only the demon form can do.
Nevermind the actual damage he can unleash regardless his form, it is the fact he could slash, grab, lift and even bite the salamanders players that is the issue in this part of the episode.

Really, an illusion is basically showing something that doesn't exist, and as such shouldn't have any interactions with "real" objects, even moreso in a video game.
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Old 2012-11-10, 17:45   Link #42
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That's just his perception. The point is that it's not changing his stats.

Illusion magic in games often changes your attack animation. Reach is the only possible advantage he might have gotten.
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Old 2012-11-10, 17:51   Link #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lantern View Post
Yeah, that's the way it is.

Think of it this way.

Kirito's usual form doesn't look at all frightening even though his inherent stats are monstrous.

That illusion spell then creates an appearance that match those stats.

And since Kirito's have insane over all stats, the spell turns him into a boss monster that looks just as frightening as his stats suggest.

Basically, it's a spell for bluffing.

As for why he's able to one shot everybody, note that he is able to do that even without the transformation. He just needs to land a hit, but those player's formation manage to block him out. The bluff helped him screw up their formation for him to land a solid blow, thus allowing him to annihilate their squad at ease.
also notice he took out nearly 50% of all three tank class players while blocking. An attack based on speed and str stats managed to literally behave as a boss lvl attack sweep against the shield wall. THAT should have grabbed everyone's attention and its obv what would happen if he can get a clean hit. Those salamanders have pretty high lvl armor too and despite that Kirito only depends on his stats (his gear is shtty lvl greys you buy from starting vendors) to beat them down

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuafaramir View Post
I think the illusion spell changes them into an actual monster. So the name "illusion spell" is very misleading. I mean remember what Kirito said?

He said "I was suddenly big and since I didn't have swords, I just grabbed them with my hands."
that is correct, it's a high lvl illusion spell which changes your appearance to that of a monster, your new stats are based on your originals stats. Since most players don't have very high stats, they get lame monsters, Kirito, however, has almost maxed out stats (1000), so the form accommodates his stats
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Old 2012-11-10, 18:02   Link #44
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Remember Kirito will most likely get an ability unique to only him, so it's not unlikely his illusions can do more than anyone elses illusions
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Old 2012-11-10, 18:06   Link #45
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Why the hell would he get an ability unique to him? Not to mention that he explicitly didn't, since Leafa clearly recognized the spell.
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Old 2012-11-10, 18:07   Link #46
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
Why the hell would he get an ability unique to him? Not to mention that he explicitly didn't, since Leafa clearly recognized the spell.
Because he had one in SAO
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Old 2012-11-10, 18:09   Link #47
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Originally Posted by Jerseykid View Post
Because he had one in SAO
Except it isn't SAO, and that Kayaba explicitely created the unique skills so they serve as heroes against him as the last boss.
If the unique abilities were still there, ALO Kirito would still have Dual Wielding, which does not exist in ALO, which means RECT did remove them.
As result, there is no reason to think the Spriggan illusion spell is one of these.
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Old 2012-11-10, 18:09   Link #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuafaramir View Post
I think the illusion spell changes them into an actual monster. So the name "illusion spell" is very misleading.
I can agree on that part. It feels more like a morphing spell than 'illusion'.
Though I think the term 'illusion' is used more as the categorizing of the spell than referencing the actual mechanic.
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Old 2012-11-10, 18:15   Link #49
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Except it isn't SAO, and that Kayaba explicitely created the unique skills so they serve as heroes against him as the last boss.
If the unique abilities were still there, ALO Kirito would still have Dual Wielding, which does not exist in ALO, which means RECT did remove them.
As result, there is no reason to think the Spriggan illusion spell is one of these.
I don't think the spriggan illusion spell is a unique ability, clearly many players have that magic. In this case it would be how it's different for Kirito that could be the unique ability. With no dual wielding in the game it's not out of the realm of possibility that the ability has been replaced with something else. It took time for the ability to show up in SAO as well. Simply saying "except it isn't SAO" is no defense with just how linked the games are in the anime as a whole.

Also you're giving Kayaba too much credit as there are clearly things going on in his game that he isn't even aware of
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Old 2012-11-10, 18:21   Link #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseykid View Post
I don't think the spriggan illusion spell is a unique ability, clearly many players have that magic. With no dual wielding in the game it's not out of the realm of possibility that the ability has been replaced with something else. It took time for the ability to show up in SAO as well. Simply saying "except it isn't SAO" is no defense with just how linked the games are in the anime as a whole.

Also you're giving Kayaba too much credit as there are clearly things going on in his game that he isn't even aware of
When he first checked his skill list, the ones used in ALO were listed, [Fishing] [One-handed Sword] etc, but there was one skill that had [???]. which is hinted to be his unique skill. It wasn't replaced as it's still in his skill slot, but he most likely deleted it along with his SAO items before the systems detects them.
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Old 2012-11-10, 18:24   Link #51
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Indeed. The technique Kirito used falls much more into a "transformation" or "morphing" category. If it was just an illusion, it would only affect the perception what the foes see. A true illusion spell in a technical sense wouldn't have had the extra reach or loss of swords, the monster would just be this giant phantom that can't do anything other than intimidate it's foes.

The fake wall Lyfa created earlier on was a much better example of an illusion. It looked like something was there, but it was completely intangible because they could walk through it with no effort.

It's also unlikely this is a unique skill again. Like Clarste said, Lyfa has knowledge of other players using the exact same spell.
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Old 2012-11-10, 18:24   Link #52
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I don't think he deleted his unique skill if he has one, that is not conducive to an exciting, evolving plot.

I would think it's still there as ??? waiting to be unleashed at a dramatic, intense, life on the line, others need to be saved moment!
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Old 2012-11-10, 18:30   Link #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerseykid View Post
I don't think the spriggan illusion spell is a unique ability, clearly many players have that magic. In this case it would be how it's different for Kirito that could be the unique ability. With no dual wielding in the game it's not out of the realm of possibility that the ability has been replaced with something else. It took time for the ability to show up in SAO as well. Simply saying "except it isn't SAO" is no defense with just how linked the games are in the anime as a whole.
I was implying that ALO Kirito's spriggan illusion wasn't unique, and not only Suguha wasn't exactly shocked by the spell itself, save the said monster showing up, but there was no mention of that at all.
And you are giving way too much credits to the link, simply because the frame of ALO is based on SAO, considering how obviously different the games are, in regards to gameplay, stats, damage formula etc.
Quote:
Also you're giving Kayaba too much credit as there are clearly things going on in his game that he isn't even aware of
Except Unique Skills are -not- spontaneous. Dual wielding was destined for the player with the fastest reaction, which would be the leader of the front line in his scenario. That explicitely demonstrates that part was planned by him.
Also, "Heathcliff" had a unique skill, which no matter how you look at it, wasn't a coincidence.
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Old 2012-11-10, 18:52   Link #54
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It's becoming obvious from this arc that Kirito seems to have moments of PTSD where he forgets that the game is now a game, and death doesn't mean death..

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Originally Posted by SilverSyko View Post
Hoo-whee, that was a pretty damn entertaining episode. Very nice to see after the past few being overly boring.

Kirito was incredibly badass here. Going up against a party of about 20 or so people with only Lyfa solely performing healing support. His monster form was awesome too, but isn't it supposed to be an illusion? How could he fight in that form then? Ah well, I'm not too concerned about that because it was awesome. Anything awesome I'm willing to forgive no matter how little sense it makes.

And hey, a sub-plot which actually has me more interested than the main one. Guess rescuing Asuna's going to have to wait, and I'm not against that.~

And Kirito brings up that logic of his again. I suppose I agree with it to a point I guess. I mean you wouldn't exactly want to kill someone who is your friend in a game unless it was a friendly duel or something. It's still just a game though, especially in ALO's case.

First time the ALO arc has actually kept me invested. Not sure how long it'll last but I guess I'll see.~
not really logic, more of his moral values and stance, and they've been solidified since the SAO arc because he has quite literally seen people lose their lives. He has PTSD I'm pretty convinced of it.
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Old 2012-11-10, 19:00   Link #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
I was implying that ALO Kirito's spriggan illusion wasn't unique, and not only Suguha wasn't exactly shocked by the spell itself, save the said monster showing up, but there was no mention of that at all.
And you are giving way too much credits to the link, simply because the frame of ALO is based on SAO, considering how obviously different the games are, in regards to gameplay, stats, damage formula etc.
I think the illusion spell actually does turn the player into a monster. However, the actual type of monster it turns the player into depends on the player's stat. Since Kirito's stat is OP and way above any other player, the monster he turned into is a much stronger one then any other spriggin player. Even the best spriggin player in ALO prob cannot turn into a strong enough monster to make a impression on other people where as Kirito's stat makes him turn into Glimeye.
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Old 2012-11-10, 19:08   Link #56
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Originally Posted by Jerseykid View Post
I don't think he deleted his unique skill if he has one, that is not conducive to an exciting, evolving plot.

I would think it's still there as ??? waiting to be unleashed at a dramatic, intense, life on the line, others need to be saved moment!
One question: For what would he need the Dual Wielding Skill?

Exactly, he doesn't need it at all.

Remember...what purpose did the Dual Wielding have in SAO? It didn't put your offhand as a weaponequip-able hand but it instead made sword arts with both weapons possible. The concept of dual wielding itself could anyone use, there just were no sword skills for both weapons at the same time (sth like Starbust Stream)

BUT: In ALO sword skills don't exist to begin with so his entire unique skill would be useless in there.
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Old 2012-11-10, 19:09   Link #57
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My impression was that the illusion spell didn't change any of his attacks, but just the appearance and the reach thanks to the form being much bigger. So his attacks were doing the same amount of damage as they would have done in normal form. It was more the intimidation that caused the defenders to break rank.

I liked the bit about Kirito talking about how he wants to play an mmo. Although it's not just the effect your actions have on yourself, but you have to remember that you are playing with real people. It's unfortunately common in mmo's for people to treat others as if they were npcs, either forgetting or not caring that there's a real human being behind the character.
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Old 2012-11-10, 19:12   Link #58
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i like how Kirito and the last salamander became all buddy buddy afterward

and when is Kirito going to learn to stop sexually harassing female players.
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Old 2012-11-10, 19:20   Link #59
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
i like how Kirito and the last salamander became all buddy buddy afterward

and hen is Kirito going to learn to stop sexually harassing female players.
When Captain Kirk and Dylan Hunt stop having an episode acting like Rico Suave. I dunno. I hope SAO isn't going this direction. It's kinda weird too...
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Old 2012-11-10, 19:30   Link #60
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Regarding the "Illusion Magic", I agree with the explanation that it's a bit more than an illusion, but it doesn't change your fundamental stats. That would be why the leader said that it only increases his reach, but they can still defend themselves if they stay in formation. The problem was that he used his reach (and their frightened state) to beat their formation and so his SAO "cheater" stats were enough to wipe them out easily. So it's a bit unfair to call it only an "illusion", but perhaps no one has been able to take advantage of it the way he can due to his high stats (so if it were a normal player, even being in that large form wouldn't do them much good without any stat benefit beyond reach; they don't realize he has such high stats). (Edit: Actually, they do realize he has high stats, since that's why they sent the big party, but I guess they forgot that the formation couldn't stop him if he changed into his monster form.)

When they had the conversation before the OP, I was sort of facepalming a bit when Leafa said "your illusion magic just might save us one day", but for it to happen so soon was a bit...

That aside, we're really seeing a bit of a different flavour of Kirito in this game -- his real "gamer" side is coming through a lot more. I was of half a mind that he only told Leafa to stand back because he wanted to try his super move because it seemed cool. His excitement after the fact seemed to bear that out. The way his blackmailed the scrub for info was also pretty funny. (I take it that he needed to build up some sort of gauge before he could use the spell, or there was some sort of timer, otherwise he could have just used that right at the start of the battle. It seemed like he needed to wait for the right moment.)

I agree that in some ways it seems like he's taking a detour, but at the same time it's not like he actually knows for sure that Asuna's even there, and as was pointed out just getting there doesn't mean he can get there. Besides, if he helps Leafa out, maybe he can get more allies, which he might need. So it seems like a reasonable thing to me given the circumstance and what he knows. Of course, we know more than he does too.

And last but not least, Kirito's pretty damn unfair going on his big "cool" speeches, telling girls he loves them (as a friend) and grabbing their hand (because he's embarrassed)... he's way too smooth an operator for someone who (in a sense of it) is already married. I'm feeling more and more sorry for Suguha with each passing episode; fate is not nice to her at all.

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and when is Kirito going to learn to stop sexually harassing female players.
His biting her hand wasn't "sexual harassment", it was just plain harassment -- a bad joke that he didn't really think through. (Ironically, it's the sort of prank a brother might pull on their little sister...)
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