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Old 2012-11-15, 06:56   Link #1581
The Small One
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I'm a bit confused about the location of the King's palace.
So the walls that surround seireitai were originally around the palace. We know they fell from above. And the zero squad, which is guarding the king, travelled by falling inside of a giant pillar… from above.
So basically this means, that the King's palace is hovering somewhere above Seireitai.
But wasn't it supposed to be a completely different dimension, which is only accessible with a special key. What was the purpose of the whole war with Aizen anyways?
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Old 2012-11-15, 07:08   Link #1582
Eragon
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What was the purpose of the whole war with Aizen anyways?
To troll Hitsugaya and Ichigo
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Old 2012-11-15, 07:10   Link #1583
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Originally Posted by WONDERMIKE View Post
The whole Hikifune story is a bit odd when it comes to powerlevels, because.. just how strong is a single member of the royal guard really? Do they have to be on the Captain Commander's level to get the promotion or "just" above average? Would Kyouraku fit the requirements for promotion then?

I guess I have problems with the idea of a Captain being on Yamamoto's level while serving under him. It's a bit hard to imagine.
They wouldn't necessarily have to be on the captain commanders level. Just being on par with Aizen's base power seems like it'd be enough to make the 5 members > Gotei 13 statement true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
So basically this means, that the King's palace is hovering somewhere above Seireitai.
But wasn't it supposed to be a completely different dimension, which is only accessible with a special key. What was the purpose of the whole war with Aizen anyways?
Well assuming this palace is way above SS in an unknown location, it could still make sense that a key would be needed to gain direct access. Though I don't really know what to make of the whole palace being in its own dimension part of it.
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Old 2012-11-15, 09:42   Link #1584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
What was the purpose of the whole war with Aizen anyways?
Aizen was to create a replica of the King's Key.
He found a method of creating it by amassing lots of spirit particles. Urahara created fake Karakura town and lured Aizen&co. there. Battle ensues. Arc ends


the original King's Key's location, is only known by the Captain Commander
and now, since he's dead. No one will ever know
how sad
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Old 2012-11-15, 10:44   Link #1585
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If Yamamoto was the only one who knew where the King's Key was, and died without nominating a successor (presumably), how did anyone get into the King's Realm in order to summon Squad Zero? Has anyone checked on the state of Karakura recently?
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Old 2012-11-15, 11:11   Link #1586
The Small One
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Originally Posted by Frailty View Post
Aizen was to create a replica of the King's Key.
He found a method of creating it by amassing lots of spirit particles. Urahara created fake Karakura town and lured Aizen&co. there. Battle ensues. Arc ends
My point was: For what did Aizen need this key anyways, if the palace is just hovering somewhere above Seireitai? He should have built a helicopter instead of trying to create a key.
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Old 2012-11-15, 11:31   Link #1587
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Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
My point was: For what did Aizen need this key anyways, if the palace is just hovering somewhere above Seireitai? He should have built a helicopter instead of trying to create a key.
Or taken Yoruichi's flying thingy off Ichigo when he was at the Soukyoku/staring off against Byakuya by the prison
Why didn't they just drop the pillar of awesome on Aizen when he was standing around? Even he couldn't survive that, and they (apart perhaps from Hikifune) have never seen his shikai if he got back up to try to steal their return journey to the King's Realm
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Old 2012-11-15, 14:20   Link #1588
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Originally Posted by dragonmeister View Post
If Yamamoto was the only one who knew where the King's Key was, and died without nominating a successor (presumably), how did anyone get into the King's Realm in order to summon Squad Zero? Has anyone checked on the state of Karakura recently?
The only successor to take Yamamotos spot is Hitsugaya but he has a long way to go before he gets there.
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Old 2012-11-15, 14:46   Link #1589
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WONDERMIKE View Post
The whole Hikifune story is a bit odd when it comes to powerlevels, because.. just how strong is a single member of the royal guard really? Do they have to be on the Captain Commander's level to get the promotion or "just" above average? Would Kyouraku fit the requirements for promotion then?

I guess I have problems with the idea of a Captain being on Yamamoto's level while serving under him. It's a bit hard to imagine.

Back then when we first heard of Hikifune's promotion my first feeling was: that's just a made up story to cover that she was put to jail in the maggot's nest or something.
I'll be honest I think Hikifune power level is like seeing a little above Kyoraku, Ukitake and Unohana then I imagine that these three have the potential to be in division 0 Unohana being a doctor but they probably thought he would better leave in his division captains Kyoraku and Ukitake then to be, I say "maybe" they had a proposal for integrated division 0 but refused because wanting stayed near yamamoto as captain of Gotei 13 Hikifune then turn has accept ...
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Old 2012-11-15, 15:04   Link #1590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WONDERMIKE View Post
The whole Hikifune story is a bit odd when it comes to powerlevels, because.. just how strong is a single member of the royal guard really? Do they have to be on the Captain Commander's level to get the promotion or "just" above average? Would Kyouraku fit the requirements for promotion then?

I guess I have problems with the idea of a Captain being on Yamamoto's level while serving under him. It's a bit hard to imagine.

Back then when we first heard of Hikifune's promotion my first feeling was: that's just a made up story to cover that she was put to jail in the maggot's nest or something.
This is just a guesstimate, but it could possibly be explained if Captain-level shinigami have power limits placed on them when they are within the realm of SS. I believe it was mentioned during the first SS arc that it's against the rules for Captain-class shinigami to release their bankai in SS unless it is to protect against a direct threat. It wouldn't be such a giant leap in logic then to imagine that once a shinigami is promoted to Squad 0 and brought to the king's court, that limit on their power is removed, hence explaining their ability to have huge power levels while having still served at one time under Yamamoto.
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Old 2012-11-15, 18:01   Link #1591
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Probably not worth it to make too much sense of power levels, but if I had to take a guess, Kyouraku would be about 60% of Yamamoto's strength and the Royal Guard around 90% each. I don't think any of the RG is stronger than him individually. That's not taking into account hax sword abilities and all that. Yamamoto could take out the entire Gotei 13 with his abilities. 5 near-Yamamoto level Shinigami still seems overkill for Bach, except for the fact that he has Yamamoto's bankai. Wouldn't be suprised if his subordinate was stronger though.
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Old 2012-11-15, 19:07   Link #1592
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I don't get why it's hard to believe Yamamoto had a subordinate stronger than himself, especially when you consider that she (if she actually is stronger) was promoted to 0 Squad for her power and wasn't even serving under him after that. It's like saying Naruto can't be stronger than X because X is a jounin and Naruto is a genin.

Considering how easily Yamamoto was manhandled by the real Juha it wouldn't be surprising for these guys to be stronger than him. Wouldn't even be surprised if their shikai are on the same level as Yama's bankai. They don't necessarily have to have the same wide-area destructive power for them to be stronger than him.
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Old 2012-11-15, 20:01   Link #1593
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Originally Posted by Squarecrow View Post
I don't get why it's hard to believe Yamamoto had a subordinate stronger than himself, especially when you consider that she (if she actually is stronger) was promoted to 0 Squad for her power and wasn't even serving under him after that. It's like saying Naruto can't be stronger than X because X is a jounin and Naruto is a genin.

Considering how easily Yamamoto was manhandled by the real Juha it wouldn't be surprising for these guys to be stronger than him. Wouldn't even be surprised if their shikai are on the same level as Yama's bankai. They don't necessarily have to have the same wide-area destructive power for them to be stronger than him.
you are right it is not impossible that there are stronger captain or simply equal force that yamamoto
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Old 2012-11-16, 02:17   Link #1594
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Come to think of it: Since their job is usually to protect the king, their powers should actually be more defensive.
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Old 2012-11-16, 02:32   Link #1595
Chiaki_chan
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Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
Come to think of it: Since their job is usually to protect the king, their powers should actually be more defensive.
yes but do not forget : "The best defense is attack"
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Old 2012-11-16, 09:55   Link #1596
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squarecrow View Post
I don't get why it's hard to believe Yamamoto had a subordinate stronger than himself, especially when you consider that she (if she actually is stronger) was promoted to 0 Squad for her power and wasn't even serving under him after that. It's like saying Naruto can't be stronger than X because X is a jounin and Naruto is a genin.
Yamamoto stated that he was still the Commander because no Shinigami stronger than him had been born in over 1000 years. Assuming she is stronger than him, this would make Hikifune at least 1001 years old, yet her promotion took place around 100 years ago.

As I said it's just hard to picture the Gotei with a Captain near or on par Yamamoto level because the existing Captains are just way off..
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Old 2012-11-16, 10:19   Link #1597
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Originally Posted by WONDERMIKE View Post
Yamamoto stated that he was still the Commander because no Shinigami stronger than him had been born in over 1000 years. Assuming she is stronger than him, this would make Hikifune at least 1001 years old, yet her promotion took place around 100 years ago.

As I said it's just hard to picture the Gotei with a Captain near or on par Yamamoto level because the existing Captains are just way off..
But isn't that what Bach said before he sliced Yamji in two? That the Gotei had become a bunch of clowns(or something along that line).
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Old 2012-11-16, 10:31   Link #1598
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But isn't that what Bach said before he sliced Yamji in two? That the Gotei had become a bunch of clowns(or something along that line).
I think he meant they became too soft because of the peaceful times they enjoyed.

In the end Bach just had a good plan to trick Yamamoto, I can't imagine how a younger wilder and bloodthirstier Yamamoto would not have lost against Bach's trap. It remains to be seen how he will fare against the Zero Squad(although I bet he will be heavily relying on the stolen Bankai) without funny stuff like Doppelgänger.
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Old 2012-11-16, 12:05   Link #1599
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Poor yamato has been trolled so hard by the author. first by aizen now this last ditch attempt at making a menacing villian. we will never see him go full force vs anyone because he gets plot crippled or ends up fighting a meaty kage bunshin.

Hype up secondary characters and then have them fall flat. Zero squad will be no different. Just give ichigo his qunicy power up, kill bach, and finish theseries.
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Old 2012-11-16, 12:12   Link #1600
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by WONDERMIKE View Post
As I said it's just hard to picture the Gotei with a Captain near or on par Yamamoto level because the existing Captains are just way off..
yea but don't forget that shinigami can get stronger. it's not like their power levels are constant. we saw aizen evolve several times and increase in power exponentially (granted that was with genetic tampering) but shunsui also said that toshiro would become more powerful than him in 100 years or so. so the captains' power levels are definitively not constants. its entirely possible that hikufune was a somewhat normal captain in terms of strength (although one of the best for sure), but then underwent some sort of power increase 100 years ago that got her promoted. she could have even surpassed yama-jii, although i doubt that unless the zero squad are all in fact older than 1000 years. or kubo may just ignore ever having said that...

also in terms of power levels, nothing really makes sense no matter how we look at it, since yama-jii in bankai state should have been so powerful that nobody but ichigo, aizen and bach should have been able to even feel his reiatsu... which wasn't the case
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