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Old 2003-12-15, 20:04   Link #1
Blade556
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Bittorrent Flaw?

Well, I was downloading Star Ocean EX, and I noticed that whenever you download something with the Bittorrent client, it ALWAYS waits for availiable users. Yet, in the picture shown here:



It describes it as a download FROM the server as well. So, in theory, why shouldn't Torrents be any different from a regular download? If you're supposed to be connecting to a server, why not download it from there AS WELL as from other users? Granted, bandwidth would be much more consumed, but that aside, it's a good solution, ESPECIALLY for those of us downloading files with almost NO seeds.

A perfect flaw to the perfect system, if I may
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Old 2003-12-15, 20:59   Link #2
JustAnotherFan
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What you call server in there is the initial seed IMHO and then the picture works fine. The server you talk about is "just" the tracker, which might be on the same machine as a seed or not.

Quote:
Granted, bandwidth would be much more consumed, but that aside,
But that aside? It's the reason!

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Old 2003-12-15, 22:14   Link #3
Blade556
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That's probably the way the system works. But what I'm saying is that wouldn't it be better, for the torrents with little or no seeds, to have at least one seed going to get it started?

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Speculation Box
Now, about the whole bandwidth issue. Propose there could be a way to limit the amount of data tansferring to the end user, the downloader, through the client. Propose that Bittorrent could make it NOT just a P2P, but a more advanced way of downloading. Based on the current engine, just add support for direct download.
Of course, I'm really no programmer, and probably the last person to ever say something like this, but think about it. Think of the possibilities it could accomplish...
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Old 2003-12-16, 17:00   Link #4
Keen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One
Well, the original purpose of BT was to reduce bandwith from servers with big downloads. So basically in a 'normal' BT environment, the one who sets up the tracker also should set up the server which provides the download (as initial seed) for as long as he wished his file to be distributed.
Although in real life, people will leave trackers running, then take down that original seed, which if you ask me is kinda sick.
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Old 2003-12-16, 17:03   Link #5
NoSanninWa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keen
Although in real life, people will leave trackers running, then take down that original seed, which if you ask me is kinda sick.
I don't know why you say sick? That's a big feature of BitTorrent and a great reason to use it for distro. Once the torrent is well seeded the provider doesn't need to use his bandwidth to maintain it anymore. Since maintaining a tracker uses comparatively little bandwidth it can be left up for other people's use at relatively little cost just so that someone can give a shout out for reseeding whenever it becomes necessary.

If it wasn't possible to leave up the tracker without a seed, then distribution of these files would cease as soon as the provider couldn't afford it any more.
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Old 2003-12-16, 17:27   Link #6
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I want to initialize this post with that: I Think that BT is the greatest innovation of the last 5000 years. Steam engine? AH! Who needs that?
Said that, if you think my opinions are biased, dont worry, they are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade556
Well, I was downloading Star Ocean EX, and I noticed that whenever you download something with the Bittorrent client, it ALWAYS waits for availiable users.
That what seeders are for. There are people who enjoy sharing files, you might want to ask in the resharing request for that kind of help. That will help not only you, but the whole flood of people trying to download the same file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade556
Yet, in the picture shown here:

The server is the main seeder, the one with the full file and a relatively fast connection. It ACTS as a server because he is only uploading, but in fact, he is just like all the other users.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade556
It describes it as a download FROM the server as well.
No, Its downloading from the guy who acts as a server.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade556
So, in theory, why shouldn't Torrents be any different from a regular download?
No, in fact they are. The great feature of BT is that you can host a little 15k file on your site, and you dont have to care about BW usage or server problems. You seed the file, peoples download from you, more people will start the download, and the circle of life starts. Notice that there is no BW usage needed anymore, as all the speed is taken from the downloaders (no more leeching, \o/)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade556
If you're supposed to be connecting to a server, why not download it from there AS WELL as from other users?
No, since BW costs money, and you can seed a file with your connection (even a little 40k/s upload, which costs no as much money as a server) even without a fast server. Where is the greatness of BT? That you have to upload too, and therefore you are acting like a little server yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade556
Granted, bandwidth would be much more consumed, but that aside, it's a good solution,
No, this period is just plain selfish. Good solution for you, UTTERLY bad solution for someone who wants to send a song or whatever to a group of people, or for someone who wants to put his work online without spending too much money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade556
ESPECIALLY for those of us downloading files with almost NO seeds.
No, if you need a seed there is the resharing request, or the forums of the site that hosts the torrent, you cant ask for a whole server just because files are unseeded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade556
A perfect flaw to the perfect system,
No, try harder next time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade556
if I may
You may.....not? This thread is just a subtle way to whine about the fact that you cant find a seed for a file, isnt it?
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Old 2003-12-16, 18:17   Link #7
Blade556
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I don't know about now, but when i was downloading yesterday, there were about 7 seeds. It was merely an observation I made. It is not a complaint, or I would have said complaint. It is not a resharing request. I am not selfish.

"The perfect flaw to the perfect system". I agree, that was a little...how to say...stupid of me to say, as it's not really a flaw, just an oversight, perhaps purposely overlooked.
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Old 2003-12-16, 18:21   Link #8
NoSanninWa
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It wasn't an oversight or overlooked. Please re-read what I and others have said. There are good reasons why it was engineered purposefully into the design.
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Old 2003-12-18, 17:03   Link #9
Keen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSanninWa
I don't know why you say sick? That's a big feature of BitTorrent and a great reason to use it for distro. Once the torrent is well seeded the provider doesn't need to use his bandwidth to maintain it anymore. Since maintaining a tracker uses comparatively little bandwidth it can be left up for other people's use at relatively little cost just so that someone can give a shout out for reseeding whenever it becomes necessary.

If it wasn't possible to leave up the tracker without a seed, then distribution of these files would cease as soon as the provider couldn't afford it any more.
However, many people don't reseed torrents that they're serving as trackers for, ergo sick. Theoretically, a client could be written that would be useful in this regard, but I haven't heard of it yet.
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Old 2003-12-18, 17:04   Link #10
Keen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash_Squirrel
No, in fact they are. The great feature of BT is that you can host a little 15k file on your site, and you dont have to care about BW usage or server problems. You seed the file, peoples download from you, more people will start the download, and the circle of life starts. Notice that there is no BW usage needed anymore, as all the speed is taken from the downloaders (no more leeching, \o/)
Not quite. The original person with the file needs to have a tracker, which does use bandwidth.
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Old 2003-12-18, 17:39   Link #11
Flash_Squirrel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keen
Not quite. The original person with the file needs to have a tracker, which does use bandwidth.
Let's compare 200mb BW usage with 15kb BW usage then.

WOW! IT'S DIFFERENT!
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Old 2003-12-18, 17:42   Link #12
hunterx
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The reason it waits is because each client in the torrent has only a number of slots for uploading. so even if you connect to the server, the server might already be uploading to others and not have time for you. when it waits, more clients appear who have available slots to send to you
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Old 2003-12-18, 20:21   Link #13
Keen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash_Squirrel
Let's compare 200mb BW usage with 15kb BW usage then.

WOW! IT'S DIFFERENT!
YOU SAID IT USES NO BANDWIDTH. 0 is less than 15kb! WOW! IT'S DIFFERENT!
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Old 2003-12-18, 20:44   Link #14
Keitaro
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I see no flaws with Bit-Torrent. Why complain, it sure beats the hell out of trying to dload anime off of P2P file sharing programs or IRC.
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Old 2003-12-22, 11:08   Link #15
Blade556
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Well, ok, perhaps its not a flaw, like I stated earlier. But I do agree with that sentiment. I hate kazaa! Say "I" if you hate kazaa!
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Old 2003-12-22, 23:48   Link #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keen
YOU SAID IT USES NO BANDWIDTH. 0 is less than 15kb! WOW! IT'S DIFFERENT!
Read my post then, since you obviosuly jumped it all at once.
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