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Old 2012-10-30, 21:00   Link #41
yankky5
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Hey guys just wondering would if you ever heard of the Mass effect series video game (mainly 2 and 3) if you have I gotta say their weapons are awesome for their ability of their firearms lessen their size when not in use or their "omnitools" which are incredibly flexible if we could just put those things in a TSF or pilot it operational time on any model and survival chances of a pilot or soldier would definetly increase several folds

note: I know this is not related to japan in anyway
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Old 2012-10-30, 21:00   Link #42
Nerroth
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So, when it comes to third-gen TSFs,

Spoiler for TSFs:
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Old 2012-10-30, 22:51   Link #43
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One question,are most TSF movements(walking,grabbing,changing weapon,reload) per-programed?
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Old 2012-10-30, 23:16   Link #44
grevierr
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Just wanted to point out that this thread is for tech and politics that have already been shown in the TE anime already. Tech and stuff including unreleased TSFs and backgrounds are discussed in the Military Tactics, History, & Geo-Politics thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonkid11 View Post
One question,are most TSF movements(walking,grabbing,changing weapon,reload) per-programed?
Short answer, yes its pre programmed for most common tasks. But there are options to customize the actions to fit the pilot's response, thus Tarisa complaining that the actions are off when she piloted the XFJ-02 using Yuuya's feedback control system in ep 16. You can ask about how its customized in the other thread.
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Old 2012-10-31, 02:08   Link #45
Wild Goose
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankky5 View Post
Hey guys just wondering would if you ever heard of the Mass effect series video game (mainly 2 and 3) if you have I gotta say their weapons are awesome for their ability of their firearms lessen their size when not in use or their "omnitools" which are incredibly flexible if we could just put those things in a TSF or pilot it operational time on any model and survival chances of a pilot or soldier would definetly increase several folds

note: I know this is not related to japan in anyway
We've actually discussed this in the Fanfiction thread, in the early pages. The real point of having ME tech is that you get guns like the main gun on the Everest-class dreadnoughts, which fire a 20 kilogram ferrous slug at a speed so high, it impacts with 38 kilotons of force (force equivalent to 38,000 tons of TNT), which is the rough size of the nuke used on Hiroshima.... every five seconds.

So yeah, it's goodbye BETA with death via orbital strike; again, to most SF universes, the BETA are easy mode because those verses have orbital fire support. You have a ship in orbit, it can deliver fire support outside the Heavy Laser's range. The problem is that Alternative Earth doesn't have orbital fire support.

As for infantry weapons, yes and no, because mass accelerator weapons don't seem to be that much more powerful than conventional weapons, and have issues regarding heat buildup. A TSF armed with a mass accelerator cannon could have virtually unlimited ammo on a sortie... but it would also need a lot of time for cooldown, which is not ideal when you are facing a really big BETA horde and need Final Protective Fires, now.
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Old 2012-10-31, 02:48   Link #46
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^Hmm.... I guess I was late on that topic or i probably missed reading it; BTW as much as I like weapons of mass destruction I really wasnt talking about mass accelerator cannons that can blow a city clean off the map I was more inspired by the ability of weapons to carry a huge load amount of ammo, the ability of their guns to make itself small when not in use(awkward) and omni-tools effectiveness as a computer, mechanical repair tool, first aid and to be an emergency knife who's blade is hard as daimond = removing of knife in a TSF
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Old 2012-11-06, 03:10   Link #47
Dragonkid11
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Okay,so I was quite in a mood to write the crossover fanfic that I currently though of(but no time to write it at all)

Then I suddenly wonder,how heavy is a TSF?
Considering battlemech in Battletech is twice as short as a TSF but weighing at most 100 tons,I thought TSF would be heavy.

But since Muvluv is made in Japan,and you can clearly how that affected Gundam weigh...(7 tons for a 20 meters tall mech,really?),I kept wondering about the weigh of TSF...

That is until I found out that aircrafts that can carried TSF EXIST in real life!

So there are two aircrafts that can carry a TSF in Muvluv
The C-5 Galaxy,and the An-225

One can carry 81.6 tons and the other can carry 250 tons

The C-5 Galaxy was seen in Alternative carrying the Shiranuis for the Valkyries
The An-225 can carry a freaking re-entry shell

While I don't how many Shiranui can one C-5 Galaxy carry,But based on the fact that the cargo compartment of the Galaxy is 5 meters wide,4 meters high,and 30.5 meters long,it definitely can carry one Shiranui(which have a height of 19 meters). It's also possibly that the Galaxy also carry assault cannon,sword and possibly spare parts.

The An-225 on the other hand can carry a re-entry shell that can store two TSFs.Since the re-entry shell have thick armor that can withstand laser far more longer than TSF could,the armor might be REALLY heavy.

So,for the conclusion,a TSF could have a average of 50 to 100 tons in weigh.And Generation 1 TSF might be even heavier,much much more heavier

Still insanely light for something that huge though,but then they must have used a lot of supercarbon...carbon which is a lot more lighter than steel

Now my analysis is done and I hope this report would impress you guys in some ways
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Old 2012-11-06, 03:37   Link #48
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For something that can jump and land so nimbly I'd be putting their weight a lot lower than a 50-100 ton bracket.
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Old 2012-11-06, 03:41   Link #49
Dragonkid11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grylsyjaeger View Post
For something that can jump and land so nimbly I'd be putting their weight a lot lower than a 50-100 ton bracket.
Any more lighter and even wind could send them flying...

Not something you want to use to fight alien that weigh hundreds of tons

Also,I have calculated that a TSF with Rush Guard configuration would have atleast 25 tons of 36mm rounds(By calculating the amount of 2000x36mm magazines the rush guard formation have and the weight of 36mm cartridges....however,I only find the weight of 30mm DU round,so it might be even more heavier than that)

That would make the A-10 having huge drum magazines made of magic though....

Last edited by Dragonkid11; 2012-11-06 at 04:47.
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Old 2012-11-06, 05:42   Link #50
Wild Goose
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I'd just note that jet fighters at full load average between 20 to 30 tons; the F-15, for example, has a max load of 22 tons.
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Old 2012-11-06, 06:05   Link #51
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I couldn't see a third gen like the Shiranui weighing more than 30-40 tons dry. And if you go by most modern aircraft carrying about 60% of their dry weight again in ordnance they may very well tip sixty tons in a full combat load.

Then again like modern aircraft they aren't always going to deploy with the heaviest load out depending on their position within the flight.
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Old 2012-11-06, 07:09   Link #52
Wild Goose
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Also, much of that load is in ammo and fuel, both of which are going to get used up very quickly.
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Old 2012-11-13, 17:56   Link #53
calubin_175
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I was wondering why the Royal Guard were still using Zuikakus when F-15J Kagerous were available to the regular imperial army? The Kagerous were at least in production at least 5 years until they decided on switching to the Shiranui.

Is it because the Zuikaku is more of a status symbol and they didn't invest in a royal guard version of the Kagerou?
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Old 2012-11-13, 20:41   Link #54
Wild Goose
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Basically, yes.

The imperial Royal Guard have certain... strange notions.
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Old 2012-11-14, 04:21   Link #55
Timsel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonkid11 View Post
Now my analysis is done and I hope this report would impress you guys in some ways
Excellent and realistic analysis- bravo.
One thing that I want to add - looking at TSF engines, that definitely more powerful than newest real engines of combat jets, we can safely assume, that if "Mria" is equiped with some analog of TSF engines, it could lift far more weight than 250 t.

I am too participated in some MLA fanfic and we set TSF weight as 150-200 tons there. It seems more realistic, assuming that TSF weren`t consist of morning mist
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Old 2012-11-14, 06:03   Link #56
Dragonkid11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timsel View Post
Excellent and realistic analysis- bravo.
One thing that I want to add - looking at TSF engines, that definitely more powerful than newest real engines of combat jets, we can safely assume, that if "Mria" is equiped with some analog of TSF engines, it could lift far more weight than 250 t.

I am too participated in some MLA fanfic and we set TSF weight as 150-200 tons there. It seems more realistic, assuming that TSF weren`t consist of morning mist
Thank you for you compliment.

Today,I decided to calculate the weight of TSF by using its volume

So...a Shiranui is 19 meters tall

Based on my last post,the C-5 Galaxy has a cargo compartment that is 5 meters wide,4 meters tall and 30 meters long

We shall give it a volume of 380 cubic meters(19x5x4),which should roughly predict the volume of Shiranui.(Probably half of that though,considering TSF isn't that fat...)

A lot of super carbon was used to make Shiranui,maybe that's why human can make a lot of TSF,carbon is everywhere.

Anyway,by using density of carbon(in diamond form,because it probably the closest to the fictional super carbon)

I got a weight value of....1335tons...
Well,I didn't expected that

If Shiranui was that heavy then the XG-70 would be....

Suddenly,the forts class ability to break ship in half with one strike seemed so possible now

Anyway,let not think about physic too much...

Although BETA being consist of that much of carbon would greatly help my character in my fanfiction
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Old 2012-11-14, 06:04   Link #57
Wild Goose
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Thing is, that weight is way too high for a TSF. Hell, even most main battle tanks don't outmass 70-80 tons.

Given the dimensions of the TSFs, and how nimbly they move, I'd say their max takeoff weight would correspond to their IRL analogues. So we're looking at a range somewhere around 25-35 tons for 2nd and 3rd Gen TSFs.

Also, different things will weigh differently depending on their density - it's why if you take an identically-sized block of wood and a block of gold, the gold will be heavier.
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Old 2012-11-14, 06:10   Link #58
Dragonkid11
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Let us pray that God of Physic would not exert his power(logic) onto the world of fictional,or else everything would came crashing down.
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Old 2012-11-14, 06:19   Link #59
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I can only imagine a tsf around 50 tons and not greater than 100 tons. Too much weight will affect the speed.
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Old 2012-11-14, 11:01   Link #60
Wild Goose
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Well, yeah, but this is the first time where I see people arguing for ridiculously heavy weights and my lighter weight being dismissed due to logic, lol.

I'll just point out, gents, that logically, given the smaller wing area on TSFs, to achieve lift and flight while weighing 100 tons would be nigh-on impossible.

"But Goose, we have planes that weigh 250 tons!"

Yes, and those planes have massive wing area that generates a crapton more lift.

At the end of the day, however, this is trivia - TSFs weigh as much as they need to. Nobody will actually really need the exact weight of a TSF.
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