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Old 2012-11-21, 15:20   Link #41
peterim09
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The Yonkou with the Zoan army could be Kaidou, but it could also be Big Mam cuz remember when Big Mam doesnt get her sweets she sends the "Beasts of Big Mum's crew" to go and destroy the island.
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Old 2012-11-21, 16:16   Link #42
golgo13
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Originally Posted by peterim09 View Post
The Yonkou with the Zoan army could be Kaidou, but it could also be Big Mam cuz remember when Big Mam doesnt get her sweets she sends the "Beasts of Big Mum's crew" to go and destroy the island.
In another forum CCC commented on this:
Not to say that it makes your theory a bad one, but... I just checked the raw, and Tamago's word isn't literally "beasts." Beast isn't even a particularly good translation. It's more just like "really strong/hardy/stalwart men."
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God I hope not. Monet's pathetic rip off of Aokiji's Ice powers were already bad enough, but a rip off for Luffys powers would be boring...at least for Luffy to figjt, Zoro though...
Heh it would be pretty cliche

Last edited by golgo13; 2012-11-21 at 16:18. Reason: reply
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Old 2012-11-21, 16:24   Link #43
The Small One
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I wonder if the Yonkou with the Zoan army is the one Law was plotting against, or if he had another one in mind.
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Old 2012-11-21, 20:19   Link #44
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BTW, I know I'm kinda late on this, but the main reason why I doubt Big Mom being the emperor with the zoan army is because she just doesn't strike me as the type of person who's obsessed with absolute power. She just seems to be some grotesque monster with an eternal sweet tooth. I mean, just look at how she refused Luffy's offer to give her Neptune's treasure just because she couldn't eat it!



That being said, even if the captain herself isn't interested in the artificial fruits, that may not necessarily mean her CREW isn't. After all, we saw Pekoms and the egg guy watching Caesar's broadcast of the weapon demonstration, did we not? Also notice that they took the king's treasure with them anyway despite their captain refusing it. Heck, Pekoms' turtle zoan could even be one of those Smile fruits! So I guess my point is that I COULD see Big Mom's crew being the beastman army if she allows those guys to act on their own interests (I guess as long as it results in more confectionery treats for her). Otherwise, I still have my doubts. So for the moment, my money is still on Kaidou being the Zoo Emperor, with Blackbeard as the runner-up choice (since he's apparently been hunting for DF powers anyway).....



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Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
Well, if they can create the fruits, they should have understood their mechanisms. Therefore they should also be able to change them, like removing the water/seastone weakness.
And with they I mean Ceasar and Vegapunk. (After all it was Vegapunk who started it with the fruit Momonosuke ate)




Thing is, that the fruits were supposed to be something rare and unique. I think somewhere in the beginning there was said, that there is only a total of 100 fruits at all.
So having a fruit equals 'beeing a guy who matters in this world'. Now it just becomes kind of normal. It's like the complete OP world is suddenly turned upside down.
Until know, the author more or less avoided the usual Shounen clichee of ever increasing powerlevels, but this seems like a step in this direction.


Oh, don't get me wrong, I believe I understand your argument well enough.... basically, you think that the introduction of "fake" devil fruits will cheapen the impact of the real ones, yes? If so, I totally get that! And under different circumstances, I might even agree with you. However, it's not like Oda ever really stated that it wasn't possible to replicate the fruit's powers (which we already had a hint of anyway with the Kumabot's lasers being based on Kizaru's). And it's pretty clear that the fruits were something that were heavily researched for a long time anyway.... if that weren't the case, there wouldn't be a devil fruit encyclopedia in existence, would there not? So why wouldn't people like CC and Vegapunk have at least a slight understanding of their mechanisms?




But with that being said, I think we shouldn't be quick to judge whether or not the Smiles are perfect or even something that's improved upon when compared to the real deal. Like for instance, is the Smile's power permanent? Temporary? Weak to the ocean/seastone as you pointed out? Are they stronger or weaker than their original counterparts? Until those particular questions are answered, I personally don't see a reason to believe that the Smiles, in any fashion, undermine the original devil fruits (especially since they're currently only restricted to zoan-types, anyway).....
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Old 2012-11-22, 00:45   Link #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
Until know, the author more or less avoided the usual Shounen clichee of ever increasing powerlevels, but this seems like a step in this direction.


If they are able to create Zoans, there shouldn't be much problems to create other types as well. It may just be a matter of time. And then we will have whole armies of Enel's or Akainus.
I think your jumping to conclusions. We do not know anything definitive about the artificial devils fruit. Your assumption is that this is a replication of existing devils fruits, but its quite plausible that the smile fruit doesn't grow naturally. If thats the case its not natural to assume they can simply replicate fruits that exist naturally.

We also do not know if the artificial devils fruits suffer from their own limitations? From the pictures in the manga I could easily see a scenario where those who consume the fruit, go into something similar to chopper's monster point and cannot revert back. That would make some-one an army of mind-less monsters. I think we saw some-examples of Zoan's that couldn't revert back during the break in Impel Down.
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Old 2012-11-22, 05:43   Link #46
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Not to mention it's pretty difficult for us, the readers, to figure out which rules science can and can't break.

For example, can Smiles replicate existing fruit effects?
Can Smiles replicate effects of other Smiles?

Because we know for normal devil fruits, only one instance of an ability can exist in the world at any one time.


You know it suddenly occurred to me. We have NEVER seen a tree that grows Devil Fruit have we?
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Old 2012-11-22, 09:25   Link #47
paradox13
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I honestly don't think Kaidou is the one with the Devil Fruit army. There are a few clues behind this. When Law went to convince Luffy of his plan, Luffy agreed as soon as he heard what Youkou he would be targeting. One can assume this is Big Mam, as he already has animosity with them

Secondly, Nami was there when the discussion took place. She didn't vocalize any objections; if luffy was planning to take on another Yonkou, she'd be off her head

Thirdly is the mysterious form of Pekoms. Perhaps artificial devil fruits have different properties than actual devil fruits, maybe they can coexist with two devil fruits. Hence why pekoms looked like a Lion (artifical devil fruit) as well as having turtle abilities (actual devil fruit). But thats just speculation. I think Kaidou's plot point will be behind the Mermaid Princess more than anything.
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Old 2012-11-22, 11:39   Link #48
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Thirdly is the mysterious form of Pekoms. Perhaps artificial devil fruits have different properties than actual devil fruits, maybe they can coexist with two devil fruits. Hence why pekoms looked like a Lion (artifical devil fruit) as well as having turtle abilities (actual devil fruit). But thats just speculation.

I dunno, Pekoms strikes me as being sort of like Bepo.... an actual talking furry whose appearance is actually unrelated to a fruit. I mean, we never had any prior indication that Bepo is/was human, and the fact that he showed interest in female bears rather than human women further leads me to believe that he's just a talking bear (unless he's a man with some bizarre bear fetish or something ).


But like I said in my last post, the main reason I don't suspect Charlotte is because she seems more interested in candy than creating a powerful beast army. But I guess I can some of her officers being interested in consolidating the crew's power with such forces, as long as they're able to keep Big Mama happy with their endless supplies of sweet, sweet candy.....
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Old 2012-11-22, 13:43   Link #49
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After reading many of the posts here Im starting to change my mind about Kaidou being the zoan army warlord because big mama has been been teased, she;s got beef withe Luffy and also the peakom's paradox but ultimately it would give the straw hats more incentive to take her down besides the struggle of fish-man candy.

In the end I'm not bothered who it is just as long as Luffy gets into a bad ass fight and kicks some ass because thats really all we want right? =)
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Old 2012-11-22, 14:52   Link #50
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There's one reason why Kaidou could have the Zoan army.

If he did, and Luffy ended up challenging him, Luffy would officially have the eyes of every single known villain on him.
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Old 2012-11-22, 16:54   Link #51
The Small One
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There's one reason why Kaidou could have the Zoan army.

If he did, and Luffy ended up challenging him, Luffy would officially have the eyes of every single known villain on him.
What makes you think that Kaidou could be considered a "villain"?
IMHO we know basically nothing about him. He could as well turn out to be an ally.

Considering that Luffy is already hostile with Big Mam and Blackbeard, it wouldn't actually be surprising if he got another friend with the Four Emperors besides Shanks.
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Old 2012-11-22, 16:59   Link #52
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Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
What makes you think that Kaidou could be considered a "villain"?
IMHO we know basically nothing about him. He could as well turn out to be an ally.

Considering that Luffy is already hostile with Big Mam and Blackbeard, it wouldn't actually be surprising if he got another friend with the Four Emperors besides Shanks.
Cause Shanks opposed him.
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Old 2012-11-23, 00:09   Link #53
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The fact that Shanks opposed him and that he tried to kill whitebeard.
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Old 2012-11-23, 01:27   Link #54
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The fact that Shanks opposed him and that he tried to kill whitebeard.
Not sure that he tried to kill Whitebeard, but he did kill off Moria's entire crew.

Now if that isn't vicious I don't know what is.
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Old 2012-11-23, 03:03   Link #55
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^I can look over that part, I mean hell, Gold Roger did the same thing.
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Old 2012-11-23, 03:44   Link #56
The Small One
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The fact that Shanks opposed him and that he tried to kill whitebeard.
IIRC he didn't try to kill whitebeard, but instead he tried to stop him from going to MF. It was actually correct to try and stop whitebeard, since he wouldn't have died and the balance of power wouldn't have been shaken, if he didn't go for Ace.

To me it looks like Kaido did the right thing. And since we don't know what motives he had for his doing, he could turn out as a villain as well as an ally. So IMHO we still have no idea what kind of position he will take regarding the Straw-Hats.
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Old 2012-11-23, 06:33   Link #57
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We don't need another Yonkou as SH ally.

They already have tons of both ex and present Shichibukai, An ex-admiral, high members of revolutionaries, multiple kingdoms, one Yonkou, former Whitebeard pirates, all as friends or potential allies.

We need good quality villains, and Kaidou being yet another ally would be very anti-climactic.

I can see being good terms with Big Mam AFTER massive conflict and eventual defeat though.
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Old 2012-11-23, 07:07   Link #58
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^Personally, I still expect Shanks and Luffy to fight one day. They are certainly allies of sorts, but I have also always seen them as rivals of sorts as well (more so on Luffy's end).

That being said, I vastly prefer Kaidou as a villian as well. He has cast such a sinister presence over the series, it's hard to imagine him as an ally.
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Old 2012-11-23, 10:51   Link #59
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I dunno, Pekoms strikes me as being sort of like Bepo.... an actual talking furry whose appearance is actually unrelated to a fruit. I mean, we never had any prior indication that Bepo is/was human, and the fact that he showed interest in female bears rather than human women further leads me to believe that he's just a talking bear (unless he's a man with some bizarre bear fetish or something ).


But like I said in my last post, the main reason I don't suspect Charlotte is because she seems more interested in candy than creating a powerful beast army. But I guess I can some of her officers being interested in consolidating the crew's power with such forces, as long as they're able to keep Big Mama happy with their endless supplies of sweet, sweet candy.....
Also as you pointed out,the smiles already existed before the skip(before BB became an emperor),so whatever BB's relation to the smiles right now,he is not the one who raised the army.

I'm with you on Big Mom not being the one too,she cares for candy more than anything else,really doubt she's the one in charge of the army.
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Old 2012-11-23, 11:33   Link #60
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I do not think a fight between Luffy and Shanks is unthinkable. But it would be a fight between rivals, rather than between enemies.
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