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Old 2012-11-14, 00:45   Link #561
aohige
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Originally Posted by Rainrir View Post
Where did it say Sinbad is pitching in? As far as I know, Sinbad only uses the barrier to kick Elsnan's ass after he tried to escape.

Also I am not a Mognostatt worshipper. I just don't like reductionist arguments.
Well damnit, I'm at work, and I don't have the volumes at my hand.
You'll have to give me an hour or so for me to fetch the damn thing.

PS: I should digitize everything I have and carry it on me one of these days.
"one of these days" seems to be one of those things that never comes.
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Old 2012-11-14, 00:51   Link #562
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Regardless of whether or not Sinbad pitched in or not, there's one thing that Moganett missed out... or perhaps even he doesn't even know about it.

Yamuraiha has Magoi Storage Magic Tools.

Doesn't that theoretically mean that so long as there's measures to which Yamuraiha could sustain and store reasonable outputs of magic, presumably with assistance of other mages in Sindria ( I'm assuming she's not the only one... ), she shouldn't be facing the so-called early death scenario that Moganett is thinking she's in.

Maybe she is, but at this point, it's pure speculation even on Moganett's part, just because that's how his 'magic system' works in his kingdom.

Actually, this whole discussion on the system of his nation is so very ironic, when coupled with the fact that Yamuraiha has the ability to create magoi storing tools.

Because in that scenario, if Yamuraiha was capable of creating a huge enough magoi storing tank for there to be a 'manageable supply of magoi', and Moganett was less racist and created a taxation rule that didn't treat gois like livestock...

His nation could be a lot better, without massively sacrificing the current ability to maintain it's magic. ( Some would be sacrificed, since nothing beats brute extraction to the point it could kill physically weak people, but hey, you win some, you lose some. )
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Old 2012-11-14, 01:02   Link #563
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ah, got it. It was in volume 12.

Yamu says the two kekkai were created by her and the King.
I was assuming what the king did to create them was pitching in his magoi since he's not a magician himself, what else could it mean?

But I guess that's making assumption on my end too.

Then there's the magoi battery.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainrir View Post
Actually, this whole discussion on the system of his nation is so very ironic, when coupled with the fact that Yamuraiha has the ability to create magoi storing tools.

Because in that scenario, if Yamuraiha was capable of creating a huge enough magoi storing tank for there to be a 'manageable supply of magoi', and Moganett was less racist and created a taxation rule that didn't treat gois like livestock...

His nation could be a lot better, without massively sacrificing the current ability to maintain it's magic. ( Some would be sacrificed, since nothing beats brute extraction to the point it could kill physically weak people, but hey, you win some, you lose some. )
Well, only Yamu knows how to make the magoi battery at this point.
Dumberdouch, like I said, is way over his head, when in fact he's not as all-knowing as he claims to be.
Obviously this one genius has at least one technology in the upper hand than him.
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Old 2012-11-14, 01:04   Link #564
Rainrir
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Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post
Maybe she is, but at this point, it's pure speculation even on Moganett's part, just because that's how his 'magic system' works in his kingdom.
Yeah. But we all know Moganett subscribes to the "RATHER 1000 GOI LIVES than 1 MAGICIAN'S LIFE" (which is basicall what parts of Is****i society thinks when it comes to the Pal*******s). Overprotective people tends to assume the worst about the protectee's chances. There is not alot of stuff known about the barrier thus far or how does the Magoi storage device works, but what we do know is

1) Sinbad is capable of doing some pretty questionable things if it means protecting his nation.
2) Sinbad did help develop the barrier. However, it is unknown if he actually actively powers it.
3) Yamu probably would lie to Sinbad about the real costs of the barrier to protect a nation she loves if there is a cost.
4) Yamu is kind of selfless...sometimes, basically she still thinks like Moganett used to.
5) The Magoi storage device is probably very difficult to make seeing that it is such a new technology and noone else seem to be able to replicate that, which begs the question of whether the Yamu can scale it up (instead of the smaller ones she wears on herself)

Though I think it probably make some of Shakkarn's words more sinister if Yamu is indeed burning herself out for Sindaria, you know...his constant admolistions for her to "stop messing around with Magic" and "Magic sucks, Swordsmanship is enough". Though that could be over-reading into things. However, we all know YamuxShakky is basically the only canon couple in this manga (and the bestest couple)...so Shakky being concerned for Yamu is not....out of the question.
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Old 2012-11-14, 01:08   Link #565
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Originally Posted by Starshipw View Post
For anyone interested in the ethical question of whether it could ever be acceptable to treat an innocent child horribly for the greater good, I recommend the award winning short story "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" by Ursula K. LeGuin.

http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/faculty/du...nts.omelas.pdf

(It is an educational site so I assume linking to it is acceptable.)

Spoiler for Plot Summary from Wikipeedia:


Would you walk away from Omelas?

If you go by the Christian set of beliefs, then the choice of self exile is the correct choice, as the best choice a Christian can make in this situation is to leave the city and repent via exile. I don't believe a Christian would kill innocents (all the children who have not learned of the truth yet) to save another innocent. There is also comfort to know that the child who suffers would be saved after death.

If you don't subscribe to any kind of greater truth/law, then both choices are correct. The people who choose to stay in the city accept that it is a necessary evil and the people who leave decide to punish themselves via exile. In both cases, the chooser is at peace with themselves, but the child who is made to suffer is not saved, and the system is not changed in any way to prevent further suffering.

The 'correct' choice really depends on what kind of world belief you subscribe to. I personally think any 'correct' choice would involve the asking the whether they want to be free. Of course, it's not as simple as just going up to them and asking, as they might not even be able to comprehend the choice you're offering them, or the ramifications should they decide to be free. However, if somehow you can create a situation where they can make an informed decision and they choose freedom, and everyone in the city is made aware of that decision, then I believe the right choice would be to do everything in your power to help that child become free.

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@Misconceptions of the system
Firstly, there is zero indication that most young ones die early like Marga. I am not sure where people pull that idea from, but the existance of young of non-dying young children is shown again and againm and the fact that there are actual youths (like in the teens) in the 5th would indicate that MOST 5th goi do not die young. Only people born with low Magoi, like Marga (or Morgiana if she was born here), would die young. Mogarett already said that death rates are far lower than it was before, this cannot be true of the young are dying en masse (considering the amount of screwing going on in the 5th, I doubt there is a lack of for such data to be "invisible").

Secondly, I don't really see the chancellor as a "Nazi". Again, he is more of a colonialist who thinks that the "barely human savages" should live under the "enlightened rule" of their betters. Replace "Magicians and Goi" with "Americans/Europeans and Rest of the World", and you have the thinking that still persists in some circles till this day. I think there should be clarity on the difference between "Colonialist" thinking and actual "Nazi" thinking. Mostly because, Nazi is such a loaded word that it becomes thought terminating these days. He already said he is not out to abuse or kill all the Goi (that would make him Nazi), he merely thinks that the Goi are not capable of ruling themselves and needs to be kept down permanently for the good of everyone, including the Goi themselves (that is Colonialist thinking).

Thirdly, Mogarett doesn't have black rukh because he seriously believed in what he is doing. He does sincerely want a place for Magicians. The girl from Kou already said how she is seen as a freak back at home, while Sphintus showed us how Magicians are being used by non-Magicians for political purposes, then discarded. All I can say again, is that Mogarett is basically what Magneto is originally, before they watered down his character. I don't see how he mentions he is "superior of Scheherazade", he merely says that he wants to help people with magical potential like Yamu and Scheherazade to avoid the fate of being exploited by the Goi for their own ends. Note that if Yamu really IS burning her own lifespan to help Sinbad, I would consider Sinbad to be as horrible as the Mustaphim nobility in terms of exploitation. And from what I see of Sinbad, that is totally within what he is capable of if it protects his Kingdom.

Of course, his view of seeing Goi as merely animals is detestable. But as Aladdin said, this makes him beyond good and evil...just...well...crazy...with some good intentions and alot of trauma from his own past.

@How to solve the problem

Ultimately, the question is really complex here. "Blowing shit up" isn't going to save anyone. To save everyone, the real difficult questions are as follows.

1) Without the magoi contributions to the magical devices, how is the nation supposed to maintain the level of crop production that made it possible to feed everyone? Remember, the 5th Goi are no longer subjected to things like famine, despite their unproductivity. One of the defining features of the current regime is that the Goi basically pay for their own food with their Magoi (which is actually fairer than forcing magicians to use their Magoi on crops for the sake of the Goi). Blowing stuff up merely will cause mass famine for everyone, including the Goi that such an action is meant to help.

2) Despite the unhappiness of some of the young 5th at a destiny they never chose for themselves. A large population of the 5th do not want to be productive, as seen on the "field trip" of the magician students. They will never get such an impression if most of the 5th Goi actually want out.

More problematically, they had been unproductive for a long time (10 years). That amount of time being unproductive make people lose essential skills that are needed for work. Especially if a majority had not farmed in years? More importantly, the young of the 5th have absolutely ZERO skills to speak of. By releasing them from this system, how are they suppose to find employment or be productive when they don't even know how to farm?

Everyone can say that everybody can pick up themselves by their bootstraps, but people who think like that never saw people who have been out of the labour market for decades. In reality, "going back to work" after a prolonged period of "not working" is difficult. This is due to the suden liefstyle change and the fact that these people do not possess the skill that is in demand by the economy by then.

3) The 5th Goi youths might be unhappy with their current existance. Yet the real question is that under the old Mustaphim, would their lot really be any different? Right now, they are fed, given medical care and kept warm, but are condemned to a life of unproductivity and zero opportunity. Under the old monachy, they would be hungry, vulnerable to disease and cold, while still being condemned to a life of slaving in the fields with almost no other opportunity. Any "blowing up" of a system like this requires answering how are things such as opportunity are supposed to be afforded to the youths of 5th?

4) What kind of status should the Magicians have in this new system? While I do not buy Mogarett's idea that they are fundamentally a different species from the normal humans, the fact is that their abilities already make them functionally different from normal humans. As a result, equality of treatment is nearly impossible, in the light of their natural abilities that normal humans do not have. Are they obliged to help the Goi at the expense of their own lives when there are natural disasters (like in the old Monarchy), just because they have the power to? How are we supposed to prevent the exploitation of the magicians by the masses? Right now the system basically make every 5th Goi "substitute" the livelihood of other 5th Goi by draining Magoi indiscriminately, instead of the old way of making the Magicians "substitute" the livelihood of the Goi by burning down their lives. In some sense, it is actually fairer than it was before.

If it was up to popular vote, the Magicians would almost always be outvoted on situations in which the magicians would sacrifice for the "greater good". Democracy does not necessary solve that problem, without basic decency from the electorate (which is lacking, seeing how they behaved in the old Kingdom). In a non-magician-ruled kingdom, the Kings/Aristocrats would always monoplize and oppress the Magicians as they are the key to political power, which would have led us back to the Mustashim situation. So, how do we make sure there is no repeat of such shit?

I am interested to see what kind of proposal people who want to "blow up the system" have to answering such issues.
I think the correct way to fix the system is to not have children be born into the 5th district. They should be raised in the 4th district and given a basic education. After a certain age they can be given a choice of whether to continue their education, join the 5th district, or leave the city. Everyone should be given a chance at self-actualization, even if they were destined to end up in the 5th district anyways. From an utilitarian standpoint, you'd end up with roughly the same amount of GOI's in the 5th district, as people who are unable to support themselves will end up there anyways. However, the chance of revolution would be even lower as everyone who is in the 5th district would have realized that is their place, and you'd end up with a small percentage of truly hardworking or talented GOI's who will contribute to the society. I think Dumbledouche's blind hatred for GOI prevents him from seeing the merits of such a system, and will eventually lead to his downfall.
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Old 2012-11-14, 01:10   Link #566
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@Rainrir
Oh, and as for reductionist argument...
My stance is "if the shoe fits".

There's no need to dance around the subject, when a pile of bullshit stinks, you know what it is.

You may say "but but but that's simplifying things!"
Yeah, well, complex maze made out of bull dung is still BS. IMHO of course.

Mogamett is an arrogant prick who is way over his head.
There's no need to defend it, it's plain as the sky is blue. And I wouldn't argue WHY the sky is blue, it's pointless.

The situation here isn't as complex as people make it out to be.
In fact, it's actually quite simple! The probem isn't the system, the gois, the nature of society and behavior of slums... nope.
One racist douchebag. Correction. One BLIND racist douchebag. That's all.
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Old 2012-11-14, 01:19   Link #567
Nightengale
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Originally Posted by Rainrir View Post
Though I think it probably make some of Shakkarn's words more sinister if Yamu is indeed burning herself out for Sindaria, you know...his constant admolistions for her to "stop messing around with Magic" and "Magic sucks, Swordsmanship is enough". Though that could be over-reading into things.
That's definitely over-reading... Just the notion that Sinbad had sexually harassed her before already made him go all o_0.

If Sinbad's actively condoning something that'll kill her?

Even Ja'far, whom is almost surely the most trusted and loyal of the Eight Generals already feel super uncomfortable with what Sinbad does... with outsiders, much less their own.

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However, we all know YamuxShakky is basically the only canon couple in this manga (and the bestest couple)...so Shakky being concerned for Yamu is not....out of the question.
Also 100% one-sided on Sharkann's side, if the tegakis are to be believed.

( which should be, since the author mentioned it was supposed to be an official omake at first. )

Moganett seems to have caused her to have a fetish/preference for older men + beards. >.>
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Old 2012-11-14, 01:19   Link #568
Rainrir
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Originally Posted by aohige View Post
@Rainrir
Oh, and as for reductionist argument...
My stance is "if the shoe fits".

There's no need to dance around the subject, when a pile of bullshit stinks, you know what it is.

You may say "but but but that's simplifying things!"
Yeah, well, complex maze made out of bull dung is still BS. IMHO of course.

Mogamett is an arrogant prick who is way over his head.
There's no need to defend it, it's plain as the sky is blue. And I wouldn't argue WHY the sky is blue, it's pointless.
I think it takes out the character complexity if we do that. I do agree that Mogamett's system is BS to modern sensibilities, but as a historian I always feel should evaluate the society by its historical circumstances.

Magoshuatt's system does have certain strengths that make it better than the cattle slavery or even serfdom that is pervalent in the rest of Magi's world. More importantly, how to dismantle the system without causing massive deaths (like Kassim vs Aladdin) is a legitimate question.

Sindaria is a completely outlier because 1) Island Nation with a small population 2) It basically has a free nearly-infinite protein source and the ability to exploit it 3) Trade Route and the exclusive exports that are in great demand 4) The existance of what is basically a nuclear weapon that ensures the nation's survival and power (Sinbad).
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Old 2012-11-14, 01:23   Link #569
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Originally Posted by Rainrir View Post
I think it takes out the character complexity if we do that. I do agree that Mogamett's system is BS to modern sensibilities, but as a historian I always feel should evaluate the society by its historical circumstances.

Magoshuatt's system does have certain strengths that make it better than the cattle slavery or even serfdom that is pervalent in the rest of Magi's world. More importantly, how to dismantle the system without causing massive deaths (like Kassim vs Aladdin) is a legitimate question.

Sindaria is a completely outlier because 1) Island Nation with a small population 2) It basically has a free nearly-infinite protein source and the ability to exploit it 3) Trade Route and the exclusive exports that are in great demand 4) The existance of what is basically a nuclear weapon that ensures the nation's survival and power (Sinbad).
There's a difference beween history and this though. Well, other than the fictional part.
The fact is, we're seeing events of Magnoshutatt in god-perspective, with no historical interpretation necessary. We can see the vile in its rawest form, basically how "it is".

Because as readers we are seeing from a unique perspective, the baggage such as historical viewpoint can be entirely neglected, we are given a third-person view already.

So no, it's not bad at all to call out what is.

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Though I think it probably make some of Shakkarn's words more sinister if Yamu is indeed burning herself out for Sindaria, you know...his constant admolistions for her to "stop messing around with Magic" and "Magic sucks, Swordsmanship is enough". Though that could be over-reading into things. However, we all know YamuxShakky is basically the only canon couple in this manga (and the bestest couple)...so Shakky being concerned for Yamu is not....out of the question.
Oh, I have to apologize. You belong to a different cult sect.... the Tsundere x Tsundere pairing cult!

..... Where do I sign up?
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Old 2012-11-14, 01:24   Link #570
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The situation here isn't as complex as people make it out to be.
In fact, it's actually quite simple! The probem isn't the system, the gois, the nature of society and behavior of slums... nope.
One racist douchebag. Correction. One BLIND racist douchebag. That's all.
The hilarity of Moganett's story is that the author somehow tries to sugar-coat Moganett's douchebaggery and brainwashing via the proxy claim of 'the old administration was worse!"

"I'm only making it less worse!! And look at all the goodie bags and freebies I give!!"

Politician talk at its finest and lowest.

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Oh, I have to apologize. You belong to a different cult sect.... the Tsundere x Tsundere pairing cult!

..... Where do I sign up?
... Who's not in the cult though?

Not including the tons of crazies in Pixiv that pair Yamuraiha with every other members of the Generals ( except Ja'far, because somehow Ja'far x Sinbad is a Magi fangirl's wet dream )
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Old 2012-11-14, 01:25   Link #571
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That's definitely over-reading... Just the notion that Sinbad had sexually harassed her before already made him go all o_0.

If Sinbad's actively condoning something that'll kill her?

Even Ja'far, whom is almost surely the most trusted and loyal of the Eight Generals already feel super uncomfortable with what Sinbad does... with outsiders, much less their own.
Like Jaffar, Shakkarn might tolerate that because "they don't have a choice". Plus, it is kinda obvious that the barrier is meant for the organization, and I think Sinbad definitely have the intention to finish this fight within the forseeable future. It might be a compromise for Shakkarn to accept that fact until the beat the organization.

Though I do admit I am probably overreading it AS I SAID BEFORE.

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Also 100% one-sided on Sharkann's side, if the tegakis are to be believed.

( which should be, since the author mentioned it was supposed to be an official omake at first. )

Moganett seems to have caused her to have a fetish/preference for older men + beards. >.>
Not as uncanon as you think, look at Yamu's expression and what Shakky is saying. The second one is pretty much a word for word version of what Shakky says when commenting on the Yamu fight later. Not to mention that Miss Ohtaka likes to mess with everyone's heads when it comes to pairings. Remember the dreaded "Morgiana doesn't have romantic feelings for Alibaba" announcement after the Hakuryuu "First Base" attempt.

It is just that Shakky is more...obvious than Yamu.

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There's a difference beween history and this though. Well, other than the fictional part.
The fact is, we're seeing events of Magnoshutatt in god-perspective, with no historical interpretation necessary. We can see the vile in its rawest form, basically how "it is".

Because as readers we are seeing from a unique perspective, the baggage such as historical viewpoint can be entirely neglected, we are given a third-person view already.

So no, it's not bad at all to call out what is.
I am more like evaluating the system within the fictional world's standards. Instead of basing it on what our own real world is like. I think Ohtaka totally intended Moganett to be "grey" than totally elul. On a superficial level things are definitely "better", but it basically requires a warped world view to come up with something like that.

So yeah, not very different from Magneto (who have tons of sympathy from other people, is it because he is hot?...for an old guy).

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Oh, I have to apologize. You belong to a different cult sect.... the Tsundere x Tsundere pairing cult!

..... Where do I sign up?
It is not a cult, it is a READING SOCIETY, cuz you know, subtext.

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Old 2012-11-14, 01:40   Link #572
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I am more like evaluating the system within the fictional world's standards. Instead of basing it on what our own real world is like. I think Ohtaka totally intended Moganett to be "grey" than totally elul.
I think Ohtaka isn't really intending to blur the lines, but rather, inform the readers that rukh isn't as reliable guideline as previously believed, which leads to character development for Aladdin.
I think Moghamett is rather intended as a grey at first outlook, but once you take away the facade, completely dark. Him being an evil that's not self-aware leads to the previous statement about rukh not being an absolute guideline.

The story is, in my opinion, a growth for Aladdin to judge with his own eyes instead of relying on rukh. And for that to work, Dumberdouche has to be a "bad guy".

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It is not a cult, it is a READING SOCIETY, cuz you know subtext.
And soon to be LEADING SOCIETY amirite?
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Old 2012-11-14, 01:54   Link #573
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I think Ohtaka isn't really intending to blur the lines, but rather, inform the readers that rukh isn't as reliable guideline as previously believed.
I rather think Moghamett is intended as a gray at first outlook, but once you take away the facade, completely dark. Him being an evil that's not self-aware leads to the previous statement about rukh not being an absolute guideline.

The story is, in my opinion, a growth for Aladdin to judge with his own eyes instead of relying on rukh. And for that to work, Dumberdouche has to be a "bad guy".
Well, it comes down to interpetation. However, the world of Magi is definitely not all flowers and rainbows. I think she does intend for comparisons to be draw about what is happening in different parts of the Magi world.

The white/black Rukh thing is basically hating one's destiny, which COULD lead to dog-kicking evilness (Kassim and to some extent Dunya). Considering how well things are going for Mogamett, I doubt you will see that unless things crash and burn horribly. Unlike Kassim and Dunya who channeled their unhappy past to "destructive" pursuits, Moganett....channeled his unhappy past into making what seems to be a "constructive" vision to help his fellow magicians (he is maybe glad that it open his eyes from his old "wrong" beliefs). I think therein lies the difference.

You are right that Aladdin probably learn not to fully trust the white Rukh here, but that is secondary to...

I think the real growth here is for Aladdin to see that a perfectly good intentioned, even kind, person can end up doing evil that leads to everyone's ruin. Almost every single villian he has met thus far is either evil because of ambition/greed (The early filler villians + Kassim), or wallowing in hatred and revenge (Dunya). Aladdin even noted that Mogarett sincerely wants to help all the magicians and there is zero doubt about that.

Quote:
And soon to be LEADING SOCIETY amirite?
Only if we re-educate all the non-believers READERS.

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Old 2012-11-14, 02:09   Link #574
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But you see, that's were we differ.

I don't give two-crap about SOB story for a douchebag.
I really don't care if Stalin had "good intentions".

Regardless of what kind of sob story they have, a racist prick is a racist prick, and their supposed "complexity" means jack to me. That's where the "if the shoe fits" comes in play.

It would satisfy me to see Sceherazade step on his face with a heel, laughing off his "pity" at her, putting the young lad (by comparison) in his place. Actually, that would be sex. Hell, boards will be filled with worshippers immediately.

C'mon, yall agree that would be sex, right? *looks at the crowd*
Imagine Scheherazade with that same look Aladdin gave Jamil back in Amon dungeon, that "you filthy piece of trash" look down, stepping on him with a high heel. That's some serious porn right there.
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Old 2012-11-14, 04:56   Link #575
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But you see, that's were we differ.

I don't give two-crap about SOB story for a douchebag.
I really don't care if Stalin had "good intentions".

Regardless of what kind of sob story they have, a racist prick is a racist prick, and their supposed "complexity" means jack to me. That's where the "if the shoe fits" comes in play.
But Moganett isn't Stalin, just as Stalin wasn't Hitler, who wasn't Mao, who wasn't Tito, who wasn't Genghis Khan, who wasn't Napoleon, who wasn't Alexander. I doubt there really is any real life parallel for the Chancellor, nor does any real life figure has the same context as him.

A racist prick can be a racist prick for no valid reason based on fantasies about the "other". On the other hand, a racist prick can also be a racist prick because his experiences taught him that it is true. The reality is that both the nobles, the king and the commoners that he once helped turned against him and his kind, this hardens attitudes...and gives his story selling power to his fellow magicians (Just like the Hol***** have selling power to alot of the Is****is about their treatment of the Pal*******s, another example is WW2 with the Chi**** against the Ja*******.) The complexity matters when we want to see the possible solutions to the problem, his "SOB" story matter when you need to dismantle it to win over the other magicians for something new.

Or is the closed fist going to solve all the problems? (aka just punch any magician that disagrees?)

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Originally Posted by aohige View Post
It would satisfy me to see Sceherazade step on his face with a heel, laughing off his "pity" at her, putting the young lad (by comparison) in his place. Actually, that would be sex. Hell, boards will be filled with worshippers immediately.

C'mon, yall agree that would be sex, right? *looks at the crowd*
Imagine Scheherazade with that same look Aladdin gave Jamil back in Amon dungeon, that "you filthy piece of trash" look down, stepping on him with a high heel. That's some serious porn right there.
We don't know enough about her to know if she is really one of the good guys. For all we knows she might be as insane as Judal, just in a different way. From how Titus reacts to her and how she acts to Titus, she might not necessarily be all "good".

You only like her because she's a legal loli and cute!
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Old 2012-11-14, 05:08   Link #576
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Or is the closed fist going to solve all the problems? (aka just punch any magician that disagrees?)
And why do we need to solve the problem?
It's a shounen manga, and a good, swift, punch to the face is satisfying. There, I said it.

I don't mind a Luffy-approach of, "STFU PUNCH, ok, jerk is out of my way.
You people deal with your own issues, not my problem".

No really, if the resolve is to have Christ-like savior to do all the work for them, I say to hell with it.
Obviously Aladdin is not Luffy, so he'll try to come up with an answer of his own.
But he shouldn't be providing all the answers anyways. That's spoiling the miserable human populace.
He is not a revolutionalist, a politician, nor is he here to babysit the stupid mortals.

Look, we all agree that the fundamental idea of magoi tax isn't the issue, it's the execution.
And that all comes down to the racial blindness of the leader at the core of the issue, nothing else. It's quite simple.
If you want the boring "Hey let's talk some sense into the man, he's not that unreasonable!".
Well, good luck with that, let's just bore the crap out of Weekly Shounen Sunday readership shall we.

Nah, this is an action adventure shounen manga. Not a political fantasy porn.
Thus, I want a satisfying shounen action adventure resolve.

It's very simple. "I'd enjoy seeing the douche get what's coming to him."
This is not Bessatsu Business Political Monthly Big Comics Spirits Superior FXDXYZ.

Quote:
We don't know enough about her to know if she is really one of the good guys. For all we knows she might be as insane as Judal, just in a different way. From how Titus reacts to her and how she acts to Titus, she might not necessarily be all "good".
What does her being good or bad have anything to do with me wanting to see her step on his face again?

Quote:
You only like her because she's a legal loli and cute!
I am unable to see the problem here.
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Old 2012-11-14, 05:34   Link #577
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Originally Posted by aohige View Post
/snip

Nah, this is an action adventure shounen manga. Not a political fantasy porn.
Thus, I want a satisfying shounen action adventure resolve.

It's very simple. "I'd enjoy seeing the douche get what's coming to him."
This is not Bessatsu Business Political Monthly Big Comics Spirits Superior FXDXYZ.
Bessatu Business Political Month Big Comic Spirits Superior FXDXYZ magazines in Japan have mostly wish fulfillment "politics" that cater to bored salaryman, or looney rightwingers, or "basement politicians". Magi's Balbadd arc is probably more "real" than those pretentious crap. Balbadd already showed us that the situation doesn't always get resolved easily, or neatly which give the manga are more realistic edge.

There is nothing wrong with getting a realistic settlement AND pwning the bad guy. Though I still think Chancellor has not went full on EVLUL yet.

Plus some realism could make this the next FMA, you know. Instead of the next....Bleach (a series where the solution is to punch the next guy).

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Originally Posted by aohige View Post
What does her being good or bad have anything to do with me wanting to see her step on his face again?

/snip

I am unable to see the problem here.
Well, at least you are true and honest with your desires.
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Old 2012-11-14, 05:37   Link #578
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Bessatu Business Political Month Big Comic Spirits Superior FXDXYZ magazines in Japan have mostly wish fulfillment "politics" that cater to salaryman or "basement politicians". Magi's Balbadd arc is probably more "real" than those pretentious crap. Balbadd already showed us that the situation doesn't always get resolved easily, or neatly which give the manga are more realistic edge.
Ahahaha, I agree with you on that.

Quote:
There is nothing wrong with getting a realistic settlement AND pwning the bad guy. Though I still think Chancellor has not went full on EVLUL yet.
I think he has done more than enough to earn more than a slap on the hand.

Quote:
Plus some realism will make this the next FMA, you know. Instead of the next....Bleach (a series where the solution is to punch the next guy).
It's ironic that you brought that up, you know how the final antagonist "Father" was resolved?
A good, well deserved, punch in his face, delivered by our loving protagonist!

You know how the main political antagonist, The Fuhrer was resolved?
STABBY STABBY, kill that mofo!
I mean, it invovled various characters from various factions, all pitching in fists/swords/guns/alchemy to kill that glorious mofo.
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Old 2012-11-14, 05:45   Link #579
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You know how the main political antagonist, The Fuhrer was resolved?
STABBY STABBY, kill that mofo!
I am more thinking about the resolution for people like "serial killer" Scar, "Class A war criminals" like Colonel Mustang or Dr Marco...or the final attempt to "storm the enemy castle" while still winning the "war of perception" on the ground...or the solution to the "Ishvalan problem". In my opinion, such realism is one of FMA's greatest strengths.

Yes, the final enemy in FMA is resolved by beating the shit out of the enemy. However, that enemy is a non-negotiable genocidal maniac, which is quite different from the other foes. Additionally, since he is a genocidal maniac, it really is not hard to get everyone who is sane to ally against him (Even the mad war-loving sociopath alchemist on their side in the end, at least in spirit).

I still don't think Morganett is at that level...yet, not to mention that he has massive magician backing and a genuine desire for the betterment of Magicians. While he sees the Goi as animals, he isn't out to kill em all. Not-genocidal maniac there.
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Old 2012-11-14, 05:54   Link #580
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I am more thinking about the resolution for people like "serial killer" Scar, "Class A war criminals" like Colonel Mustang or Dr Marco...or the final attempt to "storm the enemy castle" while still winning the "war of perception" on the ground...or the solution to the "Ishvalan problem". In my opinion, such realism is one of FMA's greatest strengths.

Yes, the final enemy in FMA is resolved by beating the shit out of the enemy. However, that enemy is a non-negotiable genocidal maniac, which is quite different from the other foes that drive most of FMA's arcs. Additionally, since he is a genocidal maniac, it really is not hard to get everyone who is sane to ally against him (Even the mad war-loving sociopath alchemist on their side in the end, at least in spirit).

I still don't think Morganett is at that level...yet, not to mention that he has massive magician backing and a genuine desire for the betterment of Magicians. While he sees the Goi as animals, he isn't out to kill em all. Not genocidal maniac there.
Mogamett isn't Scar. He's closer to the Fuhrer King Bradley at this point.
And Mustang is obviously Sindbad, with tons of parallels.

And like I said, Wrath was taken down by force.

My shounen logic? Treat kids like pests, kick a crying pleading child in the face, and you deserve to get punched. Prefabably more than once.
I cannot believe you can't see that... or have you not read the newest chapter?
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