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Old 2012-11-13, 13:54   Link #101
Metaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
No, you don't. Since you have no idea why haters watch shows, how can you say that there is a balance if you are not open to the opinions of the haters?
I find it pretty difficult to accept the opinion of someone who actively tries to hate. If someone reasonably points out that "this is completely bad", then I'll be more likely to understand it.


Quote:
So you accept criticism but at the same time you don't accept pure hatred which can be accompanied with criticism...
Active pure hatred.

Look, let me clear something up: I don't like the idea of hate. It just doesn't work for me. We all dislike things, sure. That's how it is... But when you say "hate"... Man, I dunno, it just sounds... wrong to me. Something doesn't feel right. Something in my head clicks that makes me think "whoa, what? Really?"

Quote:
Where do you get the idea that they are trying to feel smarter? There could be many other reasons for continuing a serie that they don't like, but to feel "superior" over the people who do like that serie is not one of them unless it's a pure troll or a "snob"
I dunno. Touché.
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Old 2012-11-13, 14:03   Link #102
hyl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaler View Post
I find it pretty difficult to accept the opinion of someone who actively tries to hate. If someone reasonably points out that "this is completely bad", then I'll be more likely to understand it.

Active pure hatred.
I have no idea how you associate hatred with not being constructive. Like i "hate" most of the shounen jump manga that i keep reading weekly for many reasons like the story has been dragging on too long, stupid or too obvious plot twists etc.
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Old 2012-11-13, 14:10   Link #103
Metaler
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Originally Posted by hyl View Post
I have no idea how you associate hatred with not being constructive. Like i "hate" most of the shounen jump manga that i keep reading weekly for many reasons like the story has been dragging on too long, stupid or too obvious plot twists etc.
When you hate something, you're kind of implying that you're not paying attention to its positive aspects, that you are actively looking for something to hate on. There's no inbetween. I find it difficult to take this kind of person's opinion seriously.

I mean, why do you keep reading something you hate? Don't you hate it? Then what's the point? I mean, we all have our reasons and everything, but yeah...

EDIT: Take a big swig for every "I mean" I write. Good luck!
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Last edited by Metaler; 2012-11-14 at 23:37.
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Old 2012-11-13, 14:18   Link #104
hyl
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Originally Posted by Metaler View Post
When you hate something, you're kind of implying that you're not paying attention to its positive aspects, that you are actively looking for something to hate on. There's no inbetween. I find it difficult to take this kind of person's opinion seriously.

I mean, why do you keep reading something you hate? Don't you hate it? Then what's the point? I mean, we all have our reasons and everything, but yeah...
Yes, I am still reading manga's like one piece to look how it gets worse. Easy reasons for not dropping it are
- hardly wastes any time. Reading a chapter costs me less than 5 minutes
- routine, since it comes out at the same time together with other series which are bearable.
- the serie still some good moments, although in my opinion it has more bad moments. Manga's like Naruto, bleach and one piece all had potential to do alot more after their time skip, instead we get treated with (in my opinion) a similar experience before the timeskip.
- already invested lots of time (eventhough reading one chapter did not cost much time, i have been reading most of these chapters from the very beginning. Thus I did "invest" myself in it for many years)
- a reason that people already mentioned: being a completionist. Especially since some series are starting to look that they are ending (Naruto, bleach and the recently ended Reborn)
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Old 2012-11-13, 14:27   Link #105
Metaler
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Originally Posted by hyl View Post
Yes, I am still reading manga's like one piece to look how it gets worse. Easy reasons for not dropping it are
- hardly wastes any time. Reading a chapter costs me less than 5 minutes
- routine, since it comes out at the same time together with other series which are bearable.
- the serie still some good moments, although in my opinion it has more bad moments. Manga's like Naruto, bleach and one piece all had potential to do alot more after their time skip, instead we get treated with (in my opinion) a similar experience before the timeskip.
- already invested lots of time (eventhough reading one chapter did not cost much time, i have been reading most of these chapters from the very beginning. Thus I did "invest" myself in it for many years)
- a reason that people already mentioned: being a completionist. Especially since some series are starting to look that they are ending (Naruto, bleach and the recently ended Reborn)
THAT. That's what I'm talking. You're being reasonable there. You're not saying "this is awful and anyone who likes this should throw themselves off a building". You accept the fact that even something ugly has some good parts, AND you're not sounding offensive to the fans of the work. This is what I'm talking about: to dislike something without being hostile towards its fans. Of course, you can be like this even if the work in question is completely awful.

And hell, like I said before, even if someone comes up like a big badass and says "this is terrible and you're an idiot for liking it", I still think you should turn up to them and say "well, fuck it, I still like it"... Of course, without turning a blind eye to its flaws, but yeah. I understand that we can't simply change how people are, so the best we can do is not let them get us down.
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Old 2012-11-13, 14:37   Link #106
hyl
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Originally Posted by Metaler View Post
THAT. That's what I'm talking. You're being reasonable there. You're not saying "this is awful and anyone who likes this should throw themselves off a building". You accept the fact that even something ugly has some good parts, AND you're not sounding offensive to the fans of the work. This is what I'm talking about: to dislike something without being hostile towards its fans. Of course, you can be like this even if the work in question is completely awful.

And hell, like I said before, even if someone comes up like a big badass and says "this is terrible and you're an idiot for liking it", I still think you should turn up to them and say "well, fuck it, I still like it"... Of course, without turning a blind eye to its flaws, but yeah. I understand that we can't simply change how people are, so the best we can do is not let them get us down.
In all fairness, i haven't seen too many people in this forum who keep watching a show that they hate unreasonably unlike some people from 2chan.

While i might be reasonable to admit that even my hated series still have (or rather had) some good qualities, there are people who keep reading/watching series who don't think that those series have any good moments (or atleast not anymore) just to see how that "wreck" will end.

I hate movies series like Saw, Final Destination, Butterfly Effect and Paranormal Activity now due to the change in direction over years. Yet i still go the cinema to watch new installments for the sole reason of criticizing them , because i know they won't get be good. But at the same time, i also hope that my expectations are not true and those movies will do better.

While you don't think doing such a thing is "amusing", there are other things in this world that may not look amusing to yourself but they are for other people.

Last edited by hyl; 2012-11-13 at 14:51.
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Old 2012-11-13, 19:09   Link #107
Marcus H.
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Quote:
In all fairness, i haven't seen too many people in this forum who keep watching a show that they hate unreasonably unlike some people from 2chan.
In the past? Yes, there are. But they're no longer here to say anything about it.
But I think the people considered to be "haters" in this forum have their own reasons, which is based on certain elements of the show, not because it's "moeshit" or anything.

And Metaler, have you been to other forums as well? From what I've experienced myself, (and disregarding 4chan's /a/, which can be completely tame or an utter shitstorm at the same time,) there are some that may breed the "stop liking what I hate" kind of people.
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Old 2012-11-13, 19:51   Link #108
Xion Valkyrie
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Everyone has a different reason for hating on anime other people like. Even the 'rabid' group of haters have different reasons to hate on particular anime. I'm sure there's quite a few people who hate for the same reason trolls troll. They like to get people riled up and hating on something other people like it's one of the easiest ways to do.

Then there's people who hate on popular series because they don't like the direction that popular anime is taking. They try to convince other people that their viewpoint is correct in the hopes of getting what they perceive to be 'better' anime more appeal. Ie, they feel it's their job to be the stewards of the anime market.

There are also people who just love to argue. They might actually like the anime but they'll see some people arguing about it and join in, often writing essays with point by point analysis on the flaws because they breaking things down like that. They're usually looking for people to offer equally well researched counter points but often their opponents just dismiss them as trolls or haters and that sometimes gets them riled up so that they do end up becoming a hater or a troll.
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Old 2012-11-13, 21:02   Link #109
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
I hate movies series like Saw, Final Destination, Butterfly Effect and Paranormal Activity now due to the change in direction over years. Yet i still go the cinema to watch new installments for the sole reason of criticizing them , because i know they won't get be good. But at the same time, i also hope that my expectations are not true and those movies will do better.
Wait a minute. Butterfly Effect had sequels which are played in the cinemas??

I thought those are just crappy DTV sequels.
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Old 2012-11-14, 07:33   Link #110
hyl
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Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor View Post
Wait a minute. Butterfly Effect had sequels which are played in the cinemas??

I thought those are just crappy DTV sequels.
Just meant to say that i wouldn't hesitate to watch the sequels of the mentioned movie series despite being crappy
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Old 2012-11-14, 16:41   Link #111
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There are a lot of people who simply like to discuss anime. It's sometimes more amusing to talk about something to share experiences with like minded folk. When it comes to an anime that's not that great, then discussing it becomes even more important. People sharing uniform opinions makes for boring discussion, whether it's infinite praise or infinite rage. I think this is a legitimate reason given the increasing role of internet in our lives and the very reason forums exist.

Furthermore, meeting diametricaly opposed viewpoints helps sharpen and strengthen one's own beliefs and analytical skill. Is your perception of the world shattered by someone else's? Perhaps they weren't that clear in the first place. But I'll repeat my pro tip: If one debates to "win" aka convince the other side that they are wrong, then you're doing it wrong. It was never about making people change their mind because that operates under the faulty assumption that their side is invalid to begin with. What you are here to do is express and present your ideas to be scrutinized by the folks on the fence. Sometimes people change their minds, but that's just a side effect, not a goal.

Indeed there's certain series (Endless Eight- Haruhi, Nisemonogatari, Hana Saku Iroha, and Guilty Crown) which I would have never gotten far on my own but the large hoopla surrounding the issue is entertaining. The Endless Eight controversy was the biggest, since that discussion is what caused me to post more on this site even though I thought it was absolute garbage. Oh, and it got better too, so there's no reason for me to leave.

For the most part, I do quit shows when I feel it's too late. I dropped Guilty Crown at the halfway mark because there was just nothing for me to say besides the same stuff, and thus continuing on just leaves me with absolutely nothing of benefit to anyone for me to continue. At this point I just declare myself incompatible with the show's form of storytelling.
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Old 2012-11-14, 21:27   Link #112
ForwardUntoDawn
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Furthermore, meeting diametricaly [sic] opposed viewpoints helps sharpen and strengthen one's own beliefs and analytical skill. Is your perception of the world shattered by someone else's? Perhaps they weren't that clear in the first place. But I'll repeat my pro tip: If one debates to "win" aka convince the other side that they are wrong, then you're doing it wrong. It was never about making people change their mind because that operates under the faulty assumption that their side is invalid to begin with. What you are here to do is express and present your ideas to be scrutinized by the folks on the fence. Sometimes people change their minds, but that's just a side effect, not a goal.
It is precisely a well-reasoned argument (whether it be a discussion about why something is worthwhile or not) that fence-sitters like me usually seek when it comes to deciding for myself whether or not something is worthwhile. If a 'hater' has presented a reasonable explanation as to why something is disappointing, I will have considered my time to be saved (e.g. Endless Eight was something I watched only the last episode of). That said, if the explanation supplied is not, I will probably seek a second opinion because I wouldn't be able to make a reasonable assessment from reading said explanation alone. A while back, I heard negative assessments being passed concerning the K-On! Movie for lacking cultural depth, but reading the reviews in question carefully did not reveal how the movie was lacking depth. I decided to read other reviews, found that most people believed the opposite was true, picked up the movie myself and found that (in this case) the majority of the reviewers were correct over the one negative review. In other words, making a claim is not sufficient to sway my opinion, but using evidence to back a claim certainly may make an argument more persuasive. Consider the following:

Quote:
The humour in this series is not particularly strong, and may be inconsistent at times.
The passage clearly depicts a negative aspect (and that, it succeeds at doing), but whether or not something is funny is dependent on the viewer. In the context of the review, the writer does not really elaborate on how the humour is lacking. With this in mind, I'm not sure if the reviewer is making their assessment from their interpretation, or whether or not they're trying to incite a reaction. It's easy to make assessments (both good and bad), but I prefer seeing a little more than that Now consider this:

Quote:
The humour in this series is not particularly strong, and may be inconsistent at times. For instance, some characters regularly engage in slapstick that is only funny in certain contexts, and will, on other occasions, feel completely out of place: this can be seen in some scenes, where...
These are hypothetical, so I have not mentioned any particular series, but I myself prefer the second variant simply because that concretely gives me an idea of what's going on, what the reviewer is saying and ultimately, if I felt so inclined, I may check it out myself. Yes, it's a little longer, but the extra stuff shows me A) why the author makes such a claim and B) the author respects opinion enough to defend it with evidence. Good hate explains something as well as pointing it out, while bad hate simply throws something out there in the hopes of inciting reaction.
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Old 2012-11-15, 14:38   Link #113
I Fail at Life
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They watch the show...they may hate or don't like, so they can say they watched it, and know what their talking about.

They watch it, so they will know all about (in regards, and why it sucks) to the show they hate. Just like some people watch a show to see what all the talk is about.
I mean, you don't want your arguments to be baseless and just go by what other people say, because you haven't seen it. So that's basically the reasoning or so I would think.

You don't want to be the "I haven't seen it, but I just know it suck's", person. <----- You really gonna debate... with someone like this?

Not me.

Last edited by I Fail at Life; 2012-11-15 at 14:41. Reason: grammar error
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Old 2012-11-17, 06:38   Link #114
seiftis
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I usually watch shows on neutral basis, give a few eps and decide whether I will continue or not. Once I can't stand them, I stopped watching, as simple as that. No matter whether they're the popular shows, etc (including bleach, little busters or any other).
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Old 2012-11-17, 18:07   Link #115
Kameruka
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For some people, annoyance does beat boredom. No wonder some people deliberately watching bad shows.
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Old 2012-11-20, 18:30   Link #116
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For some people, annoyance does beat boredom. No wonder some people deliberately watching bad shows.
Exactly in my head too. Some people watch some bad shows for crap factor alone like School Days for example.
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Old 2012-11-22, 10:42   Link #117
ChainLegacy
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Unless it's being done for a specific purpose (like someone who reviews anime)... these people have way too much time on their hands. I can't even find the time to watch series I like sometimes... Look for a job, go out and exercise, pick up a new hobby, etc... Rather than spend time watching a show you don't like.
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Old 2012-11-22, 20:52   Link #118
Kameruka
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Originally Posted by NK_500 View Post
Exactly in my head too. Some people watch some bad shows for crap factor alone like School Days for example.
I prefer to use Musashi Gundoh as that analogy instead. While most people saw Musashi Gundoh at first time want to hate it but instead after finishing it, most of them ends up loving it. Much like "so bad, it's good". I think it also apply to School Days as well.
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Old 2012-12-12, 22:21   Link #119
tag1981
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I never spend anytime on shows I don't like. If I'm not liking it after 5 or 6 eps, I move on.

BUT....................

There are 2 current ones I'm forcing myself to continue. One Piece & Ghost In The Shell

OP isn't as good as I had hoped. Especially after hearing so many good things about it. GITS isn't like I thought it would be. And what it is hasn't really blown my mind like the films did. But I certainly don't waste my precious time by going out of my way to find the threads to bash on them.
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Old 2012-12-13, 00:50   Link #120
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Usually I will watch a show that "I don't like" because its very possible for my perception of the show to change through the series, so I always make it a rule of mine that what I start, I finish (hence, I am careful with what I do start but still). Its very possible to have a start to a show that you hate and you might not even like the characters, but it is possible for that to change by the end of the story.
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