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Old 2012-11-18, 12:57   Link #481
Join Date: Sep 2006
I am absolutely loving these backstory scenes, which I'm finding as interesting as the main story if not more. I'm looking forward to the inevitable conflict when Mashiro finds out about Yoshino and Aika (and I still suspect Yoshino knows more about Aika's death than he lets on).
I can't wait to see how all the threads tie together.

And I'm still loving that gorgeous soundtrack.
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Old 2012-11-18, 13:25   Link #482
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Does anyone else think Yoshino is the murderer?
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Old 2012-11-18, 14:58   Link #483
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At this point, I highly doubt Yoshino killed Aika. However, I still don't understand Yoshino completely and how much he really knows. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. He is probably the most interesting character because of this. Aika is definitely pulling an Aizen here; she clearly is playing both Mahiro and Yoshino but I wonder if she is doing this because she's bad. I'm not convinced yet that she's evil.
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Old 2012-11-19, 11:52   Link #484
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I thought it was made clear that Aika was killed by a mage from the mage clan?

As for why, my theory is that this is somehow related to the princess being alive and dead at the same time.
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Old 2012-11-20, 10:58   Link #485
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the title is call first kiss but where is the kiss? stopped by sunflowers?
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Old 2012-11-20, 11:57   Link #486
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Finally caught up, being several weeks late to the party!

Yoshino's definitely an interesting protagonist. He's got a lot going on under the surface, and doesn't give much away, and he's definitely not a mere follower of Mahiro's. I suppose it's possible that he's the murderer, but honestly, if there's that kind of savage twist, I think it's more likely that the murderer is Mahiro, perhaps out of some jealous impulse, and that it's been wiped from his mind.

Mostly, though, I'm just willing to sit back and enjoy the ride and the plot developments. Thus far, this series has been really well-paced in terms of dealing out mysteries/questions, information, and action; likewise, the characters are all far more than 2D cookie-cutter stereotypes, and it's all gorgeous-looking besides. It's pretty rare that I get this much pleasure out of a show merely from watching it.
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Old 2012-11-20, 20:56   Link #487
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Probably the most underrated series of the season so far
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Old 2012-11-22, 16:46   Link #488
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Pretty sure it followed manga to 100% this week, although they did go through the talk in little faster pace I'd say.
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Old 2012-11-22, 18:26   Link #489
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Episode 8..
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Old 2012-11-22, 19:37   Link #490
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Spoiler for ep. 8:

The meaning of things lies not in the things themselves, but in our attitude towards them.
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Old 2012-11-22, 19:49   Link #491
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Well, the explanation for Hakaze was about what you'd expect. At this point, I have to ask, how many episodes is this going to be? If it's just one season, I'm not seeing how they're going to wrap up all these threads in another 3-4 episodes.

Still curious how Aika plays into all of this. I have a hard time believing she was simply a pawn of fate to bring Mahiro to Hakaze's aid, though if the Tree of Genesis is really so powerful, setting events into motion to protect Hakaze, it begs the obvious question of, "Did Samon actually succeed in killing Hakaze?"

It's difficult to speculate how the Tree of Genesis could lean on fate to turn this situation into a positive for Hakaze, mainly because I'm still stumped at the limits and capabilities of magic in this show. She can make magical dolls to talk to people through, but can't just teleport?

Hakaze sends out a magical doll. Mahiro presumably finds it at least one year later if my understanding of the timeline is correct:

2 years ago, Hakaze stranded on island.
1 year ago, Aika dies.

It's interesting that Mahiro would find it at least a year later, since Hakaze has only had four months pass in her timeline. Samon made it sound like he was able to manipulate time based on the two dolls using magic to communicate to each other, but I must be interpreting that wrong, and Samon must have simply only needed the dolls to exist in the first place; no actual contact between Hakaze and Mahiro at all. In fact, it would seem likely that Samon "froze" Hakaze in time until someone DID pick up the second doll and started to talk to her, which would make it likely that it was 8 months after Aika's death that Mahiro and Hakaze "met". It even makes some logical sense in that time being frozen for Hakaze for a year and 8 months wouldn't break any "rules", since there was no outside contact during that time, so the vectorless property of time could be exploited to full tilt, until an outside contact was made, and to retain logic, the flow of time in Hakaze's "world" would have to march along at the same pace as that of the outside contact's. Pace, being the operative term.

So, is there a way for Hakaze (or the Tree) to use that logic to turn things around?

If I was a betting man, I'd say yes, as I seriously doubt Hakaze's story ends this early, especially with the way the plot likes to peel back layers.
It feels like years since they've been updated, btw.
Also, cake.
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Old 2012-11-22, 21:06   Link #492
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I suppose that clears up Hakaze's confusion on why the logic of the world would end Aika's life to lead Mahiro to her before she was even kidnapped: Hakaze was already on the island by the time Aika died. Hell, she may already have been dead herself.

From here there are several places they could go, but I'm satisfied that the answer is likely both logical and guessable within the framework of the world.
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Old 2012-11-22, 21:53   Link #493
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I think, the trick here is this: was Aika directly or indirectly killed by the Kusakabe? Does the spell attempt to trace the proximate cause of death, if there is no direct killer?

If indeed, Aika was indirectly killed by Kusakabe magic, then it may very well be that Hakaze is the indirect killer, even if in no way, shape or form, did Hakaze ever intend for such an outcome, or even knew Aika to begin with.
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Old 2012-11-22, 22:20   Link #494
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Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
I think, the trick here is this: was Aika directly or indirectly killed by the Kusakabe? Does the spell attempt to trace the proximate cause of death, if there is no direct killer?

If indeed, Aika was indirectly killed by Kusakabe magic, then it may very well be that Hakaze is the indirect killer, even if in no way, shape or form, did Hakaze ever intend for such an outcome, or even knew Aika to begin with.
Honestly, I'm a bit confused on the whole tracking the killer thing. I thought Hakaze had cast the spell which would lead Mahiro to the killer. And, even though we haven't seen that yellow trail since that episode, I've largely left it alone. But, here, it seems he needs Hakaze back in the "real" world, to show him the killer, which would mean I must have misinterpreted the whole tracking spell that was cast earlier (or it's just a fudge we're supposed to ignore).

I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm no longer sure if the reason Mahiro was heading to the tree was because that's where the killer was, or if he was just heading there to "free" Hakaze, so she could show him the killer.

I'd been assuming it was just a happy coincidence that both the trail to the killer and Hakaze's goals were in the same direction, and that the story would take the obvious (assuming there really was a trail, which-again-I'm now confused about whether there ever was) tack of making Hakaze out to be the killer, as the trail ends at her bones, or something equally lol.

After this episode, now I'm totally lost in that regards.
It feels like years since they've been updated, btw.
Also, cake.
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Old 2012-11-22, 23:22   Link #495
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Great episode as usual. I totally did not expect what they pulled on us. I think this series is 2-cour though, and as someone mentioned before, I highly doubt that this is the end of the road for Hakaze. I feel that there must be a way for her to come back. It does not really make sense why they would keep her bones though, but I guess that will be explained.

Aika was definitely involved here, but whether she knew everything and planned accordingly, or was merely a pawn on the chessboard remains to be seen. If she planned for everything, why did she pick Yoshino and Mahiro?

So many more questions too . Can't wait for next week's episode.
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Old 2012-11-22, 23:22   Link #496
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For something that could have happened in less than 5 episode, it took the Mary Sue 8 episode to get here....
But at last, base on the preview, finally Samon is going to break down and become wretched in pain. I am waiting for this for far too long.
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Old 2012-11-23, 00:46   Link #497
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Samon is one sick piece of work though. Floating around Hakaze's skeletal remains like that. Though on top of that I have to wonder if this guy is a pure idiot. How can he be doing all this if his safety net is dead? What's he going to do, communicate with magic with a ship two years in the past to bring in Hakaze?

In the end it's just a big argument based on theories. One theory the world is destroyed by the Tree of Genesis the other it's because they revived the Tree of Exodus. Depending on how pessimistic or optimistic you are one theory looks more right than the other. There is no way to tell which one of Hakaze or Samon is actually right here. I tend to lean with Hakaze since she wasn't the one who slaughtered entire cities based on a theory. Seems like Samon's group just wanted to feel proactive so they did something. He didn't want to feel like a "slave" to the Tree of Genesis, so this seemed like a good enough plan.

Regardless good job Samon. Just told the guy with a gun that could lead to pure destruction that there is no way to find out who killed Aika. Thus giving the person with little to lose in the first place nothing to lose by ending the world and guaranteeing the person who killed Aika dies in the process.

I just hope we can get live Hakaze into the present since otherwise all the girls in this series have been dead since before it started and that's just uncomfortable .
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Old 2012-11-23, 01:12   Link #498
Join Date: Oct 2004
At least, one crazy hot lady is still alive. Don't we forget Evangeline(Fraulein) Yamamoto. In German language, fraulein is an unmarried woman. So, some viewers describe Evangeline as "28 years old unemployed fraulein". This gal is my type.

Back to two main heroines, I still think they can survive if they want to.... I believe the tree of creation can save them, as long it follows the magic follows the logic. Magic logic magic...

Samon is getting more unlikable. In this episode, he talks too much. It's even more annoying that he leads the clan to betray the tree. They are suppose the followers of the tree. Instead, they use the tree's power and turn against it. Regardless, he's looks like a mere middle boss. The last boos could be no one. It cannot be the trees. As the current trend, Samon is going to enpower tree of destruction and destroy the world.

Even they use the term "magic", the world view is more like tradition Japanese ritual. Hakaze is like the crowned miko of the protective tree. There's no miko or priestess for destructive tree for the apparent reason. All its followers already killed each other. By the way, Hakaze's carved sandle phone can flow on the ocean for two years. It is hardly falling apart. It's somehow against the nature's logic.

I'm confused about the translation. Why they name <tree of beginning> as Tree of Genesis? Why they name <tree of zetsuen> as Tree of Exodus? If translators want to follow the Bible naming convention, shouldn't they name <tree of zetsuen>
as Tree of Apocalypse? The power of trees are creation and destruction. Maybe the process of creation leads to destruction and the process of destruction leads to creation?

I guess the studio has to show bones, since it's BONES....
流麗のヒステリア Hysteria of flowing beautifully
三つ腕のリヒティ Lichty of three arms
重剣のクロエ Chloe of giant sword
天啓のシスティーナ Sistina of Apocalypse
愛憎のロクサーヌ Roxanne of distinguished love and hate
万有のルテーシア Lutécia of everything
塵喰いのカサンドラ Cassandra of eating dust

Last edited by GundamZZ; 2012-11-23 at 01:54.
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Old 2012-11-23, 01:43   Link #499
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Well, while it was suspected, it's now confirmed that Hakaze has a Doll-Phone to the future. That's going to make things quite interesting. Especially given what we know about Aika's death. We do know she was killed by a member of the Kusaribe clan. Could it end up being Hakaze that actually has to kill her to start the chain of events? (i.e. they take the "hard time line" approach to the story device) Pure speculation, but that could explain why it was left so confusing for Hakaze back in ep 3(?).

Though we still only have Samon's word that its Hakaze's body. I'm still not completely sold on that point... or why showing a skeleton would be viewed as proof. (Maybe it's a Mage Clan thing?)

On the argument between Hakaze & Samon on the Trees, it's really a question of "control" of forces out of true human control. Samon and most of the Mage Clan would appear to take the route that they know they at least have some control of the outcome. Hakaze is in the "wait and see" camp. Neither side is really right, as they can't know exactly what (or when) the Tree of Genesis will revive. If it's many, many years into the future, the Tree of Genesis might actually only need a little "future tech" to do the job. Or it could wipe out much of humanity in the process. While Samon's side is taking the "knock it back for sleep for the time being" approach to avoid a complete unknown. To pay a price, now, that will be high but far less than the cost of the unknown price for the Tree of Genesis' revival. There's no clear cut answer, which makes great room for storytelling. Then again, Mahiro doesn't care one bit and just wants to take out whoever killed Aika.

It's so fun.
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Old 2012-11-23, 01:51   Link #500
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Hakaze who is dead in the future, has nothing to do with Hakaze in the past. Meeting Mahiro and Yoshino through the doll is just one possible timeline.

Now that Hakaze realizes help won't come, she must try to return by herself or she will be dead in two years.

If she finds a way to come back from the island and deal with Simon in her own timeline, Aika won't die.

From the preview, next week Mahiro is going to fight Yoshino, but they will figure out the solution.

They must save Hakaze in the past by getting the island location from Simon so that Hakaze in the past knows the direction to come ashore

Maybe she can use a little of magic to build a raft or swim her way back.

Well, that's what I hope she can do since she a mage and all.

Tom Hanks had no one but Willson, and he could build a raft by himself.

Last edited by TimeSkip; 2012-11-23 at 07:58.
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bones, gangan, magic, mystery, shounen, tragedy, zetsuen

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