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View Poll Results: Code Geass: Akito the Exiled OVA - Episode 2 Rating
Perfect 10 2 22.22%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 1 11.11%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 4 44.44%
7 out of 10 : Good 1 11.11%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 11.11%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-11-20, 04:37   Link #681
Bonzo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
Saying his death was redemption is absurd. He didn't have to do Zero Requiem in the first place. Infact, said act caused more destruction than the rebellion that preceded it. He should have taken the agent of justice role himself, where he could have also been more help to the world alive than dead. Besides, if he deserved to die, then so did other characters like Cornelia.
Well, but you must consider another thing, the same I repeated more times in my comic:

Japanese culture and mentality.

After all, britannian too were characterized like "japanese people" if you see their behaviour.

Before all, the samurai honor code, still used in the japan army and other factors, their law is:

"When you kill your enemy, you did the right thing"
"never fight in a advantage way"
"there's honor just in the death"
"if the victory is to die, you must die"
"we can't live in the shame"
"a samurai can't suffer his master error if he's the guilt."

If you see, the anime was too much tied with these things, so in their thought way, Ougi isn't a asshole and Lelouch had to die.
And at the same way, Cornelia, Nina & co. can live without any consequence.

I made a trip in Japan 1-4 November and I can confirm, they're totally different and seems "bizarre" making a comparison with our western thought line.
Above all, they're very ignorant about how people live outside the japan, for them, outside japan there's nothing.
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Old 2012-11-20, 05:27   Link #682
azul120
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Originally Posted by Bonzo View Post
Well, but you must consider another thing, the same I repeated more times in my comic:

Japanese culture and mentality.

After all, britannian too were characterized like "japanese people" if you see their behaviour.

Before all, the samurai honor code, still used in the japan army and other factors, their law is:

"When you kill your enemy, you did the right thing"
"never fight in a advantage way"
"there's honor just in the death"
"if the victory is to die, you must die"
"we can't live in the shame"
"a samurai can't suffer his master error if he's the guilt."

If you see, the anime was too much tied with these things, so in their thought way, Ougi isn't a asshole and Lelouch had to die.
And at the same way, Cornelia, Nina & co. can live without any consequence.
That makes no sense. Cornelia was worse in that regard.

As for Ohgi, he was responsible for Lelouch's final descent, leading him to the ZR. Lelouch was still ever so slightly determined to pick himself up with Kallen's help before the betrayal happened.
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Old 2012-11-20, 06:41   Link #683
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Yes, but In 30 seconds, Ougi said, zero used and betrayed us because he told lies to us.

So, zero becomed the enemy and then, Ougi, declaring war against lelouch made a right and honorable act (in the japan mantality).

For this I say japanese ideas about justice & co are very different, so, Cornelia was a bitch, but at last she's against lelouch, then a black knight ally, all okay, for them.

However, I assure you, we can't understand japan people, they're too much different by us, like ideas, mentality, character, etc....
Like they don't know nothing about europe or united states life style.
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Old 2012-11-20, 08:06   Link #684
faiz blaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azul120 View Post
Saying his death was redemption is absurd. He didn't have to do Zero Requiem in the first place. Infact, said act caused more destruction than the rebellion that preceded it. He should have taken the agent of justice role himself, where he could have also been more help to the world alive than dead. Besides, if he deserved to die, then so did other characters like Cornelia.
This really isn't the place to talk about this, but I'll go ahead and try to explain one last time: Zero Requiem was a fitting end FOR LELOUCH HIMSELF.

Did he deserved to die? Maybe not.

But he also was no saint. For the sake of his own goals, he used people, deceived them, sacrificed their lives at his own discretion… in short, committed all sorts of evil acts. This is something that he himself recognized and tried to address somehow.

Having lost his sister and after finally settling the scores with his father, Lelouch no longer had lingering attachments to this world. With no other objective in life, he tried to make some sort of atonement for his sins. The method chosen was the Zero Requiem: to become a villain that everyone would hate and then die so that all past conflicts and resentments could be settled - buying a chance for peace in the future. He wavered when he discovered that Nunnally was still alive, but ultimately sticked to his decision due believing it was the right thing to do.

Arguably, that was not the best solution. Maybe there were better ways to resolve things in the eyes of the world. But it was nevertheless the best FOR LELOUCH HIMSELF. After committing many sins and causing suffering for many, in the end he put all his efforts into making amends and was finally allowed to die with the satisfaction that the world - along with everything that he held dear - had the chance to move towards a better future.

If that is not redemption, I don't know what is.
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Old 2012-11-20, 15:04   Link #685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonzo View Post
However, I assure you, we can't understand japan people, they're too much different by us, like ideas, mentality, character, etc....
Like they don't know nothing about europe or united states life style.
Ironically enough, though this surely wasn't your intention at the time, I believe this part can actually bring us back to the subject of Akito.

The first OVA does seem to briefly but openly raise the question of how the Japanese think and how they are perceived by others, particularly the Europeans, as being quite different, especially with respect to how they view the subject of death. I don't know if they will elaborate on the topic later on, although it's rather likely considering the themes involved, but we can make some basic observations and speculations.

For example, there's the stereotypical racist commander Anou, who doesn't mind taking advantage of the Japanese mindset that supposedly allows them to die through ritual suicide or, more to the point, throw themselves against the enemy in kamikaze style. He is being very racist, of course, and portrayed as a clear "bad guy" but from his perspective he is simply acting in accordance with how they already think and act.

Curiously, as heavy-handed as that sounds like, it does seem like both Akito and especially his dead comrades, albeit for different reasons, were quite satisfied to throw their lives away in battle. It doesn't appear that they were particularly surprised or angered by the installation and use of the self-destruct systems on the Alexanders. Even if the decision was made right before the operation began, one would think none of the pilots felt this was entirely unusual or unexpected. Akito himself was, in fact, more surprised by the fact that someone suddenly disabled said systems on his KMF.

And what's more, the show apparently has the "ghosts" of his Japanese friends tell Akito they're fine with dying like that if their families can earn E.U. citizenship. On this level, you could ostensibly argue the Japanese do follow, on the surface, the expectations set by the stereotype: they are a people that loves to die and sacrifice themselves in combat, thus perhaps one might consider Anou isn't necessarily wrong...he's just being too much of an obvious jerk about it.

But on the other hand, we also have Leila, who directly stands up to Anou, even if rather late to make much of a difference, as someone who doesn't believe in happily wasting so many lives like that. In a certain way, she's definitely representing the so-called "voice of reason" against the use of tactic that isn't merely cruel to the Japanese as human beings but is also leading the operation to failure and throwing military resources down the drain. Needless to say, we are currently meant to see her as a "good" person here.

You could say both her personal thoughts and her sense of duty intersected there, when Leila finally took action, but this might not be the case in the near-future. For someone who is ostensibly inclined to be on the side of the Japanese and sympathizes with their plight, one would think she still hasn't fully understood -or refuses to accept- how some of them actually think and act in line with the stereotypes that Anou and other Europeans believe in.

In fact, it would seem that Akito's attitude and motivations -plus maybe even those of the "new" recruits- are destined to conflict with this reasonable alternative represented by Leila, at least at first, which is where we might see a fair amount of tension before they can reach some sort of understanding. For instance, the upcoming battle against Suzaku may become too much of a real or potential bloodbath that some of her subordinates will try to go against her orders in desperation. Right now, Ryo and his gang have no clear sense of loyalty and Akito is merely fulfilling his duties as a soldier to the letter. It doesn't seem like he'll want to instantly change his mind just because someone might object to his beliefs. I imagine the same would apply to the others.
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Old 2012-11-20, 16:47   Link #686
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I not spoke just for code geass production, if you make a step behind, watch some other anime with characters or event in usa or europe.

There're always japan behaviours, at depsite of the country.

In the past, until 2000, japan writers were more accurate, now instead....they seems to take some info just using google and after...all japan.

A example is sgt. frog, a crazy/comedy anime, in more funny gags they shown a total ignorance about the rest of the world, but the list is very long.

Or jojo, the saga of giorno giovanna, Araki told to be a great fan of Italy, but he wrong EVERYTHING about my country he added in his manga.
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Old 2012-11-21, 18:53   Link #687
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Originally Posted by Bonzo View Post
Yes, but In 30 seconds, Ougi said, zero used and betrayed us because he told lies to us.

So, zero becomed the enemy and then, Ougi, declaring war against lelouch made a right and honorable act (in the japan mantality).

For this I say japanese ideas about justice & co are very different, so, Cornelia was a bitch, but at last she's against lelouch, then a black knight ally, all okay, for them.

However, I assure you, we can't understand japan people, they're too much different by us, like ideas, mentality, character, etc....
Like they don't know nothing about europe or united states life style.
Ohgi and the others pulled the exact same act: not just against Lelouch, but also the UFN, in selling out to Schneizel. By that logic, they should have committed seppuku. Heck, there's a fanfic where Chiba does attempt seppuku.

Cornelia was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy too Easily Forgiven.

As for the Black Knights, they were a bunch of myopic Designated Heroes who lacked integrity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by faiz blaster View Post
This really isn't the place to talk about this, but I'll go ahead and try to explain one last time: Zero Requiem was a fitting end FOR LELOUCH HIMSELF.

Did he deserved to die? Maybe not.

But he also was no saint. For the sake of his own goals, he used people, deceived them, sacrificed their lives at his own discretion… in short, committed all sorts of evil acts. This is something that he himself recognized and tried to address somehow.

Having lost his sister and after finally settling the scores with his father, Lelouch no longer had lingering attachments to this world. With no other objective in life, he tried to make some sort of atonement for his sins. The method chosen was the Zero Requiem: to become a villain that everyone would hate and then die so that all past conflicts and resentments could be settled - buying a chance for peace in the future. He wavered when he discovered that Nunnally was still alive, but ultimately sticked to his decision due believing it was the right thing to do.

Arguably, that was not the best solution. Maybe there were better ways to resolve things in the eyes of the world. But it was nevertheless the best FOR LELOUCH HIMSELF. After committing many sins and causing suffering for many, in the end he put all his efforts into making amends and was finally allowed to die with the satisfaction that the world - along with everything that he held dear - had the chance to move towards a better future.

If that is not redemption, I don't know what is.
What he did during the rebellion was less evil and destructive than the Zero Requiem, and therein lies the irony of it all. While he was by no means innocent during the rebellion, at the very least Lelouch did a lot of stuff out of necessity, due to the tyrannical nature of Britannia. And he was able to set up a legitimate governing body in the UFN, finally setting up a legitimate challenge to Britannia for world liberation. With the Zero Requiem, Lelouch committed multiple assassinations of people who as C. C. notes, had a right to complain about their treatment, committed mass brainwashing of soldiers and used them as meat shields, blew up Mt. Fuji, likely depleting most of the world's most crucial energy supply, and in general, supposedly becoming the biggest tyrant in the world. And that's taking Charles and Schneizel into account. And unlike the rebellion, Lelouch had other options. This wasn't about redemption. He was killing more than he did then. This was about fulfilling a death wish following Nunnally's apparent demise, and the Black Knights' betrayal.

Last edited by azul120; 2012-11-21 at 19:04.
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Old 2012-11-21, 19:45   Link #688
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Actually considering what Bonzo said, Lelouch did redeem himself by destroying the evil that Britannia had rought oh the world, by becoming it.
And the Japsnese are all about saving face, so Oughi's betrayal in our eyes was perfectly acceptable in theirs.
Had this been done from a Western point of view, I highly doubt any if the Black Knights would have survived, Lelouch would have been executed for war crimes, and Britannia be like Germany during the Cold War=divided.
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Old 2012-11-21, 21:05   Link #689
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He could have done it with less destruction by other means.

Not to mention that the BKs committed treason, which is dishonorable in Japanese culture.
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Old 2012-11-21, 21:43   Link #690
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Well no, I do not think there was much other way. First of all let's look back to when Todou/Ohgi (the BKs) betrayed him. He literally had NOBODY anymore. C.C. gone (temporarily), Kallen and BKs gone, Nunnally (assumed at the time to be gone), exposed as the head of the black knights. He would not be able to return to the public without some kind of significant disguise and hiding. Even though he regained Suzaku and C.C., what other way could he have gone about this? He geassed the entire royal family to make them believe in him (when he assumed the throne). Once he did that, there was no turning back. He could have "fixed" Britannia, but that would still involve fighting/geassing everybody who tried to oppose him (or else that would just complicate everything)- don't forget, many people liked how Britannia was. The Sakuradite-Mt. Fuji plan was the only example of something that he could have changed. However, there wasn't much of a way to surprise a tactical genius like Schneizel without resorting to something as radical as that.

I implore you azul to come up with better, less destructive ways that he could have "saved the world"
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Old 2012-11-21, 21:50   Link #691
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He could have simply NOT done the throne takeover thing. Also, he could have tried looking straight for Schneizel, rather than allowing Damocles to emerge from the proverbial cocoon. Last but not least, he could have quite possibly come clean on everything with the BKs once and for all.
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Old 2012-11-22, 15:51   Link #692
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He could have simply NOT done the throne takeover thing. Also, he could have tried looking straight for Schneizel, rather than allowing Damocles to emerge from the proverbial cocoon. Last but not least, he could have quite possibly come clean on everything with the BKs once and for all.
i hope you do know he took the throne as a result of schneizel. At the time he defeated Charles lelouch had NO army other than himself, Sazuku and CC. Schneizel had his army, F.L.E.I.A, knight of rounds and their forces and the Black Knights out for blood.

But I suppose it is convenient for you to just ignore all those players, right? Just to add, given the way the black knights reacted the was NO WAY he could have convince them of anything again, I doubt you were thinking it through.
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Old 2012-11-22, 16:21   Link #693
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Lelouch, Suzaku and C.C., as epic a combination as they are, CANNOT take on Schneizel by themselves. Taking over Britannia allowed him to gather an army as as well as have the help of scientists such as Nina, Lloyd and Cecile. Without those resources, if he had managed to pull something off, that would have been even more farfetch'd . And against a person like Schneizel, it would have to be something extraordinary-even for Lelouch's high standards.
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Old 2012-11-24, 01:59   Link #694
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i hope you do know he took the throne as a result of schneizel. At the time he defeated Charles lelouch had NO army other than himself, Sazuku and CC. Schneizel had his army, F.L.E.I.A, knight of rounds and their forces and the Black Knights out for blood.

But I suppose it is convenient for you to just ignore all those players, right? Just to add, given the way the black knights reacted the was NO WAY he could have convince them of anything again, I doubt you were thinking it through.
They could have focused on going after Schneizel first. What you seem to be overlooking is how much harder he made it on himself by letting Schneizel get Damocles going, and also taking on everyone else at the same time.

Also, he could have put the onus of evil on Charles and Schneizel.

@shinigami99: Lelouch still hadn't yet given any explanation to the BKs about his geass. Remember how he was forced into lying about using them because of Schneizel earlier? Now he'd have another chance to come clean.
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Old 2012-11-24, 05:08   Link #695
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However, if you want a example of the bizarre way have the japanese people about justice, take a look at the manga "btoom"

Schoolgirls go with some male of the same high-school, they're all raped, excluding one success to fight and escape, she report everything to police and the boys are arrested.

Well, her schoolmates (the other girls too) and their parents made a unanimous petition to order the expulsion of that girl from the school and her parents taked distance from the daughter too.

Repudiated by everyone because she did the right thing, nobody wanted stay near to her for to cover their shame and the reputation.

For a japanese, the personal butt in the highest priority, I seen it personally during my last trip in Japan I did this November.
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Old 2012-12-08, 16:52   Link #696
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Spoiler for spoiler for ova 2:
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Old 2012-12-08, 16:53   Link #697
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Index, is that you?
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Old 2012-12-08, 18:13   Link #698
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Man this is so slow waiting for each episode. I hope they transition into some kind of 2-cour series after this project is finished.
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Old 2012-12-11, 01:32   Link #699
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Code Geass : Akito the Exiled
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Old 2012-12-11, 19:34   Link #700
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Not surprised that Kallen 2.0 is reduced to the new CG Fan service girl.
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