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View Poll Results: Psycho-Pass - Episode 8 Rating
Perfect 10 25 37.31%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 21 31.34%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 14 20.90%
7 out of 10 : Good 4 5.97%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 1.49%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 1.49%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 1.49%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 67. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-11-30, 11:56   Link #41
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creb View Post
For all the discussion that goes on about the good/bad/morality of this social system, I've always thought it was pretty clear the show's intentions are strongly tilted to one perspective.
Agreed. I argued precisely this a long time ago. It's fine for us to debate the good/bad/morality of this social system, but I think it's very clear that Gen himself is presenting it in a decidedly negative light. It's not entirely bad, of course, because then it would be unrealistic. But I think it's clear that, on the whole, the narrative is coming down against this social system, and I think you'll see more of that in the episodes to come.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gohan78 View Post
It's not so much that all art has been banned, otherwise there wouldn't be an art class in that school (and we've seen Masaoka painting in a previous episode). I think that art is subjected to strong censorship and all pieces that are deemed dangerous for the psychological health of the public are banned.
Agreed. But that's almost as bad, in my mind, since art is rather subjective.


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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
I guess my main issue with the series is with all the crime still happening I am hard pressed to see how this system made life better in anyway and I don't even need Makishima's poetry to tell me this (as much as I do love to hear Sakurai quote Shakespeare)
Well, my impression is that this police force is...

1) Rather small. It seems to only have two detectives, six or so Enforcers, and a small support staff.

2) In charge of handling crime for an entire large, metropolitan area.

It's not surprising that this team is busy, because they're not that large and they're handling an entire city. The fact that this team is apparently sufficient to handle an entire city says that crime probably isn't all that common, in all likelihood. The crime rate has probably gone done, on the whole.
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Old 2012-11-30, 12:35   Link #42
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That end so good

and wow more than 400 at the denominator ?
Anyway glad she died loosing her head , contrary to mami , she deserved it totally
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Old 2012-11-30, 15:31   Link #43
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Er ignore that 2 in the poll, that was an acccident, menat ot give a 10/10 .

Well that episode was just all around amazing. I feel that if I tried to write anything about it, it wouldn't be worthy of its greatness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
I guess my main issue with the series is with all the crime still happening I am hard pressed to see how this system made life better in anyway and I don't even need Makishima's poetry to tell me this (as much as I do love to hear Sakurai quote Shakespeare)
Well it really depends on how you look at it. We have been shown that this is a society that limits all their stress. We don't even have to worry about our futures because we can easily determine what our aptitude is for certain things. Essentially everyone is mentally healthier, and if they are not and cannot be treated for it, they are removed from the population. A mentally healthier society is a better society isn't it?

Last edited by Reckoner; 2012-11-30 at 15:48.
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Old 2012-11-30, 17:22   Link #44
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Rikako presents a really interesting analysis of the school system and society at the start of the show where she describes how the system is in place to raise people to fulfill a certain ideal that society demands of them regardless of how they would mature otherwise and into what philosophy they would invest their beliefs. The interesting thing is a society that allows it's children to raise themselves and forge it's own belief systems independent of what society demands of them wouldn't be seen as anything other than anarchy by the very standards of what we deem a society.

It's been a while since an anime has made me think this hard about the situations and ideas it presents and where there are no easy or really wrong answers.
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Old 2012-11-30, 19:00   Link #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Well it really depends on how you look at it. We have been shown that this is a society that limits all their stress. We don't even have to worry about our futures because we can easily determine what our aptitude is for certain things. Essentially everyone is mentally healthier, and if they are not and cannot be treated for it, they are removed from the population. A mentally healthier society is a better society isn't it?
This might be true but the series in my opinion did a poor job of showing this. It jumped right into the dystopia aspects instead of building up a false utopia.

I am not necessarily saying Psycho Pass's world is a dystopia but I think they could have done a better job of showing the positives of this system. I don't think we should agree with Makishima right away or at least there should be more debate.


Don't get me wrong I highly enjoyed the episode and the show as a whole but its more for the character building, the dialog, and the promising upcoming psychological battle between Kogami & Makishima.
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Old 2012-11-30, 19:47   Link #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
This might be true but the series in my opinion did a poor job of showing this. It jumped right into the dystopia aspects instead of building up a false utopia.
Did 1984 build up a false utopia? Did Huxley's Brave New World? Did Shin Sekai Yori?

All of these narratives very quickly delve into the negatives of their dystopian settings.

If a writer has a particular and troubling vision of the future that he or she wants to explore (and perhaps even present as a warning to the rest of us), I don't think that writer should feel a need to be ambiguous about that vision just for the sheer sake of ambiguity itself.


Gen presents a future where humans are over-medicated (to the point that the average human lifespan is actually decreasing), and overly reliant on machines and systems geared to measure and maintain psychological health to maximum efficiency, no matter what the cost. Gen almost certainly sees the real dangers in a world like that. In fact, with this latest arc, it's clear how Gen personally could feel very threatened by a world like Psycho-Pass. Would the VN Saya no Uta survive in a world like Psycho-Pass? I very much doubt it.

When portraying a futuristic setting, the key is not ambiguity, moral or otherwise. The key is believability. And here is where Psyco-Pass works exceptionally well, imo. It's not hard at all to see how, in a generation or two, our world could look a lot like the one in Psycho-Pass'.

And that's what makes the world of Psycho-Pass so interesting, and chilling, to me.



Quote:
I am not necessarily saying Psycho Pass's world is a dystopia but I think they could have done a better job of showing the positives of this system. I don't think we should agree with Makishima right away or at least there should be more debate.
Makishima is right about the world of Psycho-Pass, imo, but that doesn't mean he's some "pure white" character. The man obviously has a lot of blood on his hands, and raises the old "Do the ends justify the means?" question (and that question does retain some moral ambiguity).

If you need ambiguity, here is where you find an intriguing case of it.

The protagonists are generally good people who want to do the right thing... but are ultimately enablers of a horrible system.

The antagonists are generally horrible people who are entertained by toy-criminals brutally victimizing innocent, moe girls (how much more evil can you get in anime?! )... but those antagonists are right about the system.


Darth Vader and his top Storm Troopers really are great guys with good intentions, while Luke Skywalker and Han Solo are total scumbags who love watching innocent people die... but The Empire needs to come crashing down all the same. Now that's quite the twist on the old "white hats vs. black hats" approach, imo.
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Old 2012-11-30, 20:07   Link #47
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Good stuff, Urobutcher. "Titus Andronicus" is your favorite Shakepeare play, right?

I like how they play "Ode to Joy" when the old guy is speaking. Very Evangelion-esque.

The murders are good and gruesome, but I thought the scariest part of this episode were the prisoners; the Hannibal Lecter equivalent that they questioned (I forget his name) with the "skinless" tattoo was pretty bad, but I thought the creepiest inmate was the guy with all those dolls. Was that guy supposed to be an otaku?

Ayane Sakura (she played Kagami's friend) also did a heartbreaking crying scene. Wish I could've been there to hug her character, which of course is what all crying scenes should do.
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Old 2012-11-30, 20:11   Link #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Did 1984 build up a false utopia? Did Huxley's Brave New World? Did Shin Sekai Yori?

All of these narratives very quickly delve into the negatives of their dystopian settings.
I have not read Brave New World but I just feel Shin Sekai Yori and especially 1984 had much better world building.

At its core I also feel 1984 is a warning about the future (that book's message still frightens me) that doesn't work as well for me with Psycho Pass.

Quote:
Gen presents a future where humans are over-medicated (to the point that the average human lifespan is actually decreasing), and overly reliant on machines and systems geared to measure and maintain psychological health to maximum efficiency, no matter what the cost. Gen almost certainly sees the real dangers in a world like that. In fact, with this latest arc, it's clear how Gen personally could feel very threatened by a world like Psycho-Pass. Would the VN Saya no Uta survive in a world like Psycho-Pass? I very much doubt it.[

When portraying a futuristic setting, the key is not ambiguity, moral or otherwise. The key is believability. And here is where Psyco-Pass works exceptionally well, imo. It's not hard at all to see how, in a generation or two, our world could look a lot like the one in Psycho-Pass'.

And that's what makes the world of Psycho-Pass so interesting, and chilling, to me.
But that's my problem I can't see why a world like this would be created because the system seems so flawed in the first place. Perhaps later on in the series there will be an episode explaining why this system came about, but for now this aspect of the world building feels a bit weak to me.





Quote:
Makishima is right about the world of Psycho-Pass, imo, but that doesn't mean he's some "pure white" character. The man obviously has a lot of blood on his hands, and raises the old "Do the ends justify the means?" question (and that question does retain some moral ambiguity).
Of course Makishima is not pure white and of course the end doesn't justify the means. I don't really see any ambiguity here. His reasoning might be right the system is wrong, but his methods are also wrong. That's pretty clear cut to me.

Even though I find him to be a fascinating villain and I am looking forward to watching more of him, I still see him very clearly as a villain.


Quote:
The protagonists are generally good people who want to do the right thing... but are ultimately enablers of a horrible system.

The antagonists are generally horrible people who are entertained by toy-criminals brutally victimizing innocent, moe girls (how much more evil can you get in anime?! )... but those antagonists are right about the system.
I'll admit this is an interesting way to look at it & I do like this aspect. I am not saying the characters or story are not interesting though, it's the set up of the world itself that doesn't fully work for me.


edit: What I mean is I can see where a world where people try to create a stress free environment might happen. The warnings about censorship of art for example work for me.

However assuming a stress free environment should create a world that initially looks to be free of crime or at least less crime, but right away we see crime hasn't gone away at all and heck it doesn't even seem stress has gone away (even though this is what the system supposedly does). People are so worried about keeping their psycho pass clean, if anything that society seems more worried to not be worried.
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Old 2012-11-30, 20:12   Link #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyjay729 View Post

The murders are good and gruesome, but I thought the scariest part of this episode were the prisoners; the Hannibal Lecter equivalent that they questioned (I forget his name) with the "skinless" tattoo was pretty bad, but I thought the creepiest inmate was the guy with all those dolls. Was that guy supposed to be an otaku?
Good pick-up. That's my take too. Specifically, I think that was a little Rozen Maiden reference.

MariMite deconstruction and Rozen Maiden reference... Gen has interesting mid-00s anime inspirations, lol.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
I have not read Brave New World but I just feel Shin Sekai Yori and especially 1984 had much better world building.

At its core I also feel 1984 is a warning about the future (that book's message still frightens me) that doesn't work as well for me with Psycho Pass.



But that's my problem I can't see why a world like this would be created because the system seems so flawed in the first place. Perhaps later on in the series there will be an episode explaining why this system came about, but for now this aspect of the world building feels a bit weak to me.
Ok, I see your point here. I personally see some important implications here and there pertaining to why this system arose, but admittedly the narrative could probably handle this a bit better, or at least more clearly.
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Old 2012-11-30, 20:53   Link #50
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Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
This might be true but the series in my opinion did a poor job of showing this. It jumped right into the dystopia aspects instead of building up a false utopia.

I am not necessarily saying Psycho Pass's world is a dystopia but I think they could have done a better job of showing the positives of this system. I don't think we should agree with Makishima right away or at least there should be more debate.
Well you're essentially wondering how the system could arise in the first place. Stories like 1984 built off the ideas of totalitarian governments of the time and pushed them to their logical extremes to showcase a possible negative future. So what does Psycho;Pass build off in similar fashion?

The entire story is predicated on the ability to determine criminality before a crime is even committed. This is a very basic question... Would a society if it had such an ability use it to protect themselves? This is the logical extension of the choice to use such an ability.

Of course much of the story so far has been detailing potential ways such a system could be flawed, but has anything been presented so damning that this society is inherently worse than ours for a majority of people? I do not believe so and that is why I think such a system can be in place.

At least that's the way I see it, not saying you have to agree or anything of course .
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Old 2012-11-30, 21:02   Link #51
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And so the criminal gets a taste of her own medicine. I wonder if they'll find out that she's been murdered, and if they do, it'll be interesting to see what they can deduce from it and see what leads they find and where it takes them next.
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Old 2012-11-30, 21:28   Link #52
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And so the criminal gets a taste of her own medicine. I wonder if they'll find out that she's been murdered, and if they do, it'll be interesting to see what they can deduce from it and see what leads they find and where it takes them next.
If not, Kougami definitely will find out more about Makishima. The dude is using his real face playing teacher at the school and has his voice recorded. Maybe he was deliberately leaving some clues, but Kougami should be able to dig out something.

The double-plastic statue scared the hell out of me this episode. The bodies curled around each other, and the heads....
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Old 2012-11-30, 21:28   Link #53
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Did 1984 build up a false utopia? Did Huxley's Brave New World? Did Shin Sekai Yori?

All of these narratives very quickly delve into the negatives of their dystopian settings.

If a writer has a particular and troubling vision of the future that he or she wants to explore (and perhaps even present as a warning to the rest of us), I don't think that writer should feel a need to be ambiguous about that vision just for the sheer sake of ambiguity itself.


Gen presents a future where humans are over-medicated (to the point that the average human lifespan is actually decreasing), and overly reliant on machines and systems geared to measure and maintain psychological health to maximum efficiency, no matter what the cost. Gen almost certainly sees the real dangers in a world like that. In fact, with this latest arc, it's clear how Gen personally could feel very threatened by a world like Psycho-Pass. Would the VN Saya no Uta survive in a world like Psycho-Pass? I very much doubt it.

When portraying a futuristic setting, the key is not ambiguity, moral or otherwise. The key is believability. And here is where Psyco-Pass works exceptionally well, imo. It's not hard at all to see how, in a generation or two, our world could look a lot like the one in Psycho-Pass'.

And that's what makes the world of Psycho-Pass so interesting, and chilling, to me.





Makishima is right about the world of Psycho-Pass, imo, but that doesn't mean he's some "pure white" character. The man obviously has a lot of blood on his hands, and raises the old "Do the ends justify the means?" question (and that question does retain some moral ambiguity).

If you need ambiguity, here is where you find an intriguing case of it.

The protagonists are generally good people who want to do the right thing... but are ultimately enablers of a horrible system.

The antagonists are generally horrible people who are entertained by toy-criminals brutally victimizing innocent, moe girls (how much more evil can you get in anime?! )... but those antagonists are right about the system.


Darth Vader and his top Storm Troopers really are great guys with good intentions, while Luke Skywalker and Han Solo are total scumbags who love watching innocent people die... but The Empire needs to come crashing down all the same. Now that's quite the twist on the old "white hats vs. black hats" approach, imo.


It seems your rep is too full, I cant rep yor anymore for that post
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Old 2012-11-30, 22:14   Link #54
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Well, I think it's most fitting, 'cause it presents a different kind of psychological control, through fear. Kind of like the public hangings back in the Wild West.
Which is a bit contrarian to the sterile, rotting to death setting of this society as a whole.


I doubt the public in general even knows what the Lethal Mode does

Quote:
Would the VN Saya no Uta survive in a world like Psycho-Pass?
Depends if Saya can remain undetected enough to spore the planet. Or if she can even be read by the Dominator.


Yeah, I know you mean the work itself but it's quite clear art in that society is boring in general so....






Also, the politician's hippocampus being shoved up his ass in response to him saying "I don't remember" was pretty funny. As was Masaoka scaring girls
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Old 2012-11-30, 22:54   Link #55
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Also does anyone else think that whoever set up the system in the first place, if they were subjected to Sibyl, what would the result be.
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Old 2012-12-01, 01:01   Link #56
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Another question to ask would be this:

Do people like this exist precisely because the Sibyl System created them? Because from what I see Makishima is intentionally looking for people who are aware of of Sibyl's dominance yet seek to break the metaphorical chains binding them from their... "potentials".

I use the word potential, and not criminal capacity, because he now seems to find Kogami a curiosity. It seems that criminal capability is not his main criteria for choosing. He is looking for people who stand unique, and probably apart, from the rest of the people zombified by Sibyl, whether it's in criminal activities or not. People who have the capacity to rebel from the system in one way or another, to make something of themselves apart from the "mindless and mediocre masses" who live under the system.

So, essentially, an Ubermensch concept.
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Old 2012-12-01, 01:18   Link #57
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Pace seems too fast for this series, IMO. Still waiting for them to explore other character's past, instead of just Kougami. But seems like it's now rushing to end already.
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Old 2012-12-01, 02:10   Link #58
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Pace seems too fast for this series, IMO. Still waiting for them to explore other character's past, instead of just Kougami. But seems like it's now rushing to end already.
...it's 22 episodes long. I'd hardly call being on episode 8 rushing to the end already.
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Old 2012-12-01, 03:04   Link #59
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Pace seems too fast for this series, IMO. Still waiting for them to explore other character's past, instead of just Kougami. But seems like it's now rushing to end already.
YES me too I want the past of Yayoi
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Old 2012-12-01, 05:22   Link #60
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Pace seems too fast for this series, IMO. Still waiting for them to explore other character's past, instead of just Kougami. But seems like it's now rushing to end already.
It's 22 episodes, but since I'm also watching for character building, I can't wait to explore and learn things from other detectives' pasts.
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