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Old 2012-11-19, 04:27   Link #1221
Obelisk ze Tormentor
Black Steel Knight
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
Heck, before your post on the brief history of those various characters, I had no idea what the story was about or where it was going. While the animation production is ridiculously good, the storytelling is very disjointed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
I'll never, ever understand this complaint about K.
I perfectly understand the complain since Monir's statement mirrors exactly what I felt about this series (so far). Storytelling-wise, K is really not friendly toward casual anime-watchers. Even a series with similarly complicated story like Shinsekai Yori is easy enough to be followed compared to this.
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Old 2012-11-19, 04:30   Link #1222
Marcus H.
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It's not like we already have plots that are not straightforward before.
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Old 2012-11-19, 05:05   Link #1223
monir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post

I'll never, ever understand this complaint about K.
Mind you, my impression is based on watching the anime solely. I haven't read the novel, or any of the spin-off stories, or the manga that is coming out in conjunction with the anime. Whatever I got out of the story is how it was presented in the anime episode by episode. So if you are someone who is familiar with the source material before coming in contact with the anime, then I think you are right when you state that you will never understand the complaint. But if you are someone who is watching this show without knowing anything about K beforehand, then I'm very interested to read your thought and will be grateful to further elaboration.
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Old 2012-11-19, 05:14   Link #1224
kusuriuri
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So, I haven't read many of the past speculations, so sorry if I'm repeating what other people have said already.

So here I go. Has anyone suddenly thought that perhaps Tatara was the Colorless King? Please don't tell me I'm the only one. In episode 6, it almost seemed like he was telling the future in some places, and didn't Kuro mention something about that being the Colorless King's power? Also, Izumo was saying that Tatara doesn't fight, but everything would be easier if he did. Am I the only one that was like 'WHAT...EH...WHAT IS THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN' ?

Maybe I am the only one. To me, Tatara seemed like he knew a lot more than he let on. (Izumo too, but that's a whole other story)

His peaceful nature and kind personality just reminds me of Ichigen-sama. His death was the cause of the entire plot of [K], and his similarities with Shiro are sometimes too hard to ignore. This has got to have a meaning. Perhaps trying to show the Tatara-Colorless King-Shiro link?

Ah, also, the official site says that Tatara's blood type is AB. Now, I'm not sure whether you guys are familiar with Japanese culture and bloodtypes, but basically your bloodtype says A LOT about your personality. In Japan, AB bloodtype implies some kind of split-personality. Saruhiko for example? AB bloodtype.

What are everyone's opinions?
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Old 2012-11-19, 05:42   Link #1225
kuromitsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
I perfectly understand the complain since Monir's statement mirrors exactly what I felt about this series (so far). Storytelling-wise, K is really not friendly toward casual anime-watchers. Even a series with similarly complicated story like Shinsekai Yori is easy enough to be followed compared to this.
Frankly, I still don't get it. It's not about being a casual or hardcore anime watcher, it's more about following an "unconventional" plot (in quotes because it's really not that unconventional) that doesn't explain everything in every second. K is, at its core, a mystery. It's not the sort of show that keeps explaining everything and throwing exposition in people's face: much like a puzzle, it's using hints and pieces of info to put together the whole picture. Yet somehow people can't accept this and keep expecting the anime to work in a way it's not supposed to. Yes, it has more than one plotline and it's full of unaswered questions - you're supposed to be coming up with theories and keep track of key names and buzzwords, and wait for the revelations as the picture comes together. Also, you're supposed to be paying attention and not wait for the characters to sit down and explain things in exposition scenes.

If you accept this, K is ridiculously easy to follow.

And the funny thing is, K is not the only show that does this, not at all, yet it's the only one people complain about. People keep comparing it to Durarara and Baccano - I don't think it's much like either, but the storytelling structure is similar. I had a difficult time following Baccano the first time I watched it, and yet I don't remember seeing anyone complain about how confusing it is and how it doesn't make sense. People just sat back and waited for the great picture to come together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
Mind you, my impression is based on watching the anime solely. I haven't read the novel, or any of the spin-off stories, or the manga that is coming out in conjunction with the anime. Whatever I got out of the story is how it was presented in the anime episode by episode. So if you are someone who is familiar with the source material before coming in contact with the anime, then I think you are right when you state that you will never understand the complaint.
Same here, actually - I haven't read either the manga or the two novels (and frankly I'm not very interested in the Memories of Red manga or the Homra novel), but I think the anime is working well without them so far. However, they're not source materials, K is an original anime. The two manga and the two novels contain extra info about the characters and the world. Sure, this sort of information is nice to know, but what spoilers I've seen so far were not not vital for understanding the anime - and it's likely that the anime will eventually touch on some of them. (Then again, maybe I'm just laid-back about not knowing every single detail. For example, for me, "Sword of Damocles: Kings' power thingie with a meaningful name and a bit of info about how it shouldn't fall because boom happens" is enough information to work with while watching the show. More info is nice but not vital.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
But if you are someone who is watching this show without knowing anything about K beforehand, then I'm very interested to read your thought and will be grateful to further elaboration.
See above - I think it's just an attitude thing. For some reason many people keep expecting K to be something it isn't (anime with a straightforward storytelling) and call its storytelling flawed when it's not.

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2012-11-19 at 06:01.
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Old 2012-11-19, 06:14   Link #1226
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Black Steel Knight
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
If you accept this, K is ridiculously easy to follow.
Well, maybe it’s just me, but I always get this feeling that K anime is “too busy playing by itself” and not paying enough attention to the audience. It’s like you’re a newbie who got lost in a conversation between geeks/nerds. I do understand subtlety and really enjoy mystery series (the most recent one being Shinsekai Yori I mentioned earlier), but K’s execution in storytelling is just lacking for me (so far).
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Old 2012-11-19, 10:09   Link #1227
Marcus H.
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Quote:
Mind you, my impression is based on watching the anime solely. I haven't read the novel, or any of the spin-off stories, or the manga that is coming out in conjunction with the anime. Whatever I got out of the story is how it was presented in the anime episode by episode. So if you are someone who is familiar with the source material before coming in contact with the anime, then I think you are right when you state that you will never understand the complaint. But if you are someone who is watching this show without knowing anything about K beforehand, then I'm very interested to read your thought and will be grateful to further elaboration.
Anime-only watcher here, and the story so far is good for me. As of Episode 06, I have fully grasped that the story of K is not like an action anime series where what you see is what you get, but rather as a mystery series where even the smallest detail may actually be a clue to later events.

As SCEPTER4, Homra and the other colors take up the scenes, we are left with clues that one should take into consideration when watching the next episode. The community actually helps in the understanding of the story... not that a single person can't understand what is going on, but rather we stand as the unseen detectives that try to sort out the clues to find out the secret of the world of K. I'm not sure if this is what the production team thought of in creating the story, but I think it's done a good job in stirring up speculations from fans.

Quote:
Well, maybe it’s just me, but I always get this feeling that K anime is “too busy playing by itself” and not paying enough attention to the audience. It’s like you’re a newbie who got lost in a conversation between geeks/nerds. I do understand subtlety and really enjoy mystery series (the most recent one being Shinsekai Yori I mentioned earlier), but K’s execution in storytelling is just lacking for me (so far).
I admit that the flashiness of the world of K may be off-putting to some, as others may have dropped the show for being style-over-substance, but it actually makes searching for clues even more rewarding. Heck, even with Animax Asia's severe cuts to the episode, I can still understand everything as those who have chosen other methods of watching it.

This is the kind of show that those who have been spoiled by stories that lack subtlety in uncovering plot threads may have dropped by Episode 3 or so.
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Old 2012-11-19, 10:28   Link #1228
Kanon
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The main difficulty I'm having is keeping track of the names of all these characters. I admit this show does require a bit more attention than most if you want to understand everything. Every little clue counts. However, the plot is actually not all that complicated. It's just that there are a lot of stuff we are still in the dark about (this anime doesn't offer generous info dumps) so it can seem a little confusing at times, but that's intentional. It's part of the mystery. Everything will come together at the end.
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Old 2012-11-19, 12:30   Link #1229
Becquerel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kusuriuri View Post
So, I haven't read many of the past speculations, so sorry if I'm repeating what other people have said already.

So here I go. Has anyone suddenly thought that perhaps Tatara was the Colorless King? Please don't tell me I'm the only one. In episode 6, it almost seemed like he was telling the future in some places, and didn't Kuro mention something about that being the Colorless King's power? Also, Izumo was saying that Tatara doesn't fight, but everything would be easier if he did. Am I the only one that was like 'WHAT...EH...WHAT IS THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN' ?

Maybe I am the only one. To me, Tatara seemed like he knew a lot more than he let on. (Izumo too, but that's a whole other story)

His peaceful nature and kind personality just reminds me of Ichigen-sama. His death was the cause of the entire plot of [K], and his similarities with Shiro are sometimes too hard to ignore. This has got to have a meaning. Perhaps trying to show the Tatara-Colorless King-Shiro link?

Ah, also, the official site says that Tatara's blood type is AB. Now, I'm not sure whether you guys are familiar with Japanese culture and bloodtypes, but basically your bloodtype says A LOT about your personality. In Japan, AB bloodtype implies some kind of split-personality. Saruhiko for example? AB bloodtype.

What are everyone's opinions?
Wow I've never thought of that before but that's an amazing idea!! My only problem is that Kuroh's master was the colorless king and I don't think there can be more than one king at a time. Maybe, like Shiro, Tatara was a candidate for the colorless king and that is why he displays many of the colorless traits, such as predicting Mikoto becoming a king. We honestly don't know a whole lot of the about the colorless king besides that he has the power to predict the future and I'm not sure if this is the only ability or if there were more that just haven't been revealed yet. If only there was more info about Ichigen Miwa

I also found you're blood type comparison really interesting because I don't think that Tatara is all what he seems to be, I kind of feel like there is something off about him but....that's just me

Also, someone else may have posted this, but why is Shiro already wearing the school uniform when Weismann pushes him off the blimp. It's already been seen that he doesn't belong to the school so it doesn't make sense to me as to why he is wearing the uniform.
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Old 2012-11-19, 12:37   Link #1230
GDiddy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
I can see it too: exposition. I mean, Homra is getting the most attention: in the anime (where they're pretty much positioned as the good guys, had the whole sob episode with Tatara who was too good for this sinful earth, etc.), and there's a manga about them and a novel to flesh them out even more. Obviously, people are going to latch onto them. Compared to this, the Sexy Corps has only the novel, and hadn't had a focus episode in the anime (we had to wait until ep 7 for Munakata to even do something) where they're still in a "bad guys" position. But Shiro... being the main mystery of the anime they can't exactly do any background material, or even extended material about him. (Hell, even Kurou got a manga!)
Judging from what I've seen on pixiv, I think more people like Kurou anyway.

Did someone translate Kurou's manga? 'cause I REALLLLLLLLEEEE wanna read that one....

Quote:
Not as much as someone like Hanazawa Kana for her moe-bait roles....
I know who she is and I'm surprised she's not in this one. That woman who plays Officer Big Boobs in Blue must make some mad money playing fanservice/sexy characters...

Quote:
I'll never, ever understand this complaint about K.
I can understand some of the complaints now that I've seen it up to 7. The story is waaaaaaaay too over the place, though the animation is fantastic and while Kuroh and Neko are awesome, the MC is kinda a bore. Something tells me that this is going to wind up leaving even MORE questions by the time this ends.

However, K isn't supposed to be deep as shit; it's basically dumb fun and as a fujioshi, dumb fun with cute guys wielding swords XD
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Old 2012-11-19, 13:35   Link #1231
Defade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
I'll never, ever understand this complaint about K.
Gotta agree with kuromitsu here. It wasn't until after episode 6 that I looked through some side materials - and quickly lost my interest since I belong to the small part of the fandom that isn't all over HOMRA, lol. I had no problem understanding the story. As kuromitsu said, K is primarily a mystery more than anything, but I think that message probably flew over a majority of the audience's heads, who came in just expecting flashy action and nothing more.

The only thing vaguely resembling info dump in K is just Kuroh and Shiro's conversation in episode 3 regarding kings and clans - the rest of the worldview is revealed through a 'show, don't tell' method, and the mystery is slowly unraveled through various hints and foreshadowing in every episode. Some of them might not seem obvious at first, but to me, every revelation so far had made sense in the context of previous hints and clues. Heck, someone even theorized that Shiro fell through the roof of the gym after murdering Tatara as early as episode 4.

I think this problem seems to be rather prevalent in the anime audience today, who come into a multi-course meal like K and expect fast food. K takes its time to explore the center mystery of the series, and leaves us with only enough hints to fuel mass theorizing but not enough to reveal its hand too soon. Of course, there is nothing wrong with 'fast food' anime that have straightforward storytelling, and by no means am I using the term 'fast food' in a degrading manner - I am enjoying quite a few of them in this season -, but those types of anime are just fundamentally different from shows like K and expecting them to be the same will just bring disappointment.

I remember back when we showed episode 1 in my university's anime club. The major complaint seems to be 'the writers forgot the plot', which I personally found to be completely unwarranted. The first episode did exactly what it was supposed to and nothing more - introduce the rather huge cast of characters, explore the futuristic setting of the world, give us a little bit of exposition and a rather intriguing plot hook to chew on. However, if you were expecting to get information spoonfed to you in chewable little pieces, I'm afraid K just isn't that sort of show.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
This is the kind of show that those who have been spoiled by stories that lack subtlety in uncovering plot threads may have dropped by Episode 3 or so.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Old 2012-11-19, 14:56   Link #1232
GDiddy
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The funny thing though, those same people that complain about 'K DOESNT HAVE A PLOT THEREFORE IT SUCKS' are the same people who LOVE Durarara and Baccano, which K definitely has some influences. Hell, one of the characters is a deadringer for Shizuo.

I don't care though. This is one of my faves this year and I'm definitely intrigued by this world. Hopefully Viz puts this out on dvd next year.

And while I"ll admit that the story goes all over the place, Durarara and Baccano are among my favorite anime EVER so it's all good. XD
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Old 2012-11-19, 15:33   Link #1233
Defade
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DRRR doesn't really do it for me, but Baccano! is my all time favorite anime, hands down.

Was I confused as hell by the first episode? Yes. Was it immensely satisfying when everything came together in the end? Hell yeah.

Compared to Baccano!'s tendency to jump around several stories all taking place at different times, K is really easy to follow.
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Old 2012-11-19, 17:50   Link #1234
Dengar
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It's true. The idea that Neko had the ability to alter memories as well as perception has gone through my head and several others.

I still don't buy that she summoned the sword of damocles. The sword of damocles was an illusion, as was the explosion.




...Seriously why do people insist on equating "Illusion" to "Hologram"? An illusion is so much more powerful than that.
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Old 2012-11-19, 20:56   Link #1235
Cosmic Eagle
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post




...Seriously why do people insist on equating "Illusion" to "Hologram"? An illusion is so much more powerful than that.
It's not an invalid point as you are making it seem. Munakata is a King so it's not unreasonable to think that the energy colliding with his has to be something with more substance.

There's too little stuff to conclude for sure whether Shiro's Damocles is real or not but even so the point still stands
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Old 2012-11-19, 22:07   Link #1236
Becquerel
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Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
There's too little stuff to conclude for sure whether Shiro's Damocles is real or not but even so the point still stands
I thought that it was just an illusion because after summoning his Sword of Damocles "Shiro" dissolved into a storm of rose petals, which is Neko's illusion trademark. I thought that this cemented the fact that it was illusion or was Shiro real and she just magicked him out of there?
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Old 2012-11-20, 00:39   Link #1237
kusuriuri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Becquerel View Post
Also, someone else may have posted this, but why is Shiro already wearing the school uniform when Weismann pushes him off the blimp. It's already been seen that he doesn't belong to the school so it doesn't make sense to me as to why he is wearing the uniform.
ABVHLBAVHJL I WAS WONDERING ABOUT THAT TOO

Unless it's a mistake, doesn't that imply that he's actually a student there? WHAT IS HAPPENING.

Also, WHO THE HELL IS THE GREEN KING? AND THE OTHER ONE TOO. BLACK, WAS IT? Since when Kuro was explaining the Kings, the seasonings on the table all had the same coloured lids as each of the Kings. And the only one we have no idea about is Black.

I remember reading somewhere that people believe Ashinaka Highschool is the home of the Green King? Like, you know how scenes in Shizome City sort of have this blue-wash covering the screen all the time? This is apparently a subtle hint that Shizome is controlled by the Blue King and Scepter 4. Then apparently the scenes at the school have a more green-ish colour to them.

So who is the King, then? The student council president?

Opinions, anyone?
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Old 2012-11-20, 01:00   Link #1238
Defade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Becquerel View Post
I thought that it was just an illusion because after summoning his Sword of Damocles "Shiro" dissolved into a storm of rose petals, which is Neko's illusion trademark. I thought that this cemented the fact that it was illusion or was Shiro real and she just magicked him out of there?
No one is debating that Shiro disappearing at the end was Neko's work, but it's far from definitive evidence that the entire show of him manifesting his sword of damocles is her illusion as well. After all, Shiro disappearing was the only place where we saw the trademark audio and visual cue indicating Neko's powers at work.
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Old 2012-11-20, 01:43   Link #1239
shmaster
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I was wondering, if the K anime has marketed itself as "K - Who Killed Tatara". Would we have much less complaint?
I have to say the preview were somewhat misleading, thus drawing in the wrong fanbase initially. Who would have thought the anime is going to be a mystery show?

On the other hand, I am not too sure about what is the purpose of the anime in the entire project. Is it going to tie up all the loose threads from the other works? (the novels are pretty inconclusive and the events occurred prior to the anime) Or is it a over-glorified commercial to boost the sales of other works? (as in the, the main branch of the project really hasn't been revealed yet)
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Old 2012-11-20, 02:52   Link #1240
Dengar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
It's not an invalid point as you are making it seem. Munakata is a King so it's not unreasonable to think that the energy colliding with his has to be something with more substance.

There's too little stuff to conclude for sure whether Shiro's Damocles is real or not but even so the point still stands
Thinking that all of that stuff is enough reason to think the whole thing an illusion is at least just as reasonable.
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