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Old 2012-11-13, 07:19   Link #2181
rantaid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertaker View Post
But I don't think it'll be necessary though there are enough going on as is. Though the involvement of Himiko and Zenki could change thing considering that Zenki is Abe no Seimei.

Toward the end of the V8 Sagara is having a conference with Hanbei and Kanbei(Simon) discussing how to prevent certain events from happening and right now Honnoji and Shikanosuke's death seems to be the top priority.
Well i think we can trust the author. with the exception of the quirky boring tsundere and dojikka play by both Monkey and Nobuna filling this LN, the author paved the plot almost pleasantly. so i think there is possibility of hinting Heike no Monogatari, because... if he manage to portray Asakura Yoshikage as a class 1 Genji Monogatari Otaku (if this were compared to modern time, this Yoshikage is no different with an overzealous harem anime otaku who loves to stalk and threaten the seiyu...), then why not? Am I right?

Himiko herself is the legendary semi mythological shaman leader of Yayoi-Jomon period of Japan. i don't recall there is someone with similar name and position. There is a position of Tenno Heika but not Empress Himiko (Is she meant to be Amaterasu?).

While about Abeno Seimei perhaps the author meant to craft an expy for Takenaka Shigeharu as Zhuge Liang Kongming. I'm sure you recall that Kongming in ROTK is depicted as Strategist with Daoist affinity. he did play God against Zhongda during the Northern Expedition. Perhaps the author want to place Abeno Seimei as Li Er (Lao Zi) or Kong Qiu (Confucius) .

Abeno Seimei is a renowned Shaman during Heian period (prior to Kamakura should be). and he always depicted as capable in Onmyouji, summoning a famed Shikigami Zenki and Gouki.

So.. in the V8, there is already the prophecy for the death of Yamanaka Shikanosuke ( I can barely read the LN) ? I see... it is really cruel story, i did like her when i read Taiko. But.. never expected it is already this near.... but hey... if i recall, the VN vol 8 and 9 mention that Mori Motonari still exist. perhaps he is the key? because in Taiko he is already died, succeeded by Mori Terumoto. and what really annoy me there is still no depiction of Mori Terumoto in the LN, only the twins Kikkawa and Kobayakawa. I hope this Mori Teru will be as cute as Sengoku Rance's (which i feel have the resemblance with Remilia and Sakuya in one body)

Oh right, perhaps The Monkey will try to figure out to hasten the suicide of Shimizu Muneharu to prevent Yamanaka Shikanosuke's death? because the Twins Kikkawa and Kobayakawa are too cute to die, they will be additiona l harem for Monkey during Sekigahara

The author made many changes for the death, so i hope i am not wrong that Mori Motonari will still alive for long, because after the Death of Saito Dousan, i kind of lazy to read any Sengoku Jidai material, he is the only interesting character... Similar with Luu Buwei, but has the intuition of Ying Zheng.

Also, if the author added Bontenmaru just because she is popular character though she should only introduced during Battle of Sekigahara but killed Mori Motonari without good reason... then... i am afraid my expectation for this LN is too high. I just can not understand what is the appeal of Masamune Date and Yukimura Sanada during the time line where they should not exist (and Yukimura Sanada is fictional character). I mean is Yamamoto Kansuke, Baba Nobuharu and Yamagata Masakage is not good for Shingen? c'mon author! you raised my expectation when in anime the Monkey mentioned his/her name, don't kill my expectation so easily!

PS; The Monkey's name, Sagara Yoshiharu ... wiki said it is the name of minor daimyo during the Sengoku Jidai, but... this 'Yoshiharu'... Is this a combination from part of both Takenaka Shigeharu and Kuroda Yoshitaka's name? i mean... did not Hashiba Hideyoshi's name himself is a combination of Nobunaga's favored retainer Niwa Nagahide and Shibata Katsuie? perhaps it is a mere coincidence.
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Last edited by rantaid; 2012-11-13 at 07:27. Reason: trivial matter
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Old 2012-11-13, 13:09   Link #2182
Om Nerabdator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rantaid View Post
Well i think we can trust the author. with the exception of the quirky boring tsundere and dojikka play by both Monkey and Nobuna filling this LN, the author paved the plot almost pleasantly. so i think there is possibility of hinting Heike no Monogatari, because... if he manage to portray Asakura Yoshikage as a class 1 Genji Monogatari Otaku (if this were compared to modern time, this Yoshikage is no different with an overzealous harem anime otaku who loves to stalk and threaten the seiyu...), then why not? Am I right?

Himiko herself is the legendary semi mythological shaman leader of Yayoi-Jomon period of Japan. i don't recall there is someone with similar name and position. There is a position of Tenno Heika but not Empress Himiko (Is she meant to be Amaterasu?).

While about Abeno Seimei perhaps the author meant to craft an expy for Takenaka Shigeharu as Zhuge Liang Kongming. I'm sure you recall that Kongming in ROTK is depicted as Strategist with Daoist affinity. he did play God against Zhongda during the Northern Expedition. Perhaps the author want to place Abeno Seimei as Li Er (Lao Zi) or Kong Qiu (Confucius) .

Abeno Seimei is a renowned Shaman during Heian period (prior to Kamakura should be). and he always depicted as capable in Onmyouji, summoning a famed Shikigami Zenki and Gouki.

So.. in the V8, there is already the prophecy for the death of Yamanaka Shikanosuke ( I can barely read the LN) ? I see... it is really cruel story, i did like her when i read Taiko. But.. never expected it is already this near.... but hey... if i recall, the VN vol 8 and 9 mention that Mori Motonari still exist. perhaps he is the key? because in Taiko he is already died, succeeded by Mori Terumoto. and what really annoy me there is still no depiction of Mori Terumoto in the LN, only the twins Kikkawa and Kobayakawa. I hope this Mori Teru will be as cute as Sengoku Rance's (which i feel have the resemblance with Remilia and Sakuya in one body)

Oh right, perhaps The Monkey will try to figure out to hasten the suicide of Shimizu Muneharu to prevent Yamanaka Shikanosuke's death? because the Twins Kikkawa and Kobayakawa are too cute to die, they will be additiona l harem for Monkey during Sekigahara

The author made many changes for the death, so i hope i am not wrong that Mori Motonari will still alive for long, because after the Death of Saito Dousan, i kind of lazy to read any Sengoku Jidai material, he is the only interesting character... Similar with Luu Buwei, but has the intuition of Ying Zheng.

Also, if the author added Bontenmaru just because she is popular character though she should only introduced during Battle of Sekigahara but killed Mori Motonari without good reason... then... i am afraid my expectation for this LN is too high. I just can not understand what is the appeal of Masamune Date and Yukimura Sanada during the time line where they should not exist (and Yukimura Sanada is fictional character). I mean is Yamamoto Kansuke, Baba Nobuharu and Yamagata Masakage is not good for Shingen? c'mon author! you raised my expectation when in anime the Monkey mentioned his/her name, don't kill my expectation so easily!

PS; The Monkey's name, Sagara Yoshiharu ... wiki said it is the name of minor daimyo during the Sengoku Jidai, but... this 'Yoshiharu'... Is this a combination from part of both Takenaka Shigeharu and Kuroda Yoshitaka's name? i mean... did not Hashiba Hideyoshi's name himself is a combination of Nobunaga's favored retainer Niwa Nagahide and Shibata Katsuie? perhaps it is a mere coincidence.
..................after reading that post i can really see why you post all those facts in, especially when you relate it to the LN like that. So i take back all my negative comments i made before and apologize for my remarks.

I have one question , when does saru relize that juubei is akechi mitsuhide? its been a while since ive seen the anime and i cant remember any special scenes with saru worrying about her eventual betrayal
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Old 2012-11-13, 17:20   Link #2183
Undertaker
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That goes to the Japanese name system at time. Sagara knew Juubei is Mitsuhide from the beginning. The LN never hides it.

At time unless you are at least of samurai class you don't have a family/clan name. So Hideyoshi claims to be Kinoshita Tokichiro when he ask to be in service of Nobunaga when there is not evidence to suggest otherwise. Which is why Nobunaga later lets him pick his own name and Tokichiro settles with Hashiba Hideyoshi by combine the name of Niwa Nagahide and Shibata Katsuie.

Most of those with privilege usually have a childhood name that they use until coming of age. Inuchiyo is one of those. Once they were done with their coming of age ceremony they goes by with their official name, in this case Maeda Toshiie. Though people who are close to him might still refer him as Inuchiyo. In addition, they will also add there title (government or hereditary as their middle name) So in official writing, it's Maeda Matazaemon Toshiie and people might also call him Matazaemon as respect.

In this case Juubei is the alleged childhood or hereditary name for Mitsuhide. I said alleged because there is no record of Mitsuhide's childhood nor his young adult life other than he is a Satou retainer and potentially the cousin of Nohime.

He is the only Oda retainers that was known to use Juubei as his unofficial name.



@rantaid

Well Himiko is obviously a reference to that legendary Himiko that was supposed to be around during the Three Kingdom's time of Chinese history. But unlike Zenki, her connection is still not confirmed.

The kanji they use were different. The historical Himiko is 卑弥呼 but the novel uses 姬巫女 which would translated as Maiden Miko(Witch). A role historical Himiko is alleged to be as well. But again the connection there is still unconfirmed.

Yeah in V8, Zenki was eavesdropping over the conference. He then noted that Sagara is too greedy and with the event that is coming up (I took it as Honnoji, but it's anyone's guess), he'll need to be the bad guy once to teach Sagara a lesson that not everything can be prevented. Which I took it as that he will try to interfered with Sagara's attempt to save Shikanosuke's life. (or Hanbei's with her keep using up her life force.)

But basically Sagara told Hanbei and Kanbei that he now understood his mistake. At first he thought that the historical events were like a book, (he uses Heike Monogatari, interestingly) that if one event was stopped it'll alter or prevent subsequent event from happening.

But now he realizes that it's actually more like the games. Time and prior events aren't necessary the criteria. As long as all the elements are present, the event will be triggered somehow to reach a similar result. So the point is to find out those criteria and stop those instead.

Shikanosuke was mentioned because her related events had already happened and they are out of time. Sagara identified three events for her, her moonlight vow, the destruction of Amako Clanhad both already happened. The one left is her death at the hands of Mori and with the other two events already occurred, the stage is set for Shikanosuke's death event unless he can prevent the necessary elements that triggers the event.

While Honnoji, he needs to find out who will end up be the traitor.

While that is kind of obvious for us readers that it might happen because of Juubei's jealousy toward Nobuna over Sagara. In LN, all Sagara knew is that Juubei look at him as rival and fiercely royal and respectful to Nobuna and right now he seem to rule her out thinking it might be others who will replace Juubei's role in Honnoji.
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Old 2012-11-13, 18:59   Link #2184
justpassingby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertaker View Post
While that is kind of obvious for us readers that it might happen because of Juubei's jealousy toward Nobuna over Sagara. In LN, all Sagara knew is that Juubei look at him as rival and fiercely royal and respectful to Nobuna and right now he seem to rule her out thinking it might be others who will replace Juubei's role in Honnoji.
In vol 9, when Juubei heard about Matsunaga's rebellion, she was in a hurry to go back to help Nobuna. The author described the weakness to Juubei's blind loyalty to Nobuna was Saru . Juubei's retainers said that the subjugation of Tanba was almost complete, and if she goes back, the last castle (Yagami Castle) would become harder to get. One of her vassals even suggested that Nobuna didn't need Juubei's help as no one could kill Nobuna, and if there is one, that would be Juubei. Juubei became angry and scolded them for being greedy for achievements. vol 9 p242

Juubei started to recollect previous events such as Kiyomizu Temple when Nobuna came to save her, and when Juubei and Nobuna went to avenge Saru's 'death', in vol 7. She remembered that Nobuna said to her that Nobuna was blessed with many retainers, but the one that inherited Dousan and Nobuna's dream was Juubei. Mikage added that Juubei is 'another' Nobuna, and that both of the girls are seeing the same dream. When Nobuna dies, so will Juubei's life. The distance of their souls is so close that they fell in love with the same guy.
Juubei is yet to realize her feelings toward Saru, and Nobuna's feeling toward the same man. If she knew, she would probably do something that can not be taken back. p246-247

Well, I hope Juubei will sacrifice herself for Saru and Nobuna's sake, and that Saru will finally remember what Juubei has done for him back at the cave, and not some misunderstanding. Yoshiharu is so concentrated in saving Nobuna, that I wished someone would come from another parallel/future Earth to save Juubei. Maybe Sakamoto Ryoma? But can someone falls in love with his own ancestor?

What I fear is that Juubei is doing the exact same thing to what was recorded when she subjugated Tanba by using diplomacy. The probability for her mother to die just keep going up, huh?

In other news, I loled at Dean when he asked Garth if the bar they went to eat sang "War is Over" in last week episode of Supernatural.
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一生 忘れられないよ ずっとずっと 大事な贈り物
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Last edited by justpassingby; 2012-11-14 at 06:27. Reason: they -> he
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Old 2012-11-13, 19:07   Link #2185
rantaid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Om Nerabdator
..................after reading that post i can really see why you post all those facts in, especially when you relate it to the LN like that. So i take back all my negative comments i made before and apologize for my remarks.

I have one question , when does saru relize that juubei is akechi mitsuhide? its been a while since ive seen the anime and i cant remember any special scenes with saru worrying about her eventual betrayal
That's okay, this is because you have not understand the beauty of this LN, which make you impatient. find small detail from the novel and you will clasp your hand and mutter how ingenious the author is (though Oda Nobuna no Yabou is still way.... too unimpressive compared to Chen Mou's Ravages of Time. This is a crazily detailed manga i have ever read!) If you also watch Koihime Musou anime, you will think of it first as stupid flick yuri anime, but try to find a small details which will make you laugh. like;

Shuri reciting the first chapter of Confucius's Analects when she firstly introduced in anime, while in VN under the tree, she reads Spring Autumn Annals of Luu Buwei.
Sei (Zilong) mentioned about Wo Xing Shang Tan in first season anime ep. 4 when the groups eat ramen and menma.
The Terracota Army were build by Magician named Xu Fu
The mention of First Emperor of China (Qin Shihuang Di); though i hate how they depict him as falling to suspicion of all his own retainers.
Lu Meng learn Sun Zi's Art of War from Zhongmou, a simplified version of Three Days Change All for Little Meng-chan .


Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertaker
That goes to the Japanese name system at time. Sagara knew Juubei is Mitsuhide from the beginning. The LN never hides it.

At time unless you are at least of samurai class you don't have a family/clan name. So Hideyoshi claims to be Kinoshita Tokichiro when he ask to be in service of Nobunaga when there is not evidence to suggest otherwise. Which is why Nobunaga later lets him pick his own name and Tokichiro settles with Hashiba Hideyoshi by combine the name of Niwa Nagahide and Shibata Katsuie.

Most of those with privilege usually have a childhood name that they use until coming of age. Inuchiyo is one of those. Once they were done with their coming of age ceremony they goes by with their official name, in this case Maeda Toshiie. Though people who are close to him might still refer him as Inuchiyo. In addition, they will also add there title (government or hereditary as their middle name) So in official writing, it's Maeda Matazaemon Toshiie and people might also call him Matazaemon as respect.

In this case Juubei is the alleged childhood or hereditary name for Mitsuhide. I said alleged because there is no record of Mitsuhide's childhood nor his young adult life other than he is a Satou retainer and potentially the cousin of Nohime.

He is the only Oda retainers that was known to use Juubei as his unofficial name.



@rantaid

Well Himiko is obviously a reference to that legendary Himiko that was supposed to be around during the Three Kingdom's time of Chinese history. But unlike Zenki, her connection is still not confirmed.

The kanji they use were different. The historical Himiko is 卑弥呼 but the novel uses 姬巫女 which would translated as Maiden Miko(Witch). A role historical Himiko is alleged to be as well. But again the connection there is still unconfirmed.

Yeah in V8, Zenki was eavesdropping over the conference. He then noted that Sagara is too greedy and with the event that is coming up (I took it as Honnoji, but it's anyone's guess), he'll need to be the bad guy once to teach Sagara a lesson that not everything can be prevented. Which I took it as that he will try to interfered with Sagara's attempt to save Shikanosuke's life. (or Hanbei's with her keep using up her life force.)

But basically Sagara told Hanbei and Kanbei that he now understood his mistake. At first he thought that the historical events were like a book, (he uses Heike Monogatari, interestingly) that if one event was stopped it'll alter or prevent subsequent event from happening.

But now he realizes that it's actually more like the games. Time and prior events aren't necessary the criteria. As long as all the elements are present, the event will be triggered somehow to reach a similar result. So the point is to find out those criteria and stop those instead.

Shikanosuke was mentioned because her related events had already happened and they are out of time. Sagara identified three events for her, her moonlight vow, the destruction of Amako Clanhad both already happened. The one left is her death at the hands of Mori and with the other two events already occurred, the stage is set for Shikanosuke's death event unless he can prevent the necessary elements that triggers the event.

While Honnoji, he needs to find out who will end up be the traitor.

While that is kind of obvious for us readers that it might happen because of Juubei's jealousy toward Nobuna over Sagara. In LN, all Sagara knew is that Juubei look at him as rival and fiercely royal and respectful to Nobuna and right now he seem to rule her out thinking it might be others who will replace Juubei's role in Honnoji.

this also goes for Om Nerabdator;

Well this is the result of Genpuku, a rite of adulthood, which made all male japanese of that time have numerous name. (well, perhaps Yoshiharu is just a coincidence)

Even in anime, it is already evident that the Monkey worried when Honnouji event will be unveiled. I mean who want to kill a cute girl like Juubei-chan? it is blasphemy not to save her as your own harem! she is a cute subject for Netorare.... sorry, i mean one of your harem of Tsundere type B (B, right?); did not her scene when she is worried for Monkey's safety is kind of cute, shoving the talisman without showing her expression, ticking the monkey to play avoid her to see her reaction? as a fellow harem lead enthusiast who is true pervert (at same level of Keichi Maebara from Higurashi, the protagonist of Sora Otoshimono, Rance and Ryo Saeba) no matter how evil she should turn out be, as long as she is cute, there is still a way to change this fact. the Monkey is kind of attracted to her (shown explicitly in anime), and why should not he save her? i mean she is not Sachi from SAO, right?

Basically, the Monkey already know the flow of historical fact but he kept them to himself to avoid problem, even Nobuna as a 'genius' asked him not to bother her with all of his-know-it-all (spoil her of the future, mentioned in LN) Butterfly effect is really annoying.


hehe.... i remember that the Cao Wei once sent an emissary to Wo Nu. at that time in Yamatai there is a blind shaman named Himiko.

hm... but i never expected the differences of the Himiko in name.

WHAT??? darn it! SO THERE IS A REFERENCE TO HEIKE MONOGATARI!?

if there is such a great material to be quoted, why use the sickening playboy of Harem material like Genji Monogatari?? That annoying Genji is even worse than Itou Makoto ( a very boring character!). Add Taira Kiyomori!

The last should be... Nobuna refusal for sending reinforcement for Amako clan.

I don't want to hate Kikkawa chan. her depiction along with Kobayakawa-chan are kind of interesting.

Ha..Ha! so the Monkey is thinking the obscure factor of Honnouji? then the traitor will be yourself! it is all Hyouge Mono!

But really! I Do like Juubei chan, so i hope it is Indeed her who brought the Honnouji's. as justpassingby once mentioned.... Ah... Mitsuhide, won't you follow my path... this will be utmost pleasant and emotional event! I don't care how this turn out but not another character, please... ... and don't use simple jealousy as background... it must because of hatred, love that turned to hatred.


Hm... this is a really funny interpretation of placing Akechi at the same level of Nobuna, justpassingby, but i feel elated. can not wait for Honnouji.
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Last edited by rantaid; 2012-11-13 at 19:11. Reason: just realized some words from justpassingby
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Old 2012-11-13, 19:16   Link #2186
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@justpassingby


Yeah, they all say that love and hate is the two sides of same coin. Juubei has already shown some hint of yandere personality in her and has yet to realize Nobuna and her own feeling.

It's not hard to see her to fulfill her role as in Honnoji once the reality hits her and destroys her little fantasy...

Though I hope that's won't be the case.
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Old 2012-11-13, 19:20   Link #2187
rantaid
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and the aftermath of Honnouji will forever break my beloved Juubei chan, regardless of she still lives or dead.

because she is my favorite character... Ah... i feel like reading Ravages in guessing all this stuff.
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Old 2012-11-14, 05:00   Link #2188
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real treat?

well p want more character development

Last edited by redsnigami; 2012-11-14 at 05:06. Reason: change phrase
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Old 2012-11-14, 07:08   Link #2189
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I can see that Juubie will rebel because she will think that Nobuna used and make out of her as a fool all the while knowing that she is in love with Saru. Furthermore it will seem like when Nobuna has already no used for her she will just discard her just like in the later novels where she is not being sent out to her side instead she is being stationed in some far away location.
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Old 2012-11-14, 08:24   Link #2190
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We still haven't figured out who was the one that sent Saru to this world. Does Saru have a lineage related to this era? (maybe a descendant of of the Oda clan)

Last edited by churchblue; 2012-11-19 at 12:01.
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Old 2012-11-30, 00:41   Link #2191
rantaid
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Originally Posted by churchblue View Post
We still haven't figured out who was the one that sent Saru to this world. Does Saru have a lineage
related to thi era? (maybe a descendant of of the Oda clan)
The only recognized one by the author is minor daimyou by the name Sagara Yoshiharu.


oh... i read the latest translation of Oda Nobuna LN v.02. Thank you very much translator who goes by the name Tarmade
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Last edited by rantaid; 2012-12-27 at 02:37. Reason: well... duh.
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Old 2012-12-02, 21:06   Link #2192
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That still doesn't answer my question.
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Old 2012-12-26, 21:44   Link #2193
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Been quite a while since anyone have posted something here. Oda Nobuna no Yabou has most of 2 volumes already finished and vol 3 got started. The project now has 3 translators. The story thus far is much more slow pace and more natural than the anime, it is really quite enjoyable.
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Old 2013-02-01, 16:17   Link #2194
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hello everyone i am new here just started to read the light novel
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Old 2013-02-01, 16:26   Link #2195
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Well welcome to the forum and thread, as you can see not many discussions have been going on so yeah... :| dont know what to say.
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Old 2013-02-01, 16:35   Link #2196
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hello everyone i am new here just started to read the light novel
Welcome, glad you are here. The Novel translation been very good to read, but none are fully completes though 3 are mostly completed. Feel free to ask a question or post a topic so people can discuss.
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Old 2013-02-01, 16:58   Link #2197
pilgrim23
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um is there something wrong with the social group because i put in join request a while ago and it hasnít done anything but when i joined the highschool dxd group it accepted me instantly
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Old 2013-02-01, 17:01   Link #2198
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um is there something wrong with the social group because i put in join request a while ago and it hasnít done anything but when highschool dxd it accepted me instantly
Yeah,........that issue been there for a while. Sleepy haven't fix that unfortunately and I can't do anything about it. The spoilers summaries for vol 1 to 5 are there already, as well all the Novel illustration from vol 1 to 9 are there too so its the best interest to join. Unfortunately I cannot contact Sleepy for you, his message box is also mess up for some reason.
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Old 2013-02-01, 17:06   Link #2199
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oh well just have to wait and see i guess
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Old 2013-02-04, 06:50   Link #2200
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Can anyone provide summaries for vol 6 to 9?
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