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Old 2012-11-21, 17:06   Link #2741
CJ_Walker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Like for all the flack Fam of the silver wing got for not living up to its predecessor and having "moeblob heroines" at least the plot made sense and the characters were developed normally. Thats at least meeting basic standards.
This THis THIS THiS THISSSISISI

I absolutely Hated fam when it came out and after it was finished, I mean HATED with a passion, but that show pales in comparison to whatever happened with the retardedness of AO, I was shocked that bones could do worse than that, how they could mess up a story that was already good! The only thing I can think of is that, the original really left not much room for more conflict (which you kinda need in a series) so they had to make one up and really couldnt think of one and failed horribly.

I mean the info dump at the end of AOs sister dying, thus setting the whole show in motion felt like they just threw that in there because they couldnt think of anything else.

and the whole Okinawa thing. . .FFS ANIME, If you cant do politics right, STOP PUTTING IT IN YOUR SHOWS. It's like they spit on three races of peoples issues with that place (chinese, Japanese, and the okinawans. . .read up on the history and the current situation to understand what I mean) that shit was just bad. . .and the retarded military dude. . .he did all that shit and it went no where. . .

no more, I'm done. I wish I didn thave to overthink stuff I watch, I'm too old and know too much. if I were younger and less knowledgeable about the world, and how narratives are suppsoed to be presented, writer etc. . I probably could have enjoyed it. . . .naah this show is shit.
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Old 2012-11-21, 17:36   Link #2742
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Originally Posted by Joe_fh View Post
Introduce things you know the audience would expect to see but involve them in a way that has far less impact than the audience expected. It's of course not something everyone can enjoy.


Of course you might argue that it's not the same since you already know the story but to be honest it feels very similar. They were introduced to confuse the viewers and keep them guessing because they open a door to a lot of things that you'd expect to see next and you feel like you should. Again you might argue that that's pointless because you're just trying to make the story more interesting when it's actually the same since those things don't have that huge of an impact. But hey, everyone enjoys different things.


On a side not I honestly felt that the show could have been so much more but I still enjoyed it a lot anyway.
The problem with using theEND as a head fake is that by introducing it at all, the series raises the question "where did it come from"? It looks to be the same as the version at the end of E7. Unfortunately that one was destroyed. So does this mean that what we saw occur in E7 was changed somehow? That the 50 episodes I watched of the series never happened? That's a pretty big FU to the audience just to "keep you guessing" and serves mostly to show a lack of appreciation and fidelity to the E7 universe on the part of those involved with AO. Not surprising then that AO then goes on to destroy the themes so central to the original.
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Old 2012-11-21, 17:37   Link #2743
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I know this is a bit late, but I just read that the show was written by Sho Aikawa who was outright infamous in the 80's for his atrociously nonsensical and mean-spirited OVA's that made almost no sense and ended before anything resembling a plot could even get started. It seems like he's gone back to his unfortunate bad habits of old with Ao after seemingly straightening out with FMA, but it makes so much more sense now just what went wrong now that I know for sure who wrote this and what the bulk of his work has been like. Two words....Angel Cop.

Whenever I've talked about 80's pornoviolence Ovas and how sketchy and poor quality the OVA seen was back in the day, whenever you see a segment on ANN talking about Manga Entertainment and their filling the market with "anime for Adults"...this guys work is amongst the most often cited. Series like Urotsukidoji, Violence Jack, Wrath of the Ninja, Blood Reign, Genocyber, Hades Project Zeorymer....holy fuck it all makes so much sense now it's not even funny. Now I basically even know why "Truth" as well.....

Incidentally episode 1-3 were all written by one writer Kakuto Takeyoshi who did the series composition and who never did another episode after those three which also explains a hell of a lot. Altogether the show had 6 writers with Sho Aikawa doing the bulk of them at 13 that I know...most of them amongst what I found to be the worst episodes in the series.

Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2012-11-21 at 17:56.
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Old 2012-11-21, 17:51   Link #2744
Master Chibi
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
I know this is a bit late, but I just read that the show was written by Sho Aikawa who was outright infamous in the 80's for his atrociously nonsensical and mean-spirited OVA's that made almost no sense and ended before anything resembling a plot could even get started. It seems like he's gone back to his unfortunate bad habits of old with Ao after seemingly straightening out with FMA, but it makes so much more sense now just what went wrong now that I know for sure who wrote this and what the bulk of his work has been like. Two words....Angel Cop.

Whenever I've talked about 80's pornoviolence Ovas and how sketchy and poor quality the OVA seen was back in the day, whenever you see a segment on ANN talking about Manga Entertainment and their filling the market with anime for Adults...this guys work is amongst the most often cited. Series like Urotsukidoji, Violence Jack, Wrath of the Ninja, Blood Reign, Genocyber, Hades Project Zeorymer....holy fuck it all makes so much sense now it's not even funny. Now I basically even know why "Truth" as well.....
He did the first run of Full Metal Alchemist, didn't he?

And Nadesico, though I suppose that would explain the fucking ending.

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Originally Posted by Sinestra View Post
please dont say that Chibi, i just a cold chill up my spine
Sorry, just getting that same vibe lol
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Old 2012-11-21, 17:59   Link #2745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Chibi View Post
He did the first run of Full Metal Alchemist, didn't he?

And Nadesico, though I suppose that would explain the fucking ending.



Sorry, just getting that same vibe lol
Believe me you're very fortunate if Nadesico and FMA are your sole frames of reference for this guys body of work. We might have actually gotten off easy here as this is somewhere in the middle quality wise in terms of his overall body of work.
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Old 2012-11-21, 18:23   Link #2746
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Nadesico's ending was kind of appropriate for it, though. Unless you mean Prince of Darkness, then yeah, totally.
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Old 2012-11-21, 18:37   Link #2747
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Well Nadesico's problem was that it stretched itself across that stupid Saturn game and something else I think before we got Prince of Darkness.
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Old 2012-11-21, 18:43   Link #2748
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That's interesting background there Kaioshin-sama. I really only know Aikawa for writing Un-Go, which I was a big fan of, and wasn't aware he had a whole earlier career writing *those* OVAs.

Despite feeling like it makes things make more sense, I'm actually even more confused now than I was before, because looking at the episodes he's credited for writing in Ao he actually did all the episodes I thought were the good episodes (other than those first episodes, that is), as well as some of the worst episodes. I think I'm just going to give up on trying to understand.
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Old 2012-11-21, 18:49   Link #2749
Joe_fh
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Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
The problem with using theEND as a head fake is that by introducing it at all, the series raises the question "where did it come from"? It looks to be the same as the version at the end of E7. Unfortunately that one was destroyed. So does this mean that what we saw occur in E7 was changed somehow? That the 50 episodes I watched of the series never happened? That's a pretty big FU to the audience just to "keep you guessing" and serves mostly to show a lack of appreciation and fidelity to the E7 universe on the part of those involved with AO. Not surprising then that AO then goes on to destroy the themes so central to the original.
I get your point about theEND being there at all. Honestly the first time I watched I went "wait what" since the whole time travelling thing was implied to have started after the events in the original. So I decided to watch the episode again (to be honest it was because 23 and 24 were taking so long) and after that I looked at it and realised there was something off.

In the original, by the time theEND "awoke completely" it was already different. Didn't have those point things on shoulders, claws were out and so on. Sure those could be replaced if you knew what the original looked like which they couldn't (not sure about the shoulder parts in the first place though since they didn't look damaged when it evolved).
So it looked like the regular theEND (the black one) but with the colours of the "evolved" one.

It can be viewed as tribute to the original for people who paid attention to details but it doesn't really fit well with everything.
I personally decided that it's not the theEND and dismissed it completely but now that you bring it up I guess some people would be bugged by it a lot because it doesn't fit in at all.


It's also clear that the original series did happen or at least some of it. But hey, the Nirvash showed up, there was the Mark II and the one Renton was piloting for a total of 3, 2 of which had archtypes. So even from early on there was something weird about this whole thing. The world was way more destroyed than it should have been so you might as well think of it as sequel but not exactly to the original but to something set in a parallel universe.

Oh and it doesn't seem to be the case for most of you but I though the time travel thing was closed off pretty well considering how weird it was at one point.

And different writers would explain why it started to go in one direction and then turned to another, keeping the first but not focusing on it nearly as much as in previous episodes. Just keeping it alive.

To sum up it felt like it tried to do too much by going in different directions that due to the limited number of episodes didn't have time to develop and thus were cut down to very basic things. Could have been so much more and way better.
Still enjoyed it.
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Old 2012-11-21, 23:08   Link #2750
KeithKurogane
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*Watched the Final Episode*
Ugh... why did I felt that I've been punched in the tummy?
And also... My fantasy of a Fleur x Ao ship is been shattered! To Pieces!
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Old 2012-11-21, 23:56   Link #2751
Shinji103
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Series like Urotsukidoji, Violence Jack, Wrath of the Ninja, Blood Reign, Genocyber, Hades Project Zeorymer....holy fuck it all makes so much sense now it's not even funny.
Did you just diss Zeorymer? Zeorymer was awesome.
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Old 2012-11-21, 23:59   Link #2752
Myssa Rei
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Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
Did you just diss Zeorymer? Zeorymer was awesome. And Masaki Kihara would like a word with you.
Yes, but do recall it just... ended. Just like that.
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Old 2012-11-22, 04:13   Link #2753
Master Chibi
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You know what the best part of this series is?

Thanks all to this time travel nonsense, TECHNICALLY after it's all said and done this anime never actually happened.

Hahahahaha
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Old 2012-11-22, 06:34   Link #2754
Joe_fh
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Originally Posted by Master Chibi View Post
You know what the best part of this series is?

Thanks all to this time travel nonsense, TECHNICALLY after it's all said and done this anime never actually happened.

Hahahahaha
Just curious, why did you consider it to be nonsense?

It's not something they just introduced at the end and it's what attached it to the original (or more likely a parallel universe to the original)

Last edited by Joe_fh; 2012-11-22 at 07:24. Reason: spelling
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Old 2012-11-22, 07:00   Link #2755
CJ_Walker
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Originally Posted by Master Chibi View Post
You know what the best part of this series is?

Thanks all to this time travel nonsense, TECHNICALLY after it's all said and done this anime never actually happened.

Hahahahaha
Funny that you mention that, now I know why people always tend to groan when there is even the slight possibility of time travel being a main plot element.

I remember all the people that were groaning that steins gate had time travel. . .I didn;t know why at the time since I like time travel in general, but. . .after watching this show, I totally understand why now.
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Old 2012-11-22, 07:26   Link #2756
ttdestroy
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*sigh* I feel like another 24 episodes starting from the end of ep. 24 would've been good.

They seemed to hit a stride with the last two eps. Gimme 2 more cours, answer the questions you asked, and reunite the Thurston family. I don't know how many of you watched E7 back when it first premiered, but AO followed the same story trajectory, they just seem to have forgotten the second half. I defy any of you in your right minds to say E7 was a good series in the first 24 eps.

/rant
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Old 2012-11-22, 07:39   Link #2757
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Here is what got from the last two episodes.

The Scubs that left the E7 World found this universe without Scubs in 12006. Thing is they were considered a threat and Secrets came to be. Renton is being vague on that but likely this version of humanity never had the problem leading to exodus in the E7 World's history. Thus more advanced.

Problem is with the Scub time traveling in this universe it created a paradox. Secrets know their function but forgot their very origins.

Truth being infected by Scub and absorbed by an archetype made him an archetype and made him a talkative version of Nirvash. The original Nirvash Neo was mechanical turned to an archetype. Some reality warping was involved with the Quartz Gun.

There is no guarantee the AO World reverted to its original course. Also something was happening with the Third Engine with Fleur. I'm not sure but there is a possibility she escaped the time alterations.
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Old 2012-11-22, 09:06   Link #2758
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I initially feel very depressed after watching the two episodes, but after a while, when I consider carefully, in a way, it is a good ending, albeit a bittersweet one for Ao. I am divided about this finale. Guess I need a couple more days to take a stance-to love or to hate it.
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Old 2012-11-22, 10:23   Link #2759
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Originally Posted by Joe_fh View Post
Maybe that was the point? Introduce things you know the audience would expect to see but involve them in a way that has far less impact than the audience expected. It's of course not something everyone can enjoy.
You have to be extremely careful in betraying your audience's expectations.
Especially if it's not clear whether it's a conscious subversion or plain bad writing ("I wrote myself in a corner with this plot development, so I'll just drop it").

I think that many of AO's so-called subversions (theEnd, Elena's identity, the Third Engine) are just abandoned plot threads.

P.S. An author that often (ab)uses subversion is Nisio Isin. The most egregious example is Katanagatari episode 4. Let it be known that after that episode I was so enraged that I insta-dropped the series. As I said, subversion is a double-edged sword...
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Old 2012-11-22, 12:10   Link #2760
Kaioshin Sama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ_Walker View Post
Funny that you mention that, now I know why people always tend to groan when there is even the slight possibility of time travel being a main plot element.

I remember all the people that were groaning that steins gate had time travel. . .I didn;t know why at the time since I like time travel in general, but. . .after watching this show, I totally understand why now.
Yeah but Steins:Gate actually used it's time travel mechanic to it's advantage and it played a key point in developing pretty much every character. I liked the time travel mechanic there even if it could be confusing at times. Here it just often led to dropped plot points.

Subversion didn't really work to Eureka Seven's advantage and I think created a lot of it's issues with making sense and having well developed characters. You can't just have a show where you leave the viewer in the dark for so long and then go, "okay this is how things are...no actually they're this way"....actually no really they are the first way only a little different.....actually none of that matters cause for serious real they're actually this way" cause eventually you're just going to make them stop taking things at face value. It felt like this show was always changing the rules and characterizations of some of the characters as they went along, specifically Elena, Truth and Naru who by the end I felt no attachment or intrigue from whatsoever because in particular they could apparently be anything the plot wanted them to at any point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinji103 View Post
Did you just diss Zeorymer? Zeorymer was awesome.
Don't let the SRW appearance fool you, Zeorymer is something best left forgotten to the annals of history. Zeorymer is a poorly animated go nowhere mess of four episodes of a robot punching it's fists together and making things explode that basically just ends and wastes your time. It's textbook Aikawa schlock in the worst ways from being a 4 episode OVA based on a pornoviolence manga with no way or even attempt to accomplish anything meaningful or exciting, to there being no real identifiable characters, to the repetitiveness of main character refusing to do anything then his split personality taking over to be evil and finish the job to the weird world hating/destroying power fantasy thing that seems to be creeping below the surface of much of his work in the 80's. It's just bad.

Last edited by Kaioshin Sama; 2012-11-22 at 12:30. Reason: Forgot Zeorymer was 4 episodes, but man does it ever feel like 2
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