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Old 2012-11-23, 12:17   Link #61
mareiyo
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
Boy, the Smile revelation is gonna make things a LOT more interesting, IMO. Just imagine if Smile users even have an Awakened form (which, BTW, I'm also hoping that Momo will have)? It really does just go to show the types of crazy forces who control the New World.....



Also, about the ministory: Apparently, the island Caribou washed up on was the same winter island that we saw Drake at before the skip. So it looks like our muddy friend is in Kaidou's territory now.....


Edit: Holy crap, it looks like Oda actually foreshadowed the Smile's appearance before the skip:


Spoiler:
They showed the smile before that... When the strawhats were in Mocktown. Bellamy worked for Doflamingo.
Spoiler:


Spoiler:

Last edited by mareiyo; 2012-11-23 at 12:36. Reason: photo updage
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Old 2012-11-23, 14:45   Link #62
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You realize that one is merely Doflamingos banner, while the "smile" everyone talks about are artificially created DF, which are totally *not* foreshadowed in the pages you pasted there
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Old 2012-11-23, 16:57   Link #63
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Yeah, "Smile" in this case refers to the synthetic fruits that CC is producing, not Dofla's jolly roger. Not that I doubt there's a connection between them, but I was specifically talking about the fruits.


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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
^Personally, I still expect Shanks and Luffy to fight one day. They are certainly allies of sorts, but I have also always seen them as rivals of sorts as well (more so on Luffy's end).


I dunno.... to be honest, I sort of doubt that Luffy will ever have a proper reunion with Shanks. Mainly because I have a strong feeling that Blackbeard will kill him before (or by the time) that Luffy reaches him. It's kinda like how a few years back many people figured that Luffy would eventually fight Ace and Whitebeard before the events leading up to Marineford surfaced.....
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Old 2012-11-24, 08:10   Link #64
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I don't see Shanks fighting with Luffy, That would be ridiculous if it happened.
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Old 2012-11-24, 10:28   Link #65
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I would be surprised if Luffy fights Donflamingo before going after a Yonkou, unless he is in the way of getting to the Yonkou.

Little rant. Donflamingo thinks long term. Suspect he has other plans as well beyond the artificial fruits. He profits from war and will continue to put himself in a position to be a broker. In fact he has ordered the destruction of the SAD production room, LAW to be killed and for CC and Monet to return. I think Law's plan is to take down the Yonkou that depends on a Zoan army by devising a way to negate the artificial DF. Not sure on who the Yonkou is, but its probably Big Mom. Shanks: has own power and doesn't seem like the kind of leader that would have this type of army, BlackBeard: has own way to get DF fruits and is looking for powerful ones not just zoans, Kaidou: too early to introduce yet another yonkou imho. This gives Luffy and Law the means to attack Big Mom. They will probably team up with Kid, Apoo and Hawkins. Whose help they will need since I think Donflamingo will step in to help the Yonkou whose devil fruit army with be negated, in order to protect his reputation. (if not he has some other weapons which are better?), heck Crocodile might even come into the mix and replace Donflamingo if one of Kid, Apoo or Hawkins don't want it. If the supernovas don't come together they may take out two Yonkous and really bring in the new age, Kid and Luffy become Yonkous?

Rant over
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Old 2012-11-24, 12:02   Link #66
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by Poetic Justice View Post
I don't see Shanks fighting with Luffy, That would be ridiculous if it happened.
I wouldn't say Shanks vs. Luffy would be ridiculous. Depending on the circumstances, even people on really good terms could potentially fight over something. We also don't know anything about Shanks' true motives. Depending on what they are, there may be a possibility that they somehow conflict with Luffy's aspirations/beliefs. If you want a perfect example of this, look at Luffy vs. Ussop. Case-in-point, you never know what may come up in the future that creates opposition between people.

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Originally Posted by golgo13 View Post
I think Law's plan is to take down the Yonkou that depends on a Zoan army by devising a way to negate the artificial DF. Not sure on who the Yonkou is, but its probably Big Mom. Shanks: has own power and doesn't seem like the kind of leader that would have this type of army, BlackBeard: has own way to get DF fruits and is looking for powerful ones not just zoans, Kaidou: too early to introduce yet another yonkou imho. This gives Luffy and Law the means to attack Big Mom. They will probably team up with Kid, Apoo and Hawkins. Whose help they will need since I think Donflamingo will step in to help the Yonkou whose devil fruit army with be negated, in order to protect his reputation. (if not he has some other weapons which are better?)

Rant over
I think we can rule out Shanks and Blackbeard (partially for the reasons you provided), so that leaves Big Mom and Kaido. For Big Mom, sweets seem to take priority over everything else. Manpower doesn't seem to be an interest for her (at least from what we know so far). It's true that next to nothing is known about Kaido, but from the little we've gathered about him, he seems to be quite the opportunist and negotiable. He tried to intercept Whitebeard from going to Marineford, which I highly doubt was for good intentions. Whitebeard was most likely vulnerable and Kaido tried to take advantage of that which resulted in Shanks' intervention. It's also clear that Shanks and Kaido didn't get into a fight because the former arrived at Marineford completely unscathed (you don't fight an emperor without suffering any serious injuries). That means that Shanks somehow managed to negotiate something with Kaido.

With all that being said, I have a strong suspicion Kaido is the one doing business with Doflamingo.
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Old 2012-11-24, 12:29   Link #67
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I think we can rule out Shanks and Blackbeard (partially for the reasons you provided), so that leaves Big Mom and Kaido. For Big Mom, sweets seem to take priority over everything else. Manpower doesn't seem to be an interest for her (at least from what we know so far). It's true that next to nothing is known about Kaido, but from the little we've gathered about him, he seems to be quite the opportunist and negotiable. He tried to intercept Whitebeard from going to Marineford, which I highly doubt was for good intentions. Whitebeard was most likely vulnerable and Kaido tried to take advantage of that which resulted in Shanks' intervention. It's also clear that Shanks and Kaido didn't get into a fight because the former arrived at Marineford completely unscathed (you don't fight an emperor without suffering any serious injuries). That means that Shanks somehow managed to negotiate something with Kaido.

With all that being said, I have a strong suspicion Kaido is the one doing business with Doflamingo.
Kaidou was reported to have wanted to stop Whitebeard. His intentions are unclear. Whitebeard was certainly not weak, he was heading to take on marineford! Suspect Kaidou didn't want there to be a change of Yonkou with the possibility that Whitebeard might lose. Remember Shanks actually was trying to disuade Whitebeard from allowing Ace to continue on his revenge, knowing BlackBeard was aiming for the top. Change means uncertainty. The Yonkous act to prolong the coming of the new age. Kaidou is shown to have acted later.

That being said, it is true that Kaidou and Shanks likely didn't fight. Negotiating, maybe, if so what?

Kaidou seems like the scientist type, maybe even a disciple of vegapunk gone rogue. Given that, using science to better his army is possible.

Big Mom and Kaidou are likely the first two Yonkous to fall. What is the order and by who. I doubt, Luffy takes them both out.
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Old 2012-11-24, 15:09   Link #68
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Originally Posted by golgo13 View Post
Kaidou was reported to have wanted to stop Whitebeard. His intentions are unclear. Whitebeard was certainly not weak, he was heading to take on marineford! Suspect Kaidou didn't want there to be a change of Yonkou with the possibility that Whitebeard might lose. Remember Shanks actually was trying to disuade Whitebeard from allowing Ace to continue on his revenge, knowing BlackBeard was aiming for the top. Change means uncertainty. The Yonkous act to prolong the coming of the new age. Kaidou is shown to have acted later.

That being said, it is true that Kaidou and Shanks likely didn't fight. Negotiating, maybe, if so what?

Kaidou seems like the scientist type, maybe even a disciple of vegapunk gone rogue. Given that, using science to better his army is possible.
If Kaido didn't have hostile intentions, why would Shanks bother intercepting him? Shanks came to Marineford to stop the war, but he was already too late. The damage had been done. Most likely, Shanks was trying to prevent the "rampaging era" that would ensue upon the aftermath of the war (he foresaw that there would be dire consequences for the world).

So if we go with your reasoning of why Kaido tried to stop Whitebeard, then that means Shanks intercepted Kaido only to tell him that it would be useless to try to dissuade Whitebeard, hence the reason why there was no fight between them (Shanks arriving at Marineford unscathed attests to this). But if Kaido was really concerned about preserving stability and order, why wouldn't he accompany Shanks to Marineford to try to stop the war as well? Perhaps he didn't want to risk any casualties/fatalities on his side? That sounds very unlikely seeing as how Shanks was willing to use force to end things. And surely 3 emperors uniting would be too much for the marines to handle, so it couldn't be that Kaido was afraid of losing anything.
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Old 2012-11-24, 15:13   Link #69
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IIRC he didn't try to kill whitebeard, but instead he tried to stop him from going to MF. It was actually correct to try and stop whitebeard, since he wouldn't have died and the balance of power wouldn't have been shaken, if he didn't go for Ace.

To me it looks like Kaido did the right thing. And since we don't know what motives he had for his doing, he could turn out as a villain as well as an ally. So IMHO we still have no idea what kind of position he will take regarding the Straw-Hats.
Shanks stopped Kaidou from going to Marineford.
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Old 2012-11-24, 18:56   Link #70
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
If Kaido didn't have hostile intentions, why would Shanks bother intercepting him? Shanks came to Marineford to stop the war, but he was already too late. The damage had been done. Most likely, Shanks was trying to prevent the "rampaging era" that would ensue upon the aftermath of the war (he foresaw that there would be dire consequences for the world).

So if we go with your reasoning of why Kaido tried to stop Whitebeard, then that means Shanks intercepted Kaido only to tell him that it would be useless to try to dissuade Whitebeard, hence the reason why there was no fight between them (Shanks arriving at Marineford unscathed attests to this). But if Kaido was really concerned about preserving stability and order, why wouldn't he accompany Shanks to Marineford to try to stop the war as well? Perhaps he didn't want to risk any casualties/fatalities on his side? That sounds very unlikely seeing as how Shanks was willing to use force to end things. And surely 3 emperors uniting would be too much for the marines to handle, so it couldn't be that Kaido was afraid of losing anything.
I think it was too late for Kaidou and that Whitebeard had already made up his mind. Shanks was trying to avoid involving yet another Yonkou. Battles between Yonkous are probably avoided as much as possible because of the consequences. Similar to between marine admirals. Had Kaidou fought Whitebeard that would mean two weakened Yonkous with another (blackbeard) on his way. Its a guess.. Kaidou accompanying Shanks would mean 3 Yonkous involved. And who knows if they would all fight for the same thing anyways, Kaidou could have easily gone for Whitebeards head during the war..

Oh and even if Kaidou didn't have hostile intentions, that wouldn't matter. He was going to oppose Whitebeards will. That means war.

Last edited by golgo13; 2012-11-24 at 18:58. Reason: another thing
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Old 2012-11-24, 22:07   Link #71
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With all that being said, I have a strong suspicion Kaido is the one doing business with Doflamingo.
It seems odd to introduce yet another Yonkou into the mix, before we've even gotten through a single one (not to mention Doffy).

Big Mom's crew seems to be the strangest out of the 4 crews.. Smiles could explain why this is. Last but not least, all four Yonkou want power. In fact, everyone wants power to a certain extent, Whitebeard to protect his family, Kaidou for unknown reasons, Big Mom for self gratification (she seems to be addicted to sweets), Luffy for absolute freedom. It would not surprise me if the Yonkou in question was Big Mom, and the Smiles plotline could be a way of tying her in with Doffy's arc.
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Old 2012-11-25, 10:29   Link #72
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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I think it was too late for Kaidou and that Whitebeard had already made up his mind. Shanks was trying to avoid involving yet another Yonkou. Had Kaidou fought Whitebeard that would mean two weakened Yonkous with another (blackbeard) on his way. Its a guess.. Kaidou accompanying Shanks would mean 3 Yonkous involved. And who knows if they would all fight for the same thing anyways, Kaidou could have easily gone for Whitebeards head during the war..

Oh and even if Kaidou didn't have hostile intentions, that wouldn't matter. He was going to oppose Whitebeards will. That means war.
Whitebeard was unrelenting in his resolve, so it was too late for anyone to stop him. Kaido and Whitebeard weakening each other prior to the war most definitely could have been problematic, so that could explain why Shanks intervened.

Another thing to note is that Kaido has quite the fearsome wrath (according to one of his subordinates). With Whitebeard refusing to listen to whatever Kaido has to say, that would probably piss him off to the point where an actual battle would ensue. Shanks, with his good foresight, may have foreseen this, hence the reason why he stepped in.

All we could do at this time is speculate on what exactly happened between these 3 emperors. But my gut instinct tells me Kaido isn't a good person. Of course, I could very well be wrong. But like a few others have already mentioned, I would find it rather anti-climactic if Kaido doesn't turn out to be a villain.

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It seems odd to introduce yet another Yonkou into the mix, before we've even gotten through a single one (not to mention Doffy).
Mihawk and Jimbei (just his name, affiliation, and status) were introduced before we even got to see Crocodile. Kuma and Doflamingo were introduced before we even got to see Moria. I don't see how this scenario is any different.
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Old 2012-11-25, 12:51   Link #73
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All we could do at this time is speculate on what exactly happened between these 3 emperors. But my gut instinct tells me Kaido isn't a good person. Of course, I could very well be wrong. But like a few others have already mentioned, I would find it rather anti-climactic if Kaido doesn't turn out to be a villain.
Ya Kaidou is likely a villain. It as been hinted he not one to cross and he did destroy Moriahs dream of becoming Pirate King.
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Old 2012-11-25, 14:44   Link #74
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All we could do at this time is speculate on what exactly happened between these 3 emperors. But my gut instinct tells me Kaido isn't a good person. Of course, I could very well be wrong. But like a few others have already mentioned, I would find it rather anti-climactic if Kaido doesn't turn out to be a villain.
Kaidou could very well be evil but somebody like X Drake joined him. An ex-marine like him would never join forces with somebody evil unless he wanted to work with Kaidou for a different reason.
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Old 2012-11-25, 16:47   Link #75
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Kaidou could very well be evil but somebody like X Drake joined him. An ex-marine like him would never join forces with somebody evil unless he wanted to work with Kaidou for a different reason.

Uh.... aren't you kind of contradicting yourself here? The very fact that Drake IS an ex-marine makes his motives for joining Kaidou suspect in the first place. Like, what even drove him to become a pirate at all? Sure, his reasons could be similar to that of former admiral Z (disgusted with the WG's acceptance of famous pirates in their ranks), but that would pretty much be a rehash of Z's story right there. How do we know for sure that he DIDN'T just choose to go over to the "dark side" on his own volition.....?
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Old 2012-11-25, 17:44   Link #76
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Uh.... aren't you kind of contradicting yourself here? The very fact that Drake IS an ex-marine makes his motives for joining Kaidou suspect in the first place. Like, what even drove him to become a pirate at all? Sure, his reasons could be similar to that of former admiral Z (disgusted with the WG's acceptance of famous pirates in their ranks), but that would pretty much be a rehash of Z's story right there. How do we know for sure that he DIDN'T just choose to go over to the "dark side" on his own volition.....?
Probably left because he didn't like how the Marines/WG is working so he left. Him getting kicked out is a possibility but he isn't a problem child. A traumatic event similar to what Z been through is wha could have made him leave. Those are some scenarios as to why I think he left. He probably knew about Kaidou before before (Intel from Marines) and how he works so he felt that being with a Yonkou would benefit him the most. He ended up on Kaidous favorite Island somehow. Maybe it was fate or he knew about it before hand and he didn't tell him crew about the surprise .
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Old 2012-11-25, 18:02   Link #77
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Probably left because he didn't like how the Marines/WG is working so he left. Him getting kicked out is a possibility but he isn't a problem child. A traumatic event similar to what Z been through is wha could have made him leave. Those are some scenarios as to why I think he left. He probably knew about Kaidou before before (Intel from Marines) and how he works so he felt that being with a Yonkou would benefit him the most. He ended up on Kaidous favorite Island somehow. Maybe it was fate or he knew about it before hand and he didn't tell him crew about the surprise .
Drake going after Kaidou specifically can mean a lot of things. I never thought of Drake actually joining Kaidou, thought he was after him for something and a possible marine connection. It would throw water at the idea that Kaidou is a villainous character.
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Old 2012-11-25, 19:26   Link #78
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Ya Kaidou is likely a villain. It as been hinted he not one to cross and he did destroy Moriahs dream of becoming Pirate King.
I agree that he will be a villain, I just don't think he is the one purchasing Smiles off Doffy.

Quote:
Mihawk and Jimbei (just his name, affiliation, and status) were introduced before we even got to see Crocodile. Kuma and Doflamingo were introduced before we even got to see Moria. I don't see how this scenario is any different.
Kaidou has already been introduced. We know his name, status and affiliation, do we not?

The difference here is that whilst some of the Shichibukai were indeed introduced before others, here, it is not a mere introduction. The fact that Doflamingo is a supplier to a yonkou means that if Luffy antagonizes him, he will be indirectly making a move against the Yonkou as well. He has already declared war on Big Mom; as Marvel and others have pointed out, the Strawhats are likely not strong enough to take down her whole crew by themselves. They will at the very least require the aid of Jinbei and Law, and maybe Kidd, Hawkins et al. Having Luffy face yet another Yonkou at the very same time would be overkill and over the top.

It makes sense for the Yonkou in question to be Big Mom, simply because she was introduced as an antagonist just 20 chapters ago. The Smiles plotline can tie Doflamingo in with her war against Luffy.
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Old 2012-11-25, 21:08   Link #79
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Having Luffy face yet another Yonkou at the very same time would be overkill and over the top.
Luffy may not necessarily run into Kaido in the near future. Their encounter may be reserved for well after he's already had his altercations with Doffy and Big Mom. I don't deny that the arguments for Big Mom being the one do have merit seeing as how the situation coincides nicely with the supernova alliance and Luffy's declaration of war against her (hence the reason why she's my second-most likely choice).

Just out of curiosity, which emperor do you see being the second-most likely choice?
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Old 2012-11-25, 21:58   Link #80
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Probably Kaidou as well.

There is speculation on the web that Doflamingo's artificial devil fruits could be a way of controlling the minds of the people who have eaten it. This would fit Doffy's puppeteer theme and power of controlling people's actions as well as his ambitious personality and underhanded way of doing things. Taking over a Yonkou's territory by controlling his own zoan army would change the world.. maybe that is what Doflamingo meant when he said that he would usher in a new age, the age of Smiles. Perhaps Doflamingo is doing this in cooperation with the World Government, as I see Akainu being far more pro-active in the fight against piracy then Sengoku was.

That is another reason why I can not see Kaidou being the one targeted by Doflamingo and the World Government. We have seen too little of him, and he is too big of a character to be eliminated off screen.

We have already seen Luffy interact with Big Mom and we know he will fight against her in the future. Doflamingo's plan may initiate just as this is happening.

Of course this is just another possibility, but everything seems to point at Big Mom being the Yonkou in question.
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