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View Poll Results: Shin Sekai Yori - Episode 8 Rating
Perfect 10 10 13.33%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 10 13.33%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 20 26.67%
7 out of 10 : Good 14 18.67%
6 out of 10 : Average 15 20.00%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 4 5.33%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 1.33%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 1.33%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-11-18, 23:41   Link #121
Konja7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
So they do it at that age? 12? With both?
That depends what you mean by "do it". Intercourse between minors is prohibited, but other kind of sex (oral job, hand job) are allowed.

This is said in the novel.
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Old 2012-11-18, 23:56   Link #122
HandofFate
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Just watched the episode. Surprising relationship developments. Maria and Saki look much prettier. Poor Satarou, always getting rejected. Curious what happened when Shun and the Sensei got close and had a 'clash'.

The last scene, why did Shun just randomly decide to throw out 3 balls and have them rotate around him for no reason...I have no idea what that's suppose to accomplish.
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Old 2012-11-19, 00:32   Link #123
neshru
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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
Episode 5 is more of innocent making experiments....
That doesn't seem to be the case, according to the explanation the "library" gave. Also, Saki loves Shun. But she has no problems being with Maria at the age of 14. That to me indicates that she is bisex. Other details seem to indicate that most kids in that society are, too.
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Old 2012-11-19, 02:54   Link #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
Sex ed is usually taught around the ages of 11-13... just how young is it supposed to be taught, nursery school?
About a year before puberty starts sounds fine.

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Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
I read spoilers of the novel.
I try to avoid at least the major ones, until I can try to read the novel.

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Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
In the novel says that intercourse between minors is prohibited by their society. Of course a guy and a girl (who are minors) can make other kind of sex (oral job, hand job), but intercourse is forbidden for them (there is even regular body check to confirm that).
Well, the anime messed up the plot pretty badly in order to appeal to a greater audience with a source material that is definitely not for kids, however delicately it is narrated.

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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
So its not instinct why males go on with a naked girl than another naked man?
We learn as we grow up, the same way some like small and other big boobs, short or tall partners... the same way we develop a taste for guys, girls or both. During other historical periods being homo/bi-sexual was socially acceptable and more common than heterosexual intercourse.
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Old 2012-11-19, 04:03   Link #125
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Hm, I wonder if Maria really loves saki, or if she's doing it just because it's the norm too, I seem to get that vibe from alot of the students. And here I thought we had a precious true yuri moment. : (
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Old 2012-11-19, 04:44   Link #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
That depends what you mean by "do it". Intercourse between minors is prohibited, but other kind of sex (oral job, hand job) are allowed.

This is said in the novel.
God... Now I'm nervous where this anime might be going.....

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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
During other historical periods being homo/bi-sexual was socially acceptable and more common than heterosexual intercourse.


Nooooo!!!!!
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Old 2012-11-19, 07:23   Link #127
hai_san
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Storywise SSY is still very strong but animation quality it has drop very much. The first 3-4 EP animation was top, but as of now it is a better than medicore. In Ep 8 e.g. Saki hair color change from being green-grey to orange-red and back (and dont tell me it because of the sunset...)
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Old 2012-11-19, 07:28   Link #128
neshru
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Originally Posted by hai_san View Post
In Ep 8 e.g. Saki hair color change from being green-grey to orange-red and back (and dont tell me it because of the sunset...)
If you're talking about the last scene, it was done like that on purpose, yes. I thought it was an interesting experiment.
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Old 2012-11-19, 07:39   Link #129
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Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
The argument that this is intended as a form of birth control seems silly to me. Certainly this society is advanced enough to have developed contraception. There's even the possibility for PK abortions or even self-induced PK abortions. If heterosexual relationships are discouraged, there has to be more to it than contraception. How much do we know about how reproduction works in this society? Is Saki the natural offspring of her parents?
The society doesn't seem technologically advanced at all. The tech. knowledge might be preserved in the hands of the elders, but it sure doesn't seem to freely distributed and implemented.

Secondly, PK abortions? They're not supposed to harm other humans in any way much less kill them, and I'd guess even a fertilized egg counts. The average person probably doesn't even know PK can be used on other humans to cause damage, then there's also the death feedback...

Thirdly, there's a spoiler that supports the contraception theory, but I'm not supposed to post that here.

Their community is small, nobody seems to have siblings (not sure whether Saki's mother's lament about not wanting to lose any more children in the earlier episodes suggests Saki had siblings), which leads me to believe that reproduction, like most things is very tightly controlled in their society.
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Old 2012-11-19, 07:58   Link #130
kuromitsu
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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
Well, the anime messed up the plot pretty badly in order to appeal to a greater audience with a source material that is definitely not for kids, however delicately it is narrated.
*sigh* You do realize that the novel is not something niche, right? I've read about middle-school and high-school teachers recommending it to their students, and that's pretty much correct. The only objectionable or controversial part in the novel is the sex, but even the sex scenes are nothing particularly "scandalous" or even interesting, and the whole thing is just not particularly "mature" material. I mean, if it was the early 20th century it might have been, but it's the early 21th century.

The anime is not cutting the porn because it's trying to be family friendly, it's cutting it because 1) in case of the first one, they're 12-YEAR-OLDS. Good luck trying to get that on TV... 2) as for the rest, they would be gratuituous. (As they are in the manga: for anyone who claims the manga is doing a better job, no, the manga actually inserted random hot two girl action scenes not in the novel without any explanation.) The only reason they're not that gratuituous in the novel is because of Saki's internal narration throughout them, but since they can't exactly do that in the anime, the scenes wouldn't add anything to the anime except for providing some fap material for horny viewers (but then if someone wants that they can find other shows that were made specially for that reason).

And the anime is still not messing up the plot "pretty badly". Apparently they left out one important bit of information that would've made this episode easier to understand, but otherwise from what I can tell the plot is still progressing pretty much as it should.

Also, I'm not touching this debate, but...

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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
During other historical periods being homo/bi-sexual was socially acceptable and more common than heterosexual intercourse.
Not really. Homoromantic relations were, if not more acceptable than heterosexual, but at least acceptable during most of history, as long as sexual behavior wasn't involved. When it comes to sex, social acceptability depends on the culture and the historical period - sometimes it was acceptable as long as one was doing the penetration not the other way around, later the whole thing was condemned as sodomy (such as in Europe in the middle ages). But being the "woman" in a homosexual relationship was regarded as something no self-respecting adult man does. Even in the Japanese middle ages where homosexual relations were common, it's not like you could just go and bang any good-looking guy. There was a hierarchy about who can penetrate whom and under what circumstances. Anything outside that was frowned upon.
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Old 2012-11-19, 12:22   Link #131
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that episode was scary

i wonder if their teacher is involved or no in this stuff , because i believe adults changed them when they got back to the village
wtf
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Old 2012-11-19, 13:04   Link #132
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Originally Posted by BlueWitch View Post
Hm, I wonder if Maria really loves saki, or if she's doing it just because it's the norm too, I seem to get that vibe from alot of the students. And here I thought we had a precious true yuri moment. : (
But if it's the norm for their society, wouldn't the 'love' be authentic? I mean, what's there to say that society, friends, and even your family, has conformed you into how you think, and not by your own standards? I was under the impression that generally, humans are creatures that adapt to the environment they are given, and, given said environment, will earnestly shape themselves to become natural within it. Even if that environment is/was staged with the intent of manipulation, wouldn't that still make the feelings and experiences of those within it still be just as valid?
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Old 2012-11-19, 13:57   Link #133
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
*sigh* You do realize that the novel is not something niche, right? I've read about middle-school and high-school teachers recommending it to their students, and that's pretty much correct. The only objectionable or controversial part in the novel is the sex, but even the sex scenes are nothing particularly "scandalous" or even interesting, and the whole thing is just not particularly "mature" material. I mean, if it was the early 20th century it might have been, but it's the early 21th century.
*longer sigh* Burrough's "Naked Lunch" contains graphic rape, homosexual intercourse, swinging, adultery, gore, leaving allegories aside... none of these were central to the plot and the theme of the novel which was irrelevant to them, but all of these were essential in creating the background and mood in order to tell a very interesting and complicated story.

These elements themselves are no indication about the literary quality of a novel, but require some basic maturity maturity from their readers in order to appreciate them.

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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
The anime is not cutting the porn because it's trying to be family friendly, it's cutting it because 1) in case of the first one, they're 12-YEAR-OLDS. Good luck trying to get that on TV... 2) as for the rest, they would be gratuituous. (As they are in the manga: for anyone who claims the manga is doing a better job, no, the manga actually inserted random hot two girl action scenes not in the novel without any explanation.) The only reason they're not that gratuituous in the novel is because of Saki's internal narration throughout them, but since they can't exactly do that in the anime, the scenes wouldn't add anything to the anime except for providing some fap material for horny viewers (but then if someone wants that they can find other shows that were made specially for that reason).

And the anime is still not messing up the plot "pretty badly". Apparently they left out one important bit of information that would've made this episode easier to understand, but otherwise from what I can tell the plot is still progressing pretty much as it should.
That bit was one thing... storytelling the "little monster rat adventure" was a disaster (not only the Saki/Satoru relationship), but the flow of events, references to past events and background information, time and location consistency, and so on.

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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Also, I'm not touching this debate, but...

Not really. Homoromantic relations were, if not more acceptable than heterosexual, but at least acceptable during most of history, as long as sexual behavior wasn't involved. When it comes to sex, social acceptability depends on the culture and the historical period - sometimes it was acceptable as long as one was doing the penetration not the other way around, later the whole thing was condemned as sodomy (such as in Europe in the middle ages). But being the "woman" in a homosexual relationship was regarded as something no self-respecting adult man does. Even in the Japanese middle ages where homosexual relations were common, it's not like you could just go and bang any good-looking guy. There was a hierarchy about who can penetrate whom and under what circumstances. Anything outside that was frowned upon.
From the top of my head, teacher/student relationship in medieval and early modern Japan and China, patronage system in the Roman empire, schooling in ancient Athens and colonies (which is the only one including lesbians I know of), monastic and military orders in times of peace, janissaries during the decline of the Ottoman empire... and despite forgetting a lot, I am also skipping more naturalistic societies of which the social aspects, I am acquainted with.

Generally, women that were not professionally trained to satisfy men were not viewed erotically.
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Old 2012-11-19, 14:39   Link #134
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Regarding the ominous stuff about the "super powerful PK user" and Shun, I think he may be developing one of those syndromes the minoshiro mentioned in 4. Karma Demon, Fiend, whatever, we'll see later. But it would be a nice way to bring them back to a relevant plane.

About the animation, the animation was good and abundant, I don't see where is the problem with that. What was jarring was the sakkaning, it seems like Ishihama got lazy/decided for a not so attractive approach, since Uchuu show didn't have these problems. It's obvious that that a lot of original drawings were preserved and not fixed by the AD. While I don't have a problem with this per-se, many of those drawings were just not up to par.
Anyway, I wouldn't say the episode is ugly. 90 OVAs, early 2000 shows were ugly. This is just a small production fuckup.
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Old 2012-11-19, 15:17   Link #135
kuromitsu
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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
*longer sigh* Burrough's "Naked Lunch" contains graphic rape, homosexual intercourse, swinging, adultery, gore, leaving allegories aside... none of these were central to the plot and the theme of the novel which was irrelevant to them, but all of these were essential in creating the background and mood in order to tell a very interesting and complicated story.
But this is not Naked Lunch (oh god, I can just imagine... xD). This is a fantasy novel about future humans with supernatural abilities vs. mutant rat-people, which in the US would be likely published as YA. And I still say the anime pretty much does the best it can with a source material that is not really suited to being adapted into a visual medium (being very narration-heavy). It's not perfect, obviously, and there are some questionable decisions (such as not mentioning the strict rules about male-female sex yet), but these are nowhere near as crippling flaws as you try to present them. The anime is still very interesting and complicated - honestly, would you be even bothered if you hadn't looked up info about the novel, or hadn't read the manga and then expected to see the same thing in the anime?

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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
That bit was one thing... storytelling the "little monster rat adventure" was a disaster (not only the Saki/Satoru relationship), but the flow of events, references to past events and background information, time and location consistency, and so on.
The Saki/Satoru relationship as presented in the anime was the same as it was presented in the novel. I really don't understand why you keep insisting that the anime ruined relationships among the group of friends when it didn't. Nobody had wild monkey sex that the anime cut because they wanted to make it family friendly or whatever (you say that after this episode? ). The lone reference that the anime didn't include (likely because it would've been ridiculously awkward, also: first person narration) was just that: a reference that was more or less covered by the library critter's explanation about the bonobo thing, and then the scene with Satoru and Saki. Nobody made huge confessions that the anime cut because whatever. The anime supplied enough background info to understand what was going on without going into exposition mode for long minutes in every single episode. And so on and so on.

Was it perfect? No. The writing obviously had problems. But that's a writing problem and not an adaptation problem. Read the novel and see for yourself. And forget the manga, the manga basically said "to hell with the source material, we need some more hot lesbo action here" and that's what it did. The first arc of the anime was pretty faithful to the novel, obviously not 100% faithful, for many reasons including time constraints and the problems of adapting first person narration into a visual medium, but it was very far from being an adaptation disaster.

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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
From the top of my head, teacher/student relationship in medieval and early modern Japan and China, patronage system in the Roman empire, schooling in ancient Athens and colonies (which is the only one including lesbians I know of), monastic and military orders in times of peace, janissaries during the decline of the Ottoman empire... and despite forgetting a lot, I am also skipping more naturalistic societies of which the social aspects, I am acquainted with.
But you're missing the point. These were all regulated environments. It's not like they were living in a gay paradise (well, I suppose it depends on the individual...). Teacher-student. Patron-protégé. Master-apprentice. Nenja-wakashuu. etc. etc. There's a pattern here. There's a reason, a very widespread reason, why Cicero didn't mock Marcus Antonius by saying that he had homosexual relationships but by saying that he was the "passive" partner in said relationships.

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Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
Generally, women that were not professionally trained to satisfy men were not viewed erotically.
This depends on the culture so much it's not even funny.

And this is getting off topic so I'll just stop here.

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2012-11-19 at 17:51. Reason: clarification
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Old 2012-11-19, 17:53   Link #136
neshru
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The Saki/Satoru relationship as presented in the anime was the same as it was presented in the novel. I really don't understand why you keep insisting that the anime ruined relationships among the group of friends when it didn't. Nobody had wild monkey sex that the anime cut because they wanted to make it family friendly or whatever (you say that after this episode? ).
Don't mind him, he's being going on about that since episode 5. You're better off just ignoring him at this point.
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Old 2012-11-19, 18:07   Link #137
kuromitsu
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You're right... :/ I guess I just don't want others who may read this thread to get the wrong idea.
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Old 2012-11-19, 22:46   Link #138
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I wonder if Shun is going to turn evil like Sakai Yuuji did in Shakugan no Shana III?
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Old 2012-11-20, 11:29   Link #139
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as expected after 1000 years in the future, relationships are more open

Shun always so mysterious, interesting to see how this one develop, are they gonna disappear one by one?
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Old 2012-11-20, 20:13   Link #140
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I wonder if Shun is going to turn evil like Sakai Yuuji did in Shakugan no Shana III?
If that would strengthen Saki and Shun's development... no problem...
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