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Old 2012-11-14, 00:24   Link #441
monster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post


That is the objective of every operating systems; to provide an abstraction layer for the hardware for programmers to build applications... OK, with the popularization of computers adds a GUI for simple tasks... nonetheless the prevalence of MS-Windows, probably misleads a lot of users, so we have to rely to higher level and cross-OS abstraction these days like web-apps, java, OpenGL, etc

In a perfect world, that would be clear, and easy to do, but marketing (not necessarily profit) takes precedence over the service advertised.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
why *can't* a user who, say, already has several apps open and wants to see them while launching an app - can't?
The Start screen is not there just to launch apps. It is also a place for showing live tiles and search results for apps, settings, and files. Finally, it is designed to also work with touch. To be able to do all of that, it needs to be bigger than the Start menu.

Now, why is it always full screen, even on large displays?

My guess would be because the Start screen, like all Windows Store apps, is built on top of WinRT, which currently lacks certain things, like windowing capabilities.

This is either something that will change as WinRT matures or something that won't if a windowing capability simply does not fit the design philosophy they are going for with WinRT.
Quote:
This is a "feature" that makes perfect sense on a 2"x2" screen or even a small tablet. On a wide-screen monitor, not so much. Microsoft just figures the small screen environment is where the money is - I guess.
They probably figure that the displeasure that comes from people who want to see their running apps in the few seconds it takes them to launch another app won't be as great as the displeasure that would come from people who interact with the Start screen on a tablet if it did not provide a touch-first experience.
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Old 2012-11-14, 01:31   Link #442
npal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
This response I've seen quite a number of times now. It really isn't responsive to what the consumer *wants* and the question is why *can't* a user who, say, already has several apps open and wants to see them while launching an app - can't?

This is a "feature" that makes perfect sense on a 2"x2" screen or even a small tablet. On a wide-screen monitor, not so much. Microsoft just figures the small screen environment is where the money is - I guess.
Well, you'd have to ask Apple the same question. If Microsoft aims for tablet share, tablet multitasking just isn't there. Should it be? At that screen size, probably not. Should everything follow tablet mentality? God no, and that's the problem with Microsoft. Apple didn't cripple MacOS to make it look as "cute" as their iOS. Apparently, Microsoft thinks it's ok.
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Old 2012-11-14, 01:48   Link #443
Vexx
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Aye, there's simply no reason the UI can't be modular/swappable. The most appropriate UI for the hardware. Branding should be in style, fonts, icons, shapes, etc.
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Old 2012-11-14, 02:07   Link #444
monster
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Aye, there's simply no reason the UI can't be modular/swappable.
There is if they want the same app to run on both the tablets and the more traditional PC form factors.
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Old 2012-11-14, 03:45   Link #445
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Um, an app shouldn't be restricted by the UI - that's pretty entangled programming.
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Old 2012-11-14, 05:14   Link #446
monster
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Um, an app shouldn't be restricted by the UI - that's pretty entangled programming.
Sorry, I didn't mean it in the technical sense. Microsoft wants people to get used to the idea of the Start screen, whether they are on a touch device or not, because it plays an important role as part of the new Windows Store app experience.
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Old 2012-11-14, 05:32   Link #447
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I guess some of you guys dont understand what i mean by multitasking. basically everytime i want to open a app that is not on my desktop. i have to open fullscreen start screen. this is kinda annoying when you currently do something in back ground like watching video

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster View Post
Sorry, I didn't mean it in the technical sense. Microsoft wants people to get used to the idea of the Start screen, whether they are on a touch device or not, because it plays an important role as part of the new Windows Store app experience.
which is the problem. no matter how good the response and speed of the startscreen. the UI just doesn't work on desktop
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Old 2012-11-14, 05:40   Link #448
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Originally Posted by RRW View Post
the UI just doesn't work on desktop
I guess that would depend on the user.
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Old 2012-11-14, 08:53   Link #449
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Originally Posted by RRW View Post
I guess some of you guys dont understand what i mean by multitasking. basically everytime i want to open a app that is not on my desktop. i have to open fullscreen start screen. this is kinda annoying when you currently do something in back ground like watching video



which is the problem. no matter how good the response and speed of the startscreen. the UI just doesn't work on desktop
You can watch a video while searching in Start Menu for another application? You must be a genius.
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Old 2012-11-14, 10:44   Link #450
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Pretty much, everyone who says that they can't multitask on the start screen are just pretty much nitpicking at this point. are people really telling me that they focus on the other things that's happening in the desktop while they're using the start Menu? Hello? your current task is to find an application on the start menu, not wallow and look at the desktop. Sorry, but I don't see people who use GNOME-Shell complain about the full screen launchers or the similar concept of moving the pointer to a hotspot, it comes out as hypocrisy really.
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Old 2012-11-14, 10:51   Link #451
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Originally Posted by npal View Post
You can watch a video while searching in Start Menu for another application? You must be a genius.
?

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Old 2012-11-14, 12:10   Link #452
npal
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Originally Posted by RRW View Post
?

It's not a matter of optical perception. It's a matter of necessary mental focus and understanding of what it is you perceive. I can open 6 videos and put them in cascade while talking on the phone, that doesn't mean I am actively WATCHING them or even that I had the ability to watch them in the first place. Searching in Start menu is mainly an audiovisual task (yes it's audio, too, you read words, you cannot but pronounce them in your head), watching a video is a different audiovisual task (unless you have it on mute). Unless you have the brain of a genius or are an idiot savant, you cannot pay full attention to different tasks of the same type going on at the same time, you are bound to start losing relevant information when your focus shifts from one task to the other. Sure the video just MIGHT draw your attention away from the menu search if a stimulus manages to trigger your attention back, but just for the record, a brain's immediate processing ability is rather limited.

But just in case, the time it took you shifting to your start menu task isn't really that different from the time it took you to open the Start screen and type. The only thing you can't do with the Start Screen as opposed to the Start menu is leave the screen EXACTLY like the screenshot (ie have it ready but not use the application and go back to watching the video). Then again, why would anyone want to do that?
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Old 2012-11-14, 13:05   Link #453
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You can say whatever you want in theory. but in practice I have no problem watching video while searching for another application using start menu. it certainly less distractive than using start screen
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Old 2012-11-14, 14:06   Link #454
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Quote:
You can say whatever you want in theory. but in practice I have no problem watching video while searching for another application using start menu. it certainly less distractive than using start screen
So you're blaming the startscreen if you yourself lose focus? Like I said, the startscreen isn't the only thing in an OS that has this problem: GNOME-Shell has this problem, Ubuntu's dash has that problem...
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Old 2012-11-14, 14:32   Link #455
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Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
So you're blaming the startscreen if you yourself lose focus?
If you mean I losing focus because my (full)screen change from video to startscreen when I doing my search then yes. it certainly more annoying compare to startmenu where i can watch video and search at same time.

well arguably this is just minor annoyance to me. but big enough for me to put it as cons of Win8.
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Old 2012-11-14, 15:59   Link #456
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeriolewinters View Post
So you're blaming the startscreen if you yourself lose focus? Like I said, the startscreen isn't the only thing in an OS that has this problem: GNOME-Shell has this problem, Ubuntu's dash has that problem...
Yes, and they're problems. People who work for a living on their computers are finding this UI intrusive. Consumers may be happy as mudlarks. Having worked professionally with Microsoft since the late 80s I still find their "one size forced on all" mindset almost idiotic. Its lazy marketeering over providing choices.
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Old 2012-11-21, 15:48   Link #457
AnimeFan188
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Microsoft hands Windows 8 Pro to pirates by mistake:

"For what is presumably a limited period, it's possible to just download Windows 8
keys directly from Microsoft -- keys that activate the Pro version of Microsoft's
brand new OS."

See:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-575...es-by-mistake/
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Old 2012-11-22, 18:03   Link #458
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Aren't they likely to ban those keys or something? At least in terms of being able to get updates (not that it was ever hard to trick windows update...).
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Old 2012-11-22, 18:56   Link #459
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If they ban them, they could just go back to the crack.

Also, MS gives pirate copies updates.
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Old 2012-11-22, 19:52   Link #460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random32 View Post
If they ban them, they could just go back to the crack.

Also, MS gives pirate copies updates.
Which makes total sense since their profit comes from PC vendors including the preinstalled OS, not the individual sales of the software.

Plus their OS is a prerequisite for most of their SaS as well as their Office-suite.
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