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Old 2012-11-10, 22:38   Link #401
Hiroi Sekai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemist007 View Post
...I don't think you used ME a lot if you think it's better than Vista
I dunno man, Windows ME was bad, but at least it didn't black screen and leave me with a dead computer.
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Old 2012-11-10, 22:44   Link #402
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
LMAO, now they have made an OS that can turn a $3000 into a $30 smartphone... good job MS! always in forefront of innovation



Your friend is right

1.0, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0 -> no clue
3.1 -> OKish, worse the MacOS, and way inferior to NeXTSTEP
95 -> awful
98 -> OKish
Me -> awful
XP -> OKish
vista -> worst ever
7 -> OKish
8 -> probably worse the vista

Unless one needs to run some closed source stupid software, he is better of with any version of linux, or if he is too lazy and can spend an extra buck MacOS.
did anyone ever use ME, i thought MS killed as soon as it came out. and you guys forgot Win2k which wasn't bad.
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Old 2012-11-10, 22:50   Link #403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
1.0, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0 -> no clue
3.1 -> OKish, worse the MacOS, and way inferior to NeXTSTEP
95 -> awful
98 -> OKish
Me -> awful
XP -> OKish
vista -> worst ever
7 -> OKish
8 -> probably worse the vista
The first 3 versions were nothing more than a graphical DOS shell, but only when 3.1 and later 3.11 came Windows became viable as a business OS, but paled in comparison with OS/2's stability.

Win95's user interface was unusual at the time, with the Start button that marked itself as different from its rivals. Win98 had a slight flaw, an alleged privacy intrusion feature that was built in until it was replaced by Win98SE, which was better.

WinMe, however, was buggy that it really crashed, and I had to revert back to Win98SE at the loss of some of my emails. The introduction of XP forced me to study about its predecessor Windows NT, but it turned out to be fine despite the occasional BSOD from drivers.

I avoided Vista at the time because of the monstrous system requirements, so I was never able to use it, making me stick to XP until this year.

Quote:
Unless one needs to run some closed source stupid software, he is better of with any version of linux, or if he is too lazy and can spend an extra buck MacOS.
As much as I admire Linux for its open-source stability (thus should be great for businesses, schools and governments needing to save much on enterprise-wide OS upgrades, and by extension avoid being harassed by the BSA) and OSX for its clean interface, I've been so grounded into Windows and gaming (and they're so intertwined ever since) for so long that it's still hard for me to let go of Win7 (and as it's widespread, fixing PCs that uses it is part of my job), even if Win8 looks enticing for an upgrade due to the less-than-demanding system requirements rather than the utterly confusing Metro interface (which is now becoming a butt of jokes).

Now going back to topic, I'm sure there will be adware applications no matter what OS we use.
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Old 2012-11-10, 23:00   Link #404
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I suppose Windows 8 can't get any worse. I use Mac OS X Mountain Lion for my main OS and use Windows 7 for Windows any Windows-only applications and I never have advertisements shoved in my face. It's already bad enough you have to pay for the top dollar for Windows 8, but shoving ads into the operating system hits a new low. It's such a shame since Windows 8 had some improvements such as the new task manager, drive spaces and some performance improvements, but it's completely ruined by Modern UI. Even if one installs Classic Shell and disable Modern UI like the plague, one may as well stay with Windows 7 unless you are going to use the new features.

To make things worse, my mom who currently use Windows 7 for her work doesn't have any idea how to use the new interface that Microsoft decides to force on everyone... If the average user gets confused on using the new interface that is designed for tablets, not for laptops/desktops, something is definitely wrong.
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Old 2012-11-10, 23:09   Link #405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chikorita157 View Post
If the average user gets confused on using the new interface that is designed for tablets, not for laptops/desktops, something is definitely wrong.
I've used computers, gone down to the command line, and the simple yet understandable interface on my good dumbphone, yet just recently I was completely stomped by my in-law's new tablet, as in "To format that SD card, WTF I should start from?"

This is why I'm never much of a gadget person.
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Old 2012-11-10, 23:21   Link #406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
did anyone ever use ME, i thought MS killed as soon as it came out. and you guys forgot Win2k which wasn't bad.
I had it on a Dell Dimension 4100 after my Gateway .
It came with a Pentium III processor at 933 MHz, 128 MB SDRAM at 133MHz (I upgraded to 384 MB) and a 40 GB Ultra ATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM) that I upgraded to 80 GB.
I kept Windows ME for all of just about a year and traded in the Dimension towards a Dell 8250 with Windows XP on it (that in 2001).

I must say that ME was the worst Windows OS I have ever used and I've been using Windows since Windows 3.1 (Tandy DOS based computer was my first from Radio Shack).

I have Vista "Ultimate" on my work laptop and it sucks up RAM like a black hole.
This causes my HP 9000 Pv to run as slow as mollasses in winter whenever I use Firfox, even so I like it better than ME.

Currently I'm using Windows 7 on a custom built computer (by me) and it works great.
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Old 2012-11-11, 10:41   Link #407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
I installed Windows 8 on another HD and it now it detects the driver under device manager. But still neither the tv tuner application or windows media center seem to be working. So I went ahead and sent the guy another email. Here is what I got:
Windows 8 lacks of MPEG1/2 support. Maybe you only need the codecs to make it work.

Also try using VLC and the "open capture device...", it has its own mpeg codecs.
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Old 2012-11-11, 10:52   Link #408
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Old 2012-11-11, 11:01   Link #409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimapan View Post
Let's not mention the crippled desktop either, which intentionally had the start menu removed, so you're forced to use that abysmal Metro to launch apps. Or that all apps launched by Metro run maximised now, if you want it or not.
1. Desktop is improved over 7. Lot's of enhancements like multi-monitor taskbar, explorer tweaks. Subjectively, there is no more butt-ugly glass.
2. The Start Screen Search, functionality wise is a lot better than the Start Menu. You can specify files/settings/apps when searching, which means there is less to type out until you get to what you were looking for.

If you use the Start Menu as an actually menu instead of a glorified search box, the Start Screen is a downgrade, but then again, if you are one of those people, you probably aren't concerned about productivity anyways.
3. The Start Screen doesn't launch apps maximized. No clue where you got this from.

Quote:
Now the "Shopping lens" suggestions in the new Ubuntu Unity already proved controversial, but they're quite unintrusive, and you can easily disable or even uninstall it
The ads I have seen so far are quite unintrusive. For one, they are in Metro apps, which you probably shouldn't use anyways. Also, you can uninstall built in Metro apps.

Quote:
(or even better, use Kde instead of stupid Gnome in the first place).
QFT. KDE > All else. Sadly, Linux gets bad battery life and doesn't run everything I need it to.

Quote:
Not so with Windows 8. There's no way to disable the ads - after all, MS wants to make lots of $$$ off you by selling space in your apps to advertising companies. The ads are also *way* more intrusive than what the shopping lens does, taking up ample space. Yes, I know that no one asked you if you want ads in your apps, but when did MS ever ask you if you want something or not? ... Exactly.
See above.

Quote:
Also, take a look on how you have a black ad on a very light background and a white ad on a dark background, to make sure the ad jumps at you the instant you open the app. After all, it's the most important part of the app now (for MS, at least).
Do note that the ad is at the very end of the app scroll screen. The important stuff is at the front. You know, where you land yourself when you open the app...
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Old 2012-11-11, 11:45   Link #410
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Wrong thread for this, but...

Just how bigger the linux community will be in a year, now that valve release Steam on linux((not so) closed beta test for now, but still)
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Old 2012-11-11, 12:09   Link #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by konart View Post
Wrong thread for this, but...

Just how bigger the linux community will be in a year, now that valve release Steam on linux((not so) closed beta test for now, but still)
It can be difficult to remember that geeks are a very small minority of the populace, and that linux will never have much support outside that circle. I don't see Steam on linux changing that.

That said, having fantasies-to some extent-is healthy, so I suppose there could be worse fantasies than thinking linux will ever be a mainstream product.

As far as ads in apps goes, I do think MS should have kept them out of their core free apps, with the possible exception of apps like Music, which have a payment option. For the record, as a long time Zune-pass subscriber, which transitioned over to Music, I get no ads if I'm signed in. The other apps do not (for now), have a "paid" version, however.

That said, with ads being the revenue stream for so many things on the internet today, I suspect their inclusion is far less of a deal than what the geek community-which is known for exaggerated outrage-might think.

As for this idea that you need a touch screen to use Windows 8, I chalk up to typical aforementioned exaggerated outrage. I don't have any Windows 8 (or phone) touch devices, and use the OS just fine. Frankly, I think touchscreen desktops and laptops are incredibly stupid, so manufacturers that seem to be doubling down on "all in" design with their new Windows 8 computers seems incredibly fool-hardy. The OS works just fine without touch, and in my view, touch is incredibly awkward when you are pushing parallel to the horizontal plane, rather than perpendicular to it. Pushing a sub-par experience just for the hell of it further shows how incredibly brain dead the PC OEM market is, which is why-I'm sure-so many of us "geeks" will continue building our own computers.

Last edited by creb; 2012-11-11 at 12:21.
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Old 2012-11-11, 14:06   Link #412
npal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random32 View Post
3. The Start Screen doesn't launch apps maximized. No clue where you got this from.
Metro apps ARE fullscreen.
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Old 2012-11-11, 15:48   Link #413
Random32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by konart View Post
Wrong thread for this, but...

Just how bigger the linux community will be in a year, now that valve release Steam on linux((not so) closed beta test for now, but still)
Probably not much. Depending on how many games are available, I might switch my desktop to full time Linux. Laptops will stay Windows for battery life + less times needing to use a VM to run stuff value.

Windows is installed by default on just about any new computer though. People won't make the effort to install something else which isn't really any more functional.

Quote:
Originally Posted by npal View Post
Metro apps ARE fullscreen.
There is a difference between Metro apps, and apps launched from the Start Screen...

Quote:
I suppose there could be worse fantasies than thinking linux will ever be a mainstream product.
Linux is exceedingly mainstream. Just not on desktop/laptops. Most webservers run Linux, most smartphones run Linux, a good portion of embedded devices run Linux.

Quote:
As for this idea that you need a touch screen to use Windows 8, I chalk up to typical aforementioned exaggerated outrage. I don't have any Windows 8 (or phone) touch devices, and use the OS just fine. Frankly, I think touchscreen desktops and laptops are incredibly stupid, so manufacturers that seem to be doubling down on "all in" design with their new Windows 8 computers seems incredibly fool-hardy. The OS works just fine without touch, and in my view, touch is incredibly awkward when you are pushing parallel to the horizontal plane, rather than perpendicular to it. Pushing a sub-par experience just for the hell of it further shows how incredibly brain dead the PC OEM market is, which is why-I'm sure-so many of us "geeks" will continue building our own computers.
QFT
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Old 2012-11-11, 16:03   Link #414
npal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random32 View Post

There is a difference between Metro apps, and apps launched from the Start Screen...
Yes, but I believe the point was regarding Metro Apps being fullscreen. Otherwise it makes no sense, we've known that desktop applications launch normally for months now.
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Old 2012-11-11, 16:55   Link #415
Random32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by npal View Post
Yes, but I believe the point was regarding Metro Apps being fullscreen. Otherwise it makes no sense, we've known that desktop applications launch normally for months now.
That is why I was so confused.

Maybe I'm interpreting wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimapan
Let's not mention the crippled desktop either, which intentionally had the start menu removed, so you're forced to use that abysmal Metro to launch apps. Or that all apps launched by Metro run maximised now, if you want it or not.
1. he starts off talking about the desktop.
2. "by" vs "in"
3. "if you want it or not" implies that when launched they are maximized, but can be minimized, but you can't change whether they are or not.
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Old 2012-11-11, 17:25   Link #416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
did anyone ever use ME, i thought MS killed as soon as it came out. and you guys forgot Win2k which wasn't bad.
I stayed on Win2KSP4 for just as long as I could.
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Old 2012-11-11, 20:20   Link #417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papermario13689 View Post
To be fair, 95 was revolutionary for its time and XP was the best operating system I ever used, but the rest is quite accurate (P.S. it's hard to tell if you dislike Vista or 8 more with your wording).
Vista was the most frustrating of all, but since I do not have 8 yet on a machine I have to work in, I can not be definitive about it... nonetheless observing how friends are frustrated by it, as well as it "feature" list, I think they will end up even worse then vista.

Quote:
Originally Posted by papermario13689 View Post
Just took a better look at Windows 8, and it looks like a kiddy playground that wants to be like its AppleOS daddy. Seriously, how about making an interface that's easy and reliable to use instead of shoving so much crap up its bum it has to live in the bathroom?
But windows did copy a lot of MacOS X look-and-feel already in 7. The problem is the windows architecture is not scaled like *nix OSs, kernel -> low-level API -> OO-API -> GUI. Both MacOS and iOS share the first two and a lot of the third, while the GUIs are totally different (the same is true to a great extend with linux and android)... in windows everything is mangled together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa547 View Post
The first 3 versions were nothing more than a graphical DOS shell, but only when 3.1 and later 3.11 came Windows became viable as a business OS, but paled in comparison with OS/2's stability.
Technically, windows was an extension to MS-DOS, until XP switched to NT kernel, which was better at the time, but not extensible (see above why).

Also IMHO, it was not that 3.x were groundbreaking or anything, but MS did a lot of smart marketing decisions to dominate the OS market, while its competitors were literally jerking off and free OS development did not had today's internet as well as was locked in legal battles with universities and research labs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa547 View Post
Win95's user interface was unusual at the time, with the Start button that marked itself as different from its rivals. Win98 had a slight flaw, an alleged privacy intrusion feature that was built in until it was replaced by Win98SE, which was better.
That stupid start button... how much I still hated it

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa547 View Post
As much as I admire Linux for its open-source stability (thus should be great for businesses, schools and governments needing to save much on enterprise-wide OS upgrades, and by extension avoid being harassed by the BSA) and OSX for its clean interface, I've been so grounded into Windows and gaming (and they're so intertwined ever since) for so long that it's still hard for me to let go of Win7 (and as it's widespread, fixing PCs that uses it is part of my job), even if Win8 looks enticing for an upgrade due to the less-than-demanding system requirements rather than the utterly confusing Metro interface (which is now becoming a butt of jokes).

Now going back to topic, I'm sure there will be adware applications no matter what OS we use.
MacOS since it switched to the NeXTSTEP kernel is the programmer's paradise, clean, scalable and thoroughly documented... plus it lets you use most non-GUI software without any modification and over an X11-shell all GUI software. The same can be said for most *nix GUIs, but for the users things are usually more complicated. Windows on the other hand, are a nightmare to program and the later version to use too.
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Old 2012-11-11, 23:19   Link #418
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Now I'm always trying to be open-minded about new technology, but so far Windows 8 hasn't really impressed me for two reasons. Please convince me!

1) Let's say I want to find something like the Control Panel or the Calculator. It takes a wonder to navigate anywhere to find it on Windows 8. I'm also not fond of memorizing more shortcut keys because of the lack of a Start Menu.

2) Let's say I just hit Start then type in "contr" and find it immediately. Windows 7 already has the "typing in to get what you want" so how is this any different? It just seems like Windows 8 removed the functionality of the menu and the type-in-the-program-you-want "feature" was already there in Windows 7.

There are more things Windows 8 has that's true, but I don't use dual monitors. Admittedly the desktop in Windows 8 is better. I'm just not sure if it outweighs the lack of a Start Menu for some people. Of course, there's no use for me arguing that Windows 8 sucks, because in a few years if I'm not used to it, I might get into trouble with my job. I just don't think it's a needed improvement over Windows 7. Or well, I just don't think it's needed to force Windows 8 onto new computers (and just make it tablets only). Are there some functionality enhancements for Windows 8? If all that's being offered is a "cooler desktop" and a "new sleek look", then I'm just not sure it's for me.
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Old 2012-11-11, 23:41   Link #419
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Pressing Start then simply typing in what you want, such as "Control Panel" is the same as it was in Windows 7 (and Vista), though results are split into Apps, Settings and Files.
The search feature has actually been expanded somewhat, where you can now search within Windows Store apps (e.g. searching within the Skydrive app).

Unfortunately, it does seem that Windows 8 has a rather steep learning curve, and the new shortcuts and features aren't exactly made obvious to the average Joe or Jane (such as viewing "All apps" by right clicking anywhere on the Start screen).
By far the most important two keyboard shortcuts would be:
Windows key + Q: Search
Windows key + C: Charms menu, which grants access to Search, as well as actually letting you power down the computer via Settings.
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Old 2012-11-12, 00:21   Link #420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
1) Let's say I want to find something like the Control Panel or the Calculator. It takes a wonder to navigate anywhere to find it on Windows 8. I'm also not fond of memorizing more shortcut keys because of the lack of a Start Menu.

2) Let's say I just hit Start then type in "contr" and find it immediately. Windows 7 already has the "typing in to get what you want" so how is this any different? It just seems like Windows 8 removed the functionality of the menu and the type-in-the-program-you-want "feature" was already there in Windows 7.
So, in 1) you complain about being difficult to find an app in Windows 8 and in 2) you complain that finding an app in Windows 8 is not any different than in Windows 7.

So, what's your real issue?
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