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Old 2012-11-22, 19:39   Link #2781
Trajan
Six Shooter
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: USA
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by KleenexGhost View Post
Well to be fair. Ao wanted to make things right and he did make things right. I pretty much agree with the Random Curiosty review.
No, Truth was the one who wanted to make things "right" by returning the world to it's "true" timeline. Ao, on the other hand, argued that all timelines are "equally true" and that therefore, the current timeline has as much a right to existence as the "true" timeline. This difference is the reason Truth exists in the plot, and it was the whole reason Ao refused to fire the quartz gun.

Until the last five minutes that it, when Ao abandons his principles and fires the quartz gun, changing reality and possibly killing Elena (no Eureka to save her) and Fleur (Daddy chooses Mommy this time around) and who knows who else, all so that his parents could have a happy ending. "Someone or something must be sacrificed" indeed!

And let's not forget that Elena straight up murdered Miller, and no one anywhere seemed to care.
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Old 2012-11-22, 20:12   Link #2782
ReddyRedWolf
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Time Travel paradoxes give me a headache.

We don't know the effect of firing the Quartz gun again exactly as we never saw the exact state of the world.

Some things are for certain such as Naru never being infected by the Scub in the first place. Also no Scub Coral in Okinawa.
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Old 2012-11-22, 20:31   Link #2783
Xagzan
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Originally Posted by Joe_fh View Post
I understand what you're saying and agree about a lot of points in general.

But see, when something is revealed it doesn't really have to make a big splash on everything else. It's true they didn't really have time to expand on the aftermath of it since, well since it ended and a lot of other things had to happen as well. But the whole time they were hinting at something bigger. She always thought she was something more interesting - an existence that was as far attached to this world as the Secrets and the Scub. She thought that and we went along with her. But it turned out she wan't any of that - she was a regular human just like everyone else. This means for her everything changed. You can't say that didn't have any impact on her.

It's probably a good time to point out that not all characters and their development impact the story in a big way (in general). In this case that was even clearly pointed out - that she wasn't anyone special and thus could not make any significant impact on anything. She was basically the human character of the show - the one that expects to be big and special but ends up being insignificant. That's what we humans usually do. There were a lot of these "human nature" and "that's what people do" things in this show to be honest.
And I hear what you're saying. And those things all have potential in theory, I just don't think AO developed them well at all. Especially since we see so little of Elena after the reveal (or even, in a way, before), and the implications of all those concepts go largely unexplored.

And regarding any impact the truth has on her, despite have none on anyone else, I'll repeat what I said earlier. I wasn't even invested in her character to begin with, so why would I care how it affected her? From the beginning, she was just a girl hanging around, every line out of her mouth an anime/manga reference. Which, if combined with other aspects of a character, could've been a fun little personality quirk. But when that's mostly all we get? That's not a character, that's an advertisement. So, I couldn't get invested in her to start with, so any impact the reveal had on her after that moment (which we can only guess at since we saw almost nothing of her afterwards, not how this event would impact her from now on, how it would affect the way she lives her life in the future; not that that's an issue anymore since Ao quartz gunned all of that), rings hollow.

Quote:
All that aside it introduced one more thing, which again wasn't developed because it came way too late for there to be time for it. I mentioned it before but - Eureka went back into this world's past and managed to bring a human back from there.
There are a lot of things that could happen from this point on. But they didn't because it's over - if it was as long as the original it would have probably developed better since it would expand on a lot of things.
Which means either two things. Bad planning/writing, or executive meddling. That's what many here are saying (bad writing, that is. We don't know about any meddling yet, do we?)
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Old 2012-11-23, 02:29   Link #2784
Haak
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Originally Posted by Xagzan View Post
The thing about the anti-climax is, it's really hit or miss. On this matter I agree with tvtropes' assessment, "because if the audience is getting set up for a climax, they expect it to be followed through on. Therefore, except for a few rare occasions, an anticlimax should only be used for humorous purposes..."

Take wikipedia's example of an anti-climax, War of the Worlds. In the end, the big, bad, earth destroying aliens are defeated by a friggin cold. Highly anti-climactic. But you know what? In this instance, it works. It works and people like it because it impacts the story and characters. Hell, it impacts them in the biggest way possible -- it brings an end to the antagonists. An anti-climax doesn't get any more relevant than that.

In Elena's case, it doesn't work as well, because it has no bearing on anything, for reasons I already discussed.
Like I said, it does have a bearing on something. It's just not something your prefer.

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Please tell me how? Not snarky, legitimately confused as to what depth you saw, particularly since we barely see her at all after this moment.
Well at first we thought we were seeing a typical genki otaku with little depth but as it turned out she had real identity issues and had murdered someone in her worst moment (That's definitely what I'd call added depth). We then find out she has a grudge on Eureka and goes as far as to attack her because she thinks Eureka took her away from her real world. She thinks she's from a different world and thinks she's in a story of her own (remember when she ambiguously talked about thing being like out of a manga?), but as it turns out she's just a regular girl (massive twist) and can't relate to the main character in the way she hoped. Needless to say her reaction shows just how much she wanted to believe her own delusions because it was her entire world view up until now, but eventually Ao brings her back to mundane reality and says none of it matters because there are still people care about her and that's what matters. The cheesyness of it that she's allergic to only further brings her face to face with the fact that she is in fact living in the real world now and just has to accept it. So she accepts the mundane and the fact that her fantasy will always be out of her reach. I think that's all genuinely interesting and good depth added to girl we just thought was an otaku girl at first.

Quote:
She was one of the three closest people to our protagonist on the show. She had entire episodes dedicated to creating mystery about her past. Yeah, I'd say that makes it a pretty big issue, when such a promoted character makes so little impact.
It was more like one one episode of mystery then one episode of resolution with bits in the middle but yeah okay...
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Old 2012-11-23, 05:43   Link #2785
lann
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Time bubbles. Koizumi explained to Kyon about the Disappearance of Haruhi in a way that was easy to understand. Basically along a timeline there is point a) the start, point x) the time changing event, and point b) the continued timeline from point x. But point b reverts back to point x. the two join up. then from here a new point b exists. if drawn on a chart this time bubble would be drawn in a circle, with the final result having a linear line from point a to point x to point b, with a circle touching the timeline at point x. simple really. In the case of this series, there are multiple circles or time bubbles within the overall time bubble.

If the Haruhi anime continued, Koizumis explanation would be animated.
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Old 2012-11-23, 10:06   Link #2786
klare
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a bit messy towards the end, maybe i forgot most of the previous episodes

so everything is reset back to the world that we know, btw how is Ao going to land without trapar?

overall is an ok show with very good animations
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Old 2012-11-23, 10:14   Link #2787
Trajan
Six Shooter
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Well at first we thought we were seeing a typical genki otaku with little depth but as it turned out she had real identity issues and had murdered someone in her worst moment (That's definitely what I'd call added depth). We then find out she has a grudge on Eureka and goes as far as to attack her because she thinks Eureka took her away from her real world. She thinks she's from a different world and thinks she's in a story of her own (remember when she ambiguously talked about thing being like out of a manga?), but as it turns out she's just a regular girl (massive twist) and can't relate to the main character in the way she hoped. Needless to say her reaction shows just how much she wanted to believe her own delusions because it was her entire world view up until now, but eventually Ao brings her back to mundane reality and says none of it matters because there are still people care about her and that's what matters. The cheesyness of it that she's allergic to only further brings her face to face with the fact that she is in fact living in the real world now and just has to accept it. So she accepts the mundane and the fact that her fantasy will always be out of her reach. I think that's all genuinely interesting and good depth added to girl we just thought was an otaku girl at first.
Except of course Elena is not normal. She's apparently the only human with natural pastel-colored hair. She's the only human able to pilot an LFO despite not growing up in a trapar-rich environment. She's the only person hologram Eureka was able to touch. She's been to an alternate universe. She's been to the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lann View Post
Time bubbles. Koizumi explained to Kyon about the Disappearance of Haruhi in a way that was easy to understand. Basically along a timeline there is point a) the start, point x) the time changing event, and point b) the continued timeline from point x. But point b reverts back to point x. the two join up. then from here a new point b exists. if drawn on a chart this time bubble would be drawn in a circle, with the final result having a linear line from point a to point x to point b, with a circle touching the timeline at point x. simple really. In the case of this series, there are multiple circles or time bubbles within the overall time bubble.

If the Haruhi anime continued, Koizumis explanation would be animated.
Not really much of an explanation, since it doesn't explain why the timeline circles back on itself from X to B.
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Old 2012-11-23, 10:25   Link #2788
Kanon
Kana Hanazawa ♥
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lann View Post
The only thing i need to recheck up on is if whether Eureka and Renton CAN have kids in their future, in areas of lower trapper i.e. earths surface rather than the scub coral continents.
Pregnant Eureka was already aware that her child would not be able to survive in a high trapar environment. Therefore, Renton and her must have desperately searched for a suitable place to raise their child. Since the kid ended up dying and Eureka had to be sent to another world to give birth to Ao, it's safe to assume there is no such place in their own world. They will never have any other children.
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Old 2012-11-23, 14:28   Link #2789
Haak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
Except of course Elena is not normal. She's apparently the only human with natural pastel-colored hair. She's the only human able to pilot an LFO despite not growing up in a trapar-rich environment. She's the only person hologram Eureka was able to touch. She's been to an alternate universe. She's been to the future.
Actually it was already mentioned that like other IFO pilots, her ability to pilot IFO's was the result of a brain alteration caused by the trapar and that before Elena was taken to Generation Bleu, she was kept in a research facility in America. This was before it was revealed that she wasn't actually Elena Peoples, but considering the real Elena Peoples died without visiting any such research facility, it probably did happen to her. Remember that Eureka transported her when she was just a small child (and that Eureka saved her from a scub burst so she likely did live in place of high trapar concentration too).

Regarding her being the only person hologram Eureka was able to touch, that was in between travelling different universes. We don't know if she touched her at the moment she saved her.

As for her being in future, that doesn't do her any good. She thought she was entitled to a more exciting life in a more distant future, not a boring past with even less technology her entertainment is so dependant on.

As for her hair color...well yeah it is certainly strange that they would note the strangeness of Ao's hair colour whilst ignoring Elena's, but it's definitely not a deal breaker for me. At least, that's not where my thoughts were at the time.
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Old 2012-11-23, 15:20   Link #2790
Trajan
Six Shooter
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Actually it was already mentioned that like other IFO pilots, her ability to pilot IFO's was the result of a brain alteration caused by the trapar and that before Elena was taken to Generation Bleu, she was kept in a research facility in America. This was before it was revealed that she wasn't actually Elena Peoples, but considering the real Elena Peoples died without visiting any such research facility, it probably did happen to her. Remember that Eureka transported her when she was just a small child (and that Eureka saved her from a scub burst so she likely did live in place of high trapar concentration too).
She wasn't a small child. She was 10 years old when Eureka transported her to 2020, because she is 15 in the year 2025. I'd also note that it was Christophe who told Gazelle about the facility in a bid to convince Gazelle that Miller and Elena were different people, so Christophe may very well have been lying to Gazelle about Elena's past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Regarding her being the only person hologram Eureka was able to touch, that was in between travelling different universes. We don't know if she touched her at the moment she saved her.
So Eureka could save Elena without touching her, but couldn't save AO without touching him? That makes no sense. I think the "real answer" that Elena was originally supposed to be someone special--part-Coralian, hence the pastel-colored hair--and that Eureka brought her to the Ao-verse for some specific reason. However, they probably ran out of time so just dropped her story line and came up with the "human from the past" story line, even though it makes no sense given what came before it.
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Old 2012-11-23, 15:27   Link #2791
Haak
Forever Alone...
 
 
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Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
She wasn't a small child. She was 10 years old when Eureka transported her to 2020, because she is 15 in the year 2025.
Well I thought a 10 year old would just about count as a small child but in any case it seems clear that she was in a high trapar concentration as a child and did in fact go to that research facility.

Quote:
So Eureka could save Elena without touching her, but couldn't save AO without touching him? That makes no sense. I think the "real answer" that Elena was originally supposed to be someone special--part-Coralian, hence the pastel-colored hair--and that Eureka brought her to the Ao-verse for some specific reason. However, they probably ran out of time so just dropped her story line and came up with the "human from the past" story line, even though it makes no sense given what came before it.
Save Ao from what? If we assume the only thing she can do is travel between different universes whilst carrying Quartz and people, then it probably wouldn't be a good idea for her to do that to Ao considering she sacrificed so much just to bring him to the world he was currently in.

[edit]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
I'd also note that it was Christophe who told Gazelle about the facility in a bid to convince Gazelle that Miller and Elena were different people, so Christophe may very well have been lying to Gazelle about Elena's past.
If I may say so, I think that's an extremely liberal interpretation.
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Old 2012-11-23, 16:17   Link #2792
ZODDGUTS
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What a mess of a show.
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Old 2012-11-23, 16:34   Link #2793
Daniel Lind
ロック・オン!
 
 
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She's apparently the only human with natural pastel-colored hair.
How do you know it's natural? She's crazy, she could've dyed it.
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Old 2012-11-23, 18:12   Link #2794
lann
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Pregnant Eureka was already aware that her child would not be able to survive in a high trapper environment. Therefore, Renton and her must have desperately searched for a suitable place to raise their child. Since the kid ended up dying and Eureka had to be sent to another world to give birth to Ao, it's safe to assume there is no such place in their own world. They will never have any other children.
I dont want to come across as a fan that wishes this dvd cover to be canon, but there must be a way. these kids on this cover are on earth. Renton and Eureka tried for a second baby despite what happened to their first. In PoP, they ended up trapped on earth and couldnt move because there was no trapper.
Renton sent Eureka back to the past though a pillar of light on the spur of the moment. Their plan was probably to have Eureka give birth to Ao on earth where the trapper is at low levels, but they got stuck having to shoot down secrets and scub coral so were in a bit of a dilemma. now thats over they can resume their plan on having kids on earths surface.
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Old 2012-11-23, 18:32   Link #2795
Haak
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Originally Posted by Daniel Lind View Post
How do you know it's natural? She's crazy, she could've dyed it.
It was pink when she was a kid too. Plus there was that scene where she submerged herself in the bath tub so if it is dyed then it must be ridiculously strong. I do kinda think they were taking advantage of the ambiguity there, just like with Naru's fake alien ears that she wore for no apparent reason...
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Old 2012-11-24, 03:18   Link #2796
Raincollie
A certain collie of rain.
 
 
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Originally Posted by klare View Post
How is Ao going to land without trapar?
Perhaps just like his mother, as shown in episode 3? I believe there was a glimpse of trapar just as the destroyed Nirvash (or Truth) disappeared, as they were probably carrying a bit of trapar around them by moving between dimensions, but that probably won`t help Ao land normally.
What makes me wonder even more is what his life is going to be now. Of course it`s going to be weird for people around him that his natural hair and eye color are abnormal, but eventually they`ll find out that he`s actually either an alien or a mutation, as he can see Infrared and Ultraviolet waves. Maybe this is actually a gateway for another sequel where he tries to figure out how he can leave this (our) universe, and reunite with his parents. I`d love such a thing, personally.
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Old 2012-11-24, 06:10   Link #2797
CJ_Walker
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Los Angeles, California
Age: 30
...

So, I just Marthoned the Original Eureka seven over the past two days. . .and wow, that show is hugely superior in every way to AO, and I can see why I was extreemly disapointed in AO, I mean really on a scale I'd rate E7 at a 95/100 (due to some of the flaws that were there but really were pretty minor in the course of the show) and AO at like a 25/100.

They really should have devoted a full 50 episode show to give it justice, ESPECAILLY since they seemed to only remake the show as a money grab. . .why not just put the needed money into it and make it as epic as the first one? That would make the studio a LOT more money than whatever the fuck happened here.

Oh and I realize that there WAS room for a sequel, they could have made a story about what would happen if the scub(or parts of them) would return (as they hinted they may have to in the future) that would have made for an awesome sequel and would have done justice/answered some of the unanswered (well not really unanswered but rather cloudy) questions in the first E7. It just seems like the Japanese like to suffer sometimes, rather than do thigns the right(common sense)way...its no wonder why theyve been in a economic recession/depression for the past 30 years...

(I've been living here[Tokyo] for a while for work/business and I've seen a lot of shit that qualifies me saying that)
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Old 2012-11-24, 13:04   Link #2798
Dauerlutscher
I never asked for this
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Damn, i really hate what this sequel did to Eureka7. It Had so much plotholes everywhere, pointless charctaers and it basically went against everything what made the prequel so great and even destroyed the wonderfull and deserved ending that everyone was fighting so hard for.
To sum it up. Dewey was right after all and Ray got her revenge on Eureka even after her death.
I can just facepalm on about how absurd daffy this sequel was. Bones, I'm angry and disapointed and that is only the nice way to say how i feel about it.
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Old 2012-11-24, 15:06   Link #2799
lann
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Join Date: Sep 2009
You know what, this series has proved to me to so completely different from what happened or explained in Palms of Planets. im willing to state right here and right now that there is enough evidence to suggest that the Eureka and Renton we saw in Ao is NOT the same people we saw in Palms of Planets. In PoP, the spokes person of the scub coral (the hippy aboard the Gekko-Go) told them they would disappear to another universe to work out a way of living with mankind before they return.

Answer me this, if the Secrets were tailing the scub coral wherever it went, where the fuck were they in PoP?? Hu? ANSWER ME THIS.

BAD END IS BAD, AO. BONES- DISAPPOINT. Franchise cash in. Thats all this was. Believe in the DVD cover. IT HAPPENED
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Old 2012-11-24, 16:33   Link #2800
Vash1306
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The secret were following the scub because they were traveling through time/worlds in a time where they shouldnt appear yet.
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