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Old 2012-11-26, 15:20   Link #721
Helius
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Bear in mind Halsey was indicted first and foremost for diverting the Spartans for the Onyx expedition at a time when they were most needed to defend Earth, and they were stuck there 'til the end of the war. By all reckoning it was just a pretext so that ONI could lock her up, since I doubt the particulars surrounding the Spartan programme would be made public lest they face enormous scrutiny.

So officially Halsey is a war criminal for gross disobedience and undermining the war effort. The child abductions and the unethical experimentations were just what she was REALLY in for.
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Old 2012-11-26, 15:55   Link #722
SoldierOfDarkness
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And in the end they weren't needed as John pretty much did all the heavy lifting and finished the fight.

That and her actions led to the UNSC discovering a massive cache of Forerunner tech. (Still doesn't excuse the kidnapping Kelly part)
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Old 2012-11-27, 23:07   Link #723
ReaperxKingx
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Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
And in the end they weren't needed as John pretty much did all the heavy lifting and finished the fight.

That and her actions led to the UNSC discovering a massive cache of Forerunner tech. (Still doesn't excuse the kidnapping Kelly part)
It is true that Chief did the bulk of the work defending Earth, but still. Defending Earth would have been a lot easier with the entire Spartan Blue team there. Linda with her sniping skills no one can match, Kelly being the fastest Spartan, and Fred the all rounder Spartan.
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Old 2012-11-27, 23:58   Link #724
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Yeah, but the games would be too easy then. :V
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Old 2012-11-29, 15:08   Link #725
Rising Dragon
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I swear, Matchmaking goes out of its way to make certain challenges impossible to complete. I keep getting teamed up with idiots who refuse to play the gametype that's been selected and only act like its regular team slayer.
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Old 2012-11-29, 19:23   Link #726
Drake
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I'm really starting to lose interest in spartan ops now, theres only so many times I can play the same short handful of recycled levels and its really starting to get dull.

At the moment the only thing that keeps me coming back is the CGI episodes.

I wish they had just updated the regular firefight mode instead by adding objectives on certain waves (ala mass effect 3's multiplayer) or something similar.

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No because it's common knowledge that she was involved in the SPII program as it was detailed in Glasslands where the ODSTs assigned were told about it. If they know then yeah it should be common knowledge. Even then someone would ask, "what did she do with the kids?"

However, as Admiral Hood once pointed out the SPII saved his and many of the UNSC's Top Brass' lives dozens of times along with untold numbers of civilians and soldiers.

And the things they learned from the failed augmentations in the SPII program allowed them to have a 100% success rate with the SPIII and later SPIV program so she made the hard choice.
That hardly makes the entirety of her work common knowledge and if one of the spartan III's had to actually ask who the "old lady" was and getting the reply "She's bad news man. Mad scientist stuff. She created the original Spartans; Master Chief? "Yeah. Story goes, she kidnapped a bunch of kids." (S.O. ep 3) then I wouldn't think they where "fully briefed" on anything that was not need to now so again I think its entirely possible they don't know the extent of her contributions or at least thats what looks to be implied.
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Old 2012-11-29, 20:29   Link #727
ReaperxKingx
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I'm really starting to lose interest in spartan ops now, theres only so many times I can play the same short handful of recycled levels and its really starting to get dull.

At the moment the only thing that keeps me coming back is the CGI episodes.

I wish they had just updated the regular firefight mode instead by adding objectives on certain waves (ala mass effect 3's multiplayer) or something similar.



That hardly makes the entirety of her work common knowledge and if one of the spartan III's had to actually ask who the "old lady" was and getting the reply "She's bad news man. Mad scientist stuff. She created the original Spartans; Master Chief? "Yeah. Story goes, she kidnapped a bunch of kids." (S.O. ep 3) then I wouldn't think they where "fully briefed" on anything that was not need to now so again I think its entirely possible they don't know the extent of her contributions or at least thats what looks to be implied.
You mean Spartan IVs.
As for Halsey, ONI is now headed by Margaret Parangosky. Margaret will ensure to keep Halsey on a leash by making sure the public view Halsey negatively.
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Old 2012-11-29, 21:09   Link #728
Roger Rambo
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No because it's common knowledge that she was involved in the SPII program as it was detailed in Glasslands where the ODSTs assigned were told about it.
They were told by Osman, who was a participant in the program, and being groomed to be the next head of ONI.



...mind. That was one of the most mind numblingly dumb parts of that novel. Here you have the future head of an interstellar spy agency for a highly militarized society that's been fighting for survival for decades....and she lets ultra classified material like that slip to a bunch of grunts?



Yep. This is the kind of person you want running high risk clandestine covert operations in Elite space. Someone who randomly blurts ultra top secret material randomly to people on an emotional whim.
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Old 2012-11-29, 21:12   Link #729
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We're talking about a woman whose grand plan is to kill the one person in charge of the Elites who wants peace with humanity so there's no big war and put the Elite who wants to destroy humanity in charge to... avoid a war with the Elites.
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Old 2012-11-29, 21:50   Link #730
Roger Rambo
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We're talking about a woman whose grand plan is to kill the one person in charge of the Elites who wants peace with humanity so there's no big war and put the Elite who wants to destroy humanity in charge to... avoid a war with the Elites.
See, this is why I can't take Parangosky seriously.

What she's doing is arguably just as morally dubious as what Halsey did...without the benefit of actually being a workable plan...or not a completely moronic plan.
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Old 2012-11-29, 21:58   Link #731
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See, this is why I can't take Parangosky seriously.

What she's doing is arguably just as morally dubious as what Halsey did...without the benefit of actually being a workable plan...or not a completely moronic plan.
Margaret Parangosky is described as an old women, whose ability to make anyone who crosses her disappear (the only exception is you know who, Catherine Halsey). In a sense about Margaret Parangosky, you are right about her making controversial moves. The only thing is Halsey felt guilt what she did to John and the others, while Margaret Parangosky believe whatever questionable actions she done all contributed to the survival of the human race.

Wonder why Sarin decided to be her wing instead of taking the option to become a Spartan II again?
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Old 2012-11-29, 21:58   Link #732
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Well it's more complicated. What she was hoping to accomplish is to have a civil war among the Elites that would cripple their military power, since the Elites currently have no way of producing anything without the Prophets. And to do that she had to support the aggressor.

That, of course, doesn't change the fact that it was an incredibly stupid, incredibly risky plan that has countless ways of backfiring in her face. She's lucky that the plan worked, and everyone else is lucky that the Arbiter is still on top, but IIRC Paragonsky/ONI wants to wipe the Elites out for good, which is a really good reason as to why ONI needs to be put down. It's become a rabid dog.
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Old 2012-11-29, 22:30   Link #733
Roger Rambo
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That, of course, doesn't change the fact that it was an incredibly stupid, incredibly risky plan that has countless ways of backfiring in her face. She's lucky that the plan worked, and everyone else is lucky that the Arbiter is still on top, but IIRC Paragonsky/ONI wants to wipe the Elites out for good, which is a really good reason as to why ONI needs to be put down. It's become a rabid dog.
Which quite frankly, puts Paragonsky having ANY pretension of judging Halsey absolutely ludicrous.


What Paragonsky is doing is just as questionably moral as what Halsey did...but that doesn't make them equal. Cause no matter how you cut it, Halsey's plan didn't represent an existential threat to the human race if it backfired.



But, Traviss has to Traviss. And there's only one crazy old cat lady senile enough to channel as her mouthpiece.
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Old 2012-11-29, 22:31   Link #734
SoldierOfDarkness
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
We're talking about a woman whose grand plan is to kill the one person in charge of the Elites who wants peace with humanity so there's no big war and put the Elite who wants to destroy humanity in charge to... avoid a war with the Elites.
In all fairness it wasn't too long ago that the elites were trying to exterminate the human race.

In any case though it is a stupid plan because by supplying weapons and equipment she's actually making them stronger and learning new tech and such. Not to mention it's an extremely delicate balance and the more you get involved the more dangerous it becomes.

I mean hell, look at the Storm Covenant. Had ONI not been doing their runs that never would've happened.
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Old 2012-11-29, 22:39   Link #735
Roger Rambo
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In all fairness it wasn't too long ago that the elites were trying to exterminate the human race.
Indeed...on the other hand, the only reason the human race survived at all was because the current Elite leader came to realize how boneheaded this all was.
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I mean hell, look at the Storm Covenant. Had ONI not been doing their runs that never would've happened.
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeep. Didn't that turn out to be a bone headed move, didn't it Parangosky?


I really hope this gets shoved into Parangosky's face like a bloody sledgehammer. That Halsey did monstrous things, but on account of not being idiots, created soldiers who could save the human race. Parangosky gave a shot at that, and gift wrapped an army of militant religious fanatics to an ancient super warrior who wants to annihilate humanity.
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Old 2012-11-29, 22:40   Link #736
Rising Dragon
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Which quite frankly, puts Paragonsky having ANY pretension of judging Halsey absolutely ludicrous.

What Paragonsky is doing is just as questionably moral as what Halsey did...but that doesn't make them equal. Cause no matter how you cut it, Halsey's plan didn't represent an existential threat to the human race if it backfired.
To her credit, Paragonsky admits to herself she's a hypocrite in regards to her accusations of Halsey. And also to her credit, Paragonsky's planning on turning herself in, but unfortunately she's so old that the punishment means nothing to her; she's almost dead anyway.

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In all fairness it wasn't too long ago that the elites were trying to exterminate the human race.
Fairness hell. Either side attempting to destroy the other after such a lengthy, misguided and deception-based war simply because the other side is still a bit of a threat would make the Elites/Humans no better than the Prophets, since they tried to kill humanity for being a threat to their whole lie of a religion.
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Old 2012-11-29, 22:46   Link #737
Roger Rambo
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To her credit, Paragonsky admits to herself she's a hypocrite in regards to her accusations of Halsey. And also to her credit, Paragonsky's planning on turning herself in, but unfortunately she's so old that the punishment means nothing to her; she's almost dead anyway.
You only get partial credit for admitting what a horrible person you are in the game of "HARD MEN MAKING HARD DECISIONS". If you're going to do something this horrible, you've got to at justify it by even a slight margin by having it actually work.


If it's hypocritical for Paragonsky to judge Halsey when they're both the same, it's utterly unacceptable when you realize Paragonsky's legacy is one of incompetence and failure.
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Old 2012-11-30, 00:30   Link #738
SoldierOfDarkness
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Indeed...on the other hand, the only reason the human race survived at all was because the current Elite leader came to realize how boneheaded this all was.
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeep. Didn't that turn out to be a bone headed move, didn't it Parangosky?


I really hope this gets shoved into Parangosky's face like a bloody sledgehammer. That Halsey did monstrous things, but on account of not being idiots, created soldiers who could save the human race. Parangosky gave a shot at that, and gift wrapped an army of militant religious fanatics to an ancient super warrior who wants to annihilate humanity.
She probably would never know anways. Question is what Serin thinks afterwards.

In any case all it takes is for Jul to make contact with Telcam and the Arbiter won't have a say in what'll happen next.

Quote:
To her credit, Paragonsky admits to herself she's a hypocrite in regards to her accusations of Halsey. And also to her credit, Paragonsky's planning on turning herself in, but unfortunately she's so old that the punishment means nothing to her; she's almost dead anyway.
I wouldn't give any credit in fact I would call her a coward for taking the easy way out. ONI is a secret agency that survived and helped humanity pull through by doing what was necessary (IE. Spartan II and III program and other things). The fact that she won't reveal the III program just shows her hypocrispy and turning herself in when she's almost dead is just plain cowardice.

And revealing these things when there are new enemies on the horizon is the last thing the UNSC needs as it could end up turning public opinion against ONI and the UNSC in general and neutering it. Some things are best kept in the dark.
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Old 2012-11-30, 00:45   Link #739
Roger Rambo
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She probably would never know anways. Question is what Serin thinks afterwards.

In any case all it takes is for Jul to make contact with Telcam and the Arbiter won't have a say in what'll happen next.
Well I'd certainly hope that at the very least, Osman would feel like a big bloody idiot. Especially since her and her squad of meat heads mostly went around propping up fanatical elites.
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Old 2012-12-02, 06:40   Link #740
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