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Old 2012-11-25, 01:34   Link #41
Ulquiorra
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
yea I agree. madara and sasuke are pretty much nothing alike aside from being ultra-talented uchihas
And even in talent Sasuke is nothing compared to Madara.
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Old 2012-11-25, 07:49   Link #42
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
yea I agree. madara and sasuke are pretty much nothing alike aside from being ultra-talented uchihas
say what!!
no brotherly love or "avenging the clan" similarities?!?!? lol
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Old 2012-11-25, 11:19   Link #43
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How so? Other than the past couple of months (in story), I don't feel he really did anything even remotely similar to what Madara did. His past is more similar to Orochimaru's, if one were to compare it to anyone's.
The two's brothers sacrificed for the others and survivors despised their villages. Madara believes that hatred is the only thing left for the clan and he tried having his revenge for Izuna against Konoha lots of years ago. Sasuke originally tried to have his revenge against Konoha but after Itachi's departure he wants to know if there's something more important for the clan than hatred.
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Old 2012-11-25, 11:22   Link #44
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Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime View Post
say what!!
no brotherly love or "avenging the clan" similarities?!?!? lol
Well if we can take Tobi's word for it, because that's all we have basically, Madara is a whining bitch. So there you go, another similarity to Sasuke.
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Old 2012-11-25, 14:02   Link #45
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime View Post
say what!!
no brotherly love or "avenging the clan" similarities?!?!? lol
you laugh, but you're totally off base...

itachi and izuna's relationships to their brothers are not similar at all. izuna was always at madara's side and they were close. itachi branded himself a serial killer who was sasuke's enemy and target. when sasuke learned the truth, itachi was already dead. just because they both ended up giving their eyes to their brothers doesn't mean they had similar paths in getting there. also madara doesn't have any brotherly love. he said to the kages that izuna was only useful for his eyes and was otherwise a waste of a person leaving nothing else behind of any use. and regardless of izuna giving up his eyes willfully or not which we don't know yet, madara still took them and regarded izuna as just a means to an end for his own power. sasuke legitimately loves itachi

as far as avenging the clan, madara and sasuke aren't similar either. madara despised his clan for never listening to him about first joining the senju and then about konoha's oppression. he was later ostracized and left on his own. he didn't want to avenge the uchiha, he wanted to take vengeance on them and konoha and forcibly become the leader of both but he lost to hashirama
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Old 2012-11-25, 15:31   Link #46
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
you laugh, but you're totally off base...

itachi and izuna's relationships to their brothers are not similar at all. izuna was always at madara's side and they were close. itachi branded himself a serial killer who was sasuke's enemy and target. when sasuke learned the truth, itachi was already dead. just because they both ended up giving their eyes to their brothers doesn't mean they had similar paths in getting there. also madara doesn't have any brotherly love. he said to the kages that izuna was only useful for his eyes and was otherwise a waste of a person leaving nothing else behind of any use. and regardless of izuna giving up his eyes willfully or not which we don't know yet, madara still took them and regarded izuna as just a means to an end for his own power. sasuke legitimately loves itachi

as far as avenging the clan, madara and sasuke aren't similar either. madara despised his clan for never listening to him about first joining the senju and then about konoha's oppression. he was later ostracized and left on his own. he didn't want to avenge the uchiha, he wanted to take vengeance on them and konoha and forcibly become the leader of both but he lost to hashirama
well i guess my post didn't come off in the same cartoony voice that was in my head lol...i was teasing at the comparison of sasuke to madara...

but after reading your post, i'll say i didn't get the impression of madara not caring for his brother AT ALL when he was talking to the kages...imo it sounded like losing his brother was in part motivating him to genjutsu the world...on another note, what do we make of the nine tails reference to madara when meeting sasuke? sasuke and naruto fighting much like madara and hashirama fighting?
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Old 2012-11-25, 16:18   Link #47
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Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime View Post
do we make of the nine tails reference to madara when meeting sasuke? sasuke and naruto fighting much like madara and hashirama fighting?
The Ninetailed fox found Sasuke's stare even colder than Madara's. Kakashi's comment apparently referred to how both Sasuke and Madara are both former members of Konoha and encountered a rival. The big difference is that Sasuke did not give up on reality unlike Madara and Obito.
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Old 2012-11-25, 16:54   Link #48
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Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime View Post
well i guess my post didn't come off in the same cartoony voice that was in my head lol...i was teasing at the comparison of sasuke to madara...
oh haha! my bad

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but after reading your post, i'll say i didn't get the impression of madara not caring for his brother AT ALL when he was talking to the kages...imo it sounded like losing his brother was in part motivating him to genjutsu the world...
i didnt read it like that. my assumption for the whole moon's eye plan would be madara's disillusion with the uchiha and just other ninja in general. he sees himself as the best ninja ever (and arguably he's right) but nobody followed him and jumped when he said jump. he's not a very good leader and it bothers him. so seeing as how he cant encourage people to do what he says, he is now trying to force people into doing what he wants with genjutsu. of course right now he is sidetracked because he is having fun fighting and above all, madara is just a bloodthirsty warlord.

Quote:
on another note, what do we make of the nine tails reference to madara when meeting sasuke? sasuke and naruto fighting much like madara and hashirama fighting?
i think he just meant that he hadn't seen an uchiha with visual prowess like sasuke since madara. simple enough. i dont think it had any relevance to naruto and sasuke's rivalry. it was also a way to introduce/reinforce the name of madara to the readers so that we were more shocked when his name came up in the future in regards to tobi.
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Old 2012-11-25, 18:13   Link #49
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Originally Posted by itachi-san314 View Post
i think he just meant that he hadn't seen an uchiha with visual prowess like sasuke since madara. simple enough. i dont think it had any relevance to naruto and sasuke's rivalry. it was also a way to introduce/reinforce the name of madara to the readers so that we were more shocked when his name came up in the future in regards to tobi.
Both Sasuke and Kakashi make the comment about the Valley of the End. Their brief comment was how "two opponents fought until the end in this valley" although Sasuke still didn't know about Madara by that time while Kakashi knew about the two enemies in the valley. Still, Madara wasn't explained until 13 volumes later when Jiraiya and Itachi mention him.
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Old 2012-11-25, 21:33   Link #50
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Originally Posted by amaterasu4 View Post
Both Sasuke and Kakashi make the comment about the Valley of the End. Their brief comment was how "two opponents fought until the end in this valley" although Sasuke still didn't know about Madara by that time while Kakashi knew about the two enemies in the valley. Still, Madara wasn't explained until 13 volumes later when Jiraiya and Itachi mention him.
I was responding to Artimus_Prime's question about Kurama's statement to sasuke during the new team 7 arc when sasuke enters naruto's seal. i'm not really sure what your point is here
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Old 2012-11-25, 23:11   Link #51
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i didnt read it like that. my assumption for the whole moon's eye plan would be madara's disillusion with the uchiha and just other ninja in general. he sees himself as the best ninja ever (and arguably he's right) but nobody followed him and jumped when he said jump. he's not a very good leader and it bothers him. so seeing as how he cant encourage people to do what he says, he is now trying to force people into doing what he wants with genjutsu. of course right now he is sidetracked because he is having fun fighting and above all, madara is just a bloodthirsty warlord.
this make me hope that the author gives us some more story about the sage and his sons...you know, the story madara told obito in the dream room. the stuff in bold sounds very much (to me at least) like the storyline of the elder son who wanted to rule by might. he doesn't get chosen because he wants to force people to follow him. hell, he could have originated the whole moon's eye plan as his means to rule if chosen. (then he leaves the instructions on that tablet when the younger son proves more worthy...) yeah. is this all madaras doing or is he following the game plan of the elder son? not really sure if it adds to the story though...
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Old 2012-11-26, 11:31   Link #52
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Well, it's strongly implied that there is at least one more unknown piece to the puzzle to understand what the hell is going on here. There is something more behind this war that we don't know about.

Not saying it won't be something lame. Not saying it will be either.
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Old 2012-11-26, 13:09   Link #53
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Well, it's strongly implied that there is at least one more unknown piece to the puzzle to understand what the hell is going on here. There is something more behind this war that we don't know about.

Not saying it won't be something lame. Not saying it will be either.
I don't see anything more when it comes to why Obito and Madara do these things. There definitely are some secrets not revealed but the reason behind their goals seems quite clear now. There are some details that were not addressed yet: where were the Uchiha on the night of the kyuubi attack, why did Obito want to kill them all, and a few more things about the Uchiha clan. But we will soon get the answers from Sasuke, since he is now on a mission to find answers.

Then there are the secrets of the Sage of 6 paths, i think these are now more relevant to the story and more interesting than the Uchiha secrets. But some things have already been cleared: the "demons" have acknowledged that Naruto is the one the sage was talking about, the Gedo Mazo is the shell of the 10-tails, etc. I think the most interesting mistery now is what was exactly the relation of the 10-tails and the sage. Was the 10-tails a creation or is it some eternal existence that sometimes destroys and recreates the world, etc. One thing that seems odd is that the 10-tails has a rinnegan+sharingan eye, so it therefore doesn't make too much sense if both the 10-tails and the sage had independently the same eye pattern. Which would mean tha the sage didn't have the rinnegan before he sealed the 10-tails inside himself, and also that his Senju and Uchiha sons were born after the sealing which would explain why they have their powers. It can also mean that Naruto can get the same eyes as the 10-tails has if he has in himself the chakra of all the 9 tailed beasts. Also it explains the role of the Uzumaki: if the sage was an Uzumaki that could explain why Madara wanted his eye to be transplanted into Nagato, if he believed that to use the eye one needs to have the same bloodline as the sage (and he would never give that eye to the enemy Senju or the Uchiha traitors).

The discussion threads for recent chapters are only a few pages long, because there's not much to discuss any more.
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Old 2012-11-26, 18:04   Link #54
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Isn't the Senju and Uchiha surname given to the descendants of the Sage of the six path's offsprings? They were brothers which meant that they should have the same last name as their father, the SoT6P. It was explained (forgot who did) that the sage's eyes and body was given to the brothers separately.
On the side note: I do believe Naruto will one day get the Rinnegan but not through his own awakening. It would probably be Sasuke's attempt at redemption when he gives his EMS to Naruto while he's near death. Naruto would need it to revive the world via the unlimited chakra of the 9 beast and the Rinnegan.
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Old 2012-11-26, 19:30   Link #55
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Isn't the Senju and Uchiha surname given to the descendants of the Sage of the six path's offsprings? They were brothers which meant that they should have the same last name as their father, the SoT6P. It was explained (forgot who did) that the sage's eyes and body was given to the brothers separately.
They started their own clans, so i guess they had to choose a new name for themselves, so they dropped their father's name and so it remains a mistery if the Sage was member of some clan and if so what was the name. My guess is he was a member of the Uzumaki clan, but that's just an assumption based on a few things, most importantly that Madara chose Uzumaki Nagato as the new host of his eyes. But it can very well be that the sage was not part of any clan, he was just a genius above all who invented everything. I like the latter idea because if we add to that the idea of him not having the rinnegan prior to becoming the 10-tails' host then we come to the conclusion that no special bloodline is needed to invent and master any jutsu, it's just talent and hard work. But the sage being an Uzumaki is close to that since the Uzumaki don't have any particular jutsu that is only allowed by their bloodline. But the only thing that we could be sure if the manga was more rational is that the both the Sage and the 10-tails having rinnegan eye independently of each other is extremely unlikely. But nearly impossible things happen in the manga, so we can never be sure

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On the side note: I do believe Naruto will one day get the Rinnegan but not through his own awakening. It would probably be Sasuke's attempt at redemption when he gives his EMS to Naruto while he's near death. Naruto would need it to revive the world via the unlimited chakra of the 9 beast and the Rinnegan.
Assuming that Sasuke has his happy ending, which i think is safe to say now, i can't imagine that he turns out a blind guy. Also those eyes are not suited for non-uchiha, and they don't even fit Naruto's style, nor would Naruto accept such a thing. Sasuke's redemption is if he helps Naruto to save the world from Madara. Of course Sasuke will probably at one point decide to sacrifice himself for Naruto and the world, since the author likes to use such cliche , but in these cases it turns out that the guy usually doesn't die, for example remember Sasuke "died" on the Naruto bridge when he saved Naruto from Haku.

The idea that the Sage's rinnegan is from the 10-tails can make it possible for Naruto to temporarily awaken the rinnegan if he has the chakra of all 9 demons, and we saw in recent chapters that they gave a part of their chakra to Naruto telling him that it's a useful gift. Eye jutsu is not Naruto's style, so that's why it would be just a temporary powerup that makes it possible to revive masses of people died in this war.

I agree that there's a very good chance that the alliance army will be revived at the end of this war. I mean Kishimoto never made such a massacre before this war, until now about 2/3 of the army is dead, that's like 50-60,000 people, it's a huge massacre until now and it doesn't seem to be ending yet. (BTW it would also give a chance to Kabuto to redeem himself if all those who died because of him are revived. And we saw some pages about people waiting Kabuto back to his orphanage.) After the Konoha massacre which was much smaller than this all those killed were revived, so there's a good chance for that here too.
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Old 2012-11-26, 20:09   Link #56
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As far as we know, Kakashi is not related to the sage in anyway (Not Uchiha, Senju, or Uzumaki) but he was still able to use the MS proficiently as many Uchihas (Sasuke, Obito, and someone as awesome as Itachi) have commented. It wouldn't be that far-fetched for Naruto to use some sort of Doujitsu. We have seen him with weird patterns in his eyes already (Sennin Mode /+ Kyuubi). I don't know what it is but I keep thinking Sasuke will make a 180 turn around and save Naruto while suffering from a hole in the chest then plucking his eyes out and telling Sakura (who happens to have a M.D. in Narutoverse) to transplant them making Naruto go OMGWTFBBQ on a Madara turned Devil-like-God-cotton candy-Super Saiyan-Chuck Norris.

And it wouldn't be too difficult to turn Sasuke good again. It's as simple as Madara saying to Sasuke "I'm the one who convinced Danzo to convince Itachi to massacre the Uchiha Clan because I can, it's fun, and my eye's put Itachi's Tsukiyomi/Amatsukami to shame."
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Old 2012-11-26, 21:10   Link #57
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I've just realized that while Sasuke doesn't have the requirements to activate the Rinnegan, he has a lot of Karin's DNA (she is an Uzumaki according to Kabuto) in his body as a result of biting her in order to heal him. Does that make him suitable to activate the Rinnegan? I hope Kishimoto makes him return soon considering the way he changed last time. He reminded me a lot to Naruto in his fight against Pain thinking about Jiraiya's wish. Thus, I don't think a Naruto vs Sasuke could be possible during the war.
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Old 2012-11-26, 21:13   Link #58
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Drinking blood doesn't give you someone's DNA.
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Old 2012-11-26, 21:39   Link #59
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Red blood cells don't even have a nucleus lol
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Old 2012-11-26, 21:51   Link #60
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I like the latter idea because if we add to that the idea of him not having the rinnegan prior to becoming the 10-tails' host
i read your posts about the sage vs the juubi having rinnegan first and i wanted to add this. i'm not saying i necessarily believe what i'm about to post, but just raising the point.

all summoned and controlled creatures by people with sharingan/rinnegan seem to have the sharingan/rinnegan for eyes (i.e. pain's creatures, manda, kyuubi) so the juubi may be no different and might not actually possess the rinnegan, but merely it is because obito summoned it that it is showing it. i'm not sure to what extent if any that obito is controlling it though. if true, then it follows that the so6p had rinngegan prior to his involvement with the juubi (which i do believe)
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