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View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 20
10 out of 10 : Near Perfect... 46 38.02%
9 out of 10 : Excellent... 38 31.40%
8 out of 10 : Very Good... 24 19.83%
7 out of 10 : Good... 7 5.79%
6 out of 10 : Average... 1 0.83%
5 out of 10 : Below Average... 1 0.83%
4 out of 10 : Poor... 1 0.83%
3 out of 10 : Bad... 1 0.83%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad... 1 0.83%
1 out of 10 : Torturous... 1 0.83%
Voters: 121. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-11-17, 16:54   Link #41
The Green One
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The sword gram cannot use ethereal shift consecutively at that speed, that's why the dual weilding was so effective as it negated the general's ability to pass through Kirito's defenses at will which is what made the initial fight so one sided, and once balance was restored it came down to a contest of pure skill.
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Old 2012-11-17, 17:00   Link #42
styr
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Nice airborne duel, Kirito quickly overwhelmed Eugene once he had the upper hand and didn't let up. Although Eugene's first sword hit to Kirito's face/shoulder looked like it hurt! Reminded me of DBZ when they crash into mountains...
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Old 2012-11-17, 17:14   Link #43
Awrya
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Demonic sword Gram sure has an ugly design

The beginning of Kirito vs Eugene fight was good, but once Kirito started dual wielding, Eugene face was the best part of the episode.

So Asuna wakes up and decides to leave. Would be funny if she escapes to Arun, while Kirito is fighting his way up the world tree.

Do we know how many episodes SAO has, 24 or 26?
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Old 2012-11-17, 17:15   Link #44
TinkyWinky
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This episode show us that if you put the stupid fanservice and the inconsistencies in the scenario, Sword Art Online could be one of the best entertainement of the year. I mean look at this fight scene, it was so awesome! (though I wonder why Kirito can suddenly use two weapons. But hey, it's SAO, we are somehow used to this kind of thing...)
The second part of the episode wasn't really interesting. We know that Kirito is fuckin cool when he's fighting but stay calms girls~

PS: go go Asuna, you get enough sleep for the rest of your life :<
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Old 2012-11-17, 17:20   Link #45
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinkyWinky View Post
This episode show us that if you put the stupid fanservice and the inconsistencies in the scenario, Sword Art Online could be one of the best entertainement of the year. I mean look at this fight scene, it was so awesome! (though I wonder why Kirito can suddenly use two weapons. But hey, it's SAO, we are somehow used to this kind of thing...)
The second part of the episode wasn't really interesting. We know that Kirito is fuckin cool when he's fighting but stay calms girls~

PS: go go Asuna, you get enough sleep for the rest of your life :<
it was explain in the beginning, in ALO, stuff like reaction time and how well you use a weapon is base on your own physical attributes. Also in ALO the system does not prevent players form Dual Wielding, most players don't because most people are proficient with only 1 hand. Ambidextrous people of course can Duel Wield with no problems.

A Rewatch of earlier eps with better translations would probably clear some of the inconsistency people keep complaining about.
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Old 2012-11-17, 17:28   Link #46
Kamui04
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Damn, people arguing still with the dual wield.

Here's my take. First unlike SAO where dual wield has a big benefit combat-wise, since you get a 32-hit combo just by going thru the initial motion of the sword skill. In ALO where there's no system assist and the natural/real skills and abilities of the players reflect on their combat skills. Dual Wielding per say doesn't add any big benefit and may even hinder on the long run since you have more work for barely any benefit at all.

Watching this scene in the anime is fast, action packed and short, but reading the novel one has more time to think the scenario. In this case the "phasing" of Eugene's sword. While reading the first thing that came right into my mind was: "what if that phasing bonus applies to the first block only? of course Kirito might try dual wielding..." And lo and behold the next thing he does is get a second sword.

In the end I think the point with Kirito dual wielding or not. Is that on normal combat in ALO without any system assist, it doesn't provide any benefits and you're putting more effort for the same result. But in the case of Eugene's fight he had the double whammy of being able to block the phasing and the element of surprise providing an opening to attack. Just like other people mentioned, Kirito having an internal monologue and explaining what he was thinking might have helped people understand his decision to dual wield at that moment, but on the other hand it would have interrupted the pace of the fight.

Last edited by Kamui04; 2012-11-17 at 17:42. Reason: fixed some spelling.
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Old 2012-11-17, 17:32   Link #47
lightbringer
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
*snip*
All I can say is, it all makes better sense in the novels. Which sucks for discussion purposes but there you have it.
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Old 2012-11-17, 17:36   Link #48
Klashikari
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And if you read more carefully the complaints, the problem isn't "why Kirito isn't abusing dual wielding" as it is clearly not the same as in SAO, but why he didn't think about trying that, considering his personality and all.

Really, the reason why Dual Wield is more effective against Eugene is no brainer due to gram, but that's not the problem here. The initial problem was why Kirito didn't bother having a back up weapon to test it out, since he could have all the gear he can buy back in the sylph capital and neutral city, considering the hefty amount of cash he has. Unlike in SAO, Kazuto wasn't shown testing ALO because he has no time for that, yet he still can use his experience from SAO.
That's why relying only on a single sword instead of trying 2 swords just in case if it is better or not was the weirdest part here, since there is nothing that indicates why he wouldn't even try 2 swords prior Eugene's encounter (and again, the reason why he uses DW against him is NOT the problem). The fact he didn't bother prior that made it look like dual wielding was impossible in ALO, hence why this tactic looked out of nowhere, not because of the purpose of doing so, but rather the fact it is the only time he tries that.

Really, it is another reason why the narrative is so clunky in the anime: you hardly have any pertinent explanation or exposure of certain decisions, which leave you wondering about certain part. Basically, the anime adaptation is suffering of an unbalance "show" side, with little to no "tell".
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Old 2012-11-17, 18:02   Link #49
GDB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
The fact he didn't bother prior that made it look like dual wielding was impossible in ALO, hence why this tactic looked out of nowhere, not because of the purpose of doing so, but rather the fact it is the only time he tries that.
Or he's just not as stupid as Lloyd.

Quote:
Kratos: "Why do you fight with two swords?"
Lloyd: "Well, if my power from using one sword is 100, then my power from using two swords should be 200, right?"
Kratos: "Is that why you chose to fight with two swords?"
Lloyd: "Well yeah!"
Kratos: "..."
In a situation where you're offered no unique benefit to having a second weapon other than having a second weapon, a single weapon is more often better. Kirito likely thought along these lines, hence why he went with a two-handed sword instead of a one-handed sword like he was accustomed to from SAO.
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Old 2012-11-17, 18:04   Link #50
Oroboro
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Is Kirito's sword really a two hander, or is it just an oversized one hander? (Or maybe a Bastard Sword, I guess?)
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Old 2012-11-17, 18:17   Link #51
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDB View Post
In a situation where you're offered no unique benefit to having a second weapon other than having a second weapon, a single weapon is more often better. Kirito likely thought along these lines, hence why he went with a two-handed sword instead of a one-handed sword like he was accustomed to from SAO.
And this is where the lack of information and narration hurt ALO arc a lot: the gameplay is barely brushed over, and past the initial info dump, there is little information about ALO gameplay (the flight time they are allowed per level etc, the number of stats etc). SAO didn't have really a thorough tutorial either, but it had a much better cohesion for the game aspect, which ALO cruelly lacks by a long shot.

Since it is a video game, it is up to the game design if a certain feature is better or not. Some games will give no difference between 1hander or DW, while others will give a drastic difference in either term of defense and/or offense.

And since we have no narration or obvious scene with Kazuto pondering about ALO kirito gear, it doesn't help and leaves everything to assumptions: did he really not bother? Did he realize DW is worthless in ALO? Etc.
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Old 2012-11-17, 18:29   Link #52
~Yami~
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I think nitoryuu here isn't a skill.... it's like Kirito is just moving and waving the swords wildly...

oh yea... talking about the episode.. finally I can give the highest score in ALO arc again...

after a slow development, finally many awesome things happen...
Kirito fight against Eugene....
and Sakuya + Alicia... hahaha.... they're a nice addition to Kirito's harem...
must give compliment to Kirito-Yui's reaction toward Lyfa.... "you're not like a girl"

since they already making an agreement with Cait Sith and Sylph, will Salamander also help them to reach world tree?
ah! I'm also still confused about this alliance thing. At first, I thought it's based on races... but it seems not... Maybe I'll understand the alliance as guild

is Kirito's money from his time during SAO incident? that's a lot of money!

finally, our main heroine is on the move (she can't stay as princess in the cage forever, right? Lyfa is going to steal her 'main heroine' position)

aaaahh!!! I need more Lu-chan...
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Old 2012-11-17, 18:52   Link #53
Dengar
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Ahaha Kirito you damn chick magnet.

Can't blame him though. He's very macho, in a good way.
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Old 2012-11-17, 19:18   Link #54
Green˛
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
And a side note: would it be correct to assume that the Salamander Lance platoon chief claimed Kirito was with an undine player to make up for being spared by Kirito early on? That's a tad... out of proportion, especially how it affects his own faction...
The impression that I get from the flashback scene is that when he stated then that he he would rather not fight you, seems to now imply that he was directing that statement to that Undine player. Leefa's surprised reaction in this scene seems to also imply that she may know something more about this Undine as well.
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Old 2012-11-17, 19:21   Link #55
Esebian
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Originally Posted by Oroboro View Post
Is Kirito's sword really a two hander, or is it just an oversized one hander? (Or maybe a Bastard Sword, I guess?)
If I remember right it actually is a two-handed sword normally ^^ but sth that was kind of omitted in the anime:

Spoiler for Weapon weight from Vol. 1 and 3/4:


For the dual wield discussion, well I would assume that he simply didn't think about it...remember he had the more than enough coins, why not just buying a top armor and top swords or let sb forge them for him. He could easily pay that, still he didn't do it.

Because of this I think that he simply didn't care much for his equipment in first place and for the dual wield itself, well 2 greatswords are a bit hard to wear at your back at the same time and u don't know if he would have enough time for getting it out of his inventory before being killed.

On the other hand revealing it beforehand would have made Eugene concious about him and he would have used another strategy against him, as he himself stated that he thought that Kirito was just a bluffer with no actual skill.
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Old 2012-11-17, 19:22   Link #56
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
And a side note: would it be correct to assume that the Salamander Lance platoon chief claimed Kirito was with an undine player to make up for being spared by Kirito early on?
Yes.
Quote:
That's a tad... out of proportion, especially how it affects his own faction...
Maybe he's not into treachery and didn't like the deal with Sigurd.
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Old 2012-11-17, 19:25   Link #57
Oroboro
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Disregarding why he didn't pick up a second sword, I think the gear Kirito has is the best that was available from vendors - in most MMOs the good loot comes from quests, bosses, and high tier crafters.
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Old 2012-11-17, 19:32   Link #58
GDB
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Disregarding why he didn't pick up a second sword, I think the gear Kirito has is the best that was available from vendors - in most MMOs the good loot comes from quests, bosses, and high tier crafters.
Or the auction house, and since they were implying in this episode and the previous that they need money to buy ancient class weapons, one clearly exists.
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Old 2012-11-17, 19:35   Link #59
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Old 2012-11-17, 19:43   Link #60
RDF2050
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May be the reason why he didn't pick another sword was because of two things:

1. It needs to be heavy
2. He didn't believe he will be force to use two sword (dual-wielding) in this game
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