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Old 2012-11-27, 08:06   Link #1081
aohige
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeyesvn View Post
But geisha is not really prostitution, right ? If we want to compare, they're more like escort lady or belly dancer of Ancient Arab. They concentrate on singing and dancing much more and prostitution is not always required.

Not to mention "tayuu" and "yuukaku" are high ranks in geisha, those that reach these ranks are very famous in society. And they also don't live in slum ^^
Nooo dude, wrong word.

Yuukaku is a whorehouse, not a title of a person.
The highest prostitue in a yuukaku is called an "oiran".
Tayuu is a title from geisha, but also used originally in yuukaku.
But "oiran" became a more common phrase for expensive high-class prostitute in yuukaku.

You're looking up wrong words. Go look up oiran.
Heck, I'll save you the trouble. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oiran

And the slum crap isn't really the issue, I'm not comparing oiran to slum prostitutes.
I'm denouncing the above poster's prejudice that there was no time in history where prostitutes had respect.
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Last edited by aohige; 2012-11-27 at 11:36.
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Old 2012-11-27, 20:55   Link #1082
Rainrir
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Regardless of what is said before, I always thought that by "respectable" (in the way Alibaba and Kassim used to refer to Anise) it means that unlike Kassim's father who was a bum, or Kassim who went to rob people, Anise was at least making a living by her own honest effort.


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Old 2012-11-28, 01:54   Link #1083
orion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Nooo dude, wrong word.

Yuukaku is a whorehouse, not a title of a person.
The highest prostitue in a yuukaku is called an "oiran".
Tayuu is a title from geisha, but also used originally in yuukaku.
But "oiran" became a more common phrase for expensive high-class prostitute in yuukaku.

You're looking up wrong words. Go look up oiran.
Heck, I'll save you the trouble. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oiran

And the slum crap isn't really the issue, I'm not comparing oiran to slum prostitutes.
I'm denouncing the above poster's prejudice that there was no time in history where prostitutes had respect.
So they were "educated prostitutes". No article tells what happens to them when they fall out of favor or get too old. I don't think that much respect was really given to these ladies that were sold into their careers. It's all fancy mirrors to differentiate themselves from their "lower class" brethren.
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Old 2012-11-28, 02:54   Link #1084
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Some men like older women.
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Old 2012-11-28, 03:27   Link #1085
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Some men like older women.
Prob not back then.
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Old 2012-11-28, 06:10   Link #1086
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2000 years ago, people married when they reach 13yo ( boys ) or 12 ( girls ). If some families are closed, they might even have their children matched since when they're not born yet. And in ancient Middle East, woman are treated as second class people ( Slaves are not consider people, they're goods for trading ) so I don't think Alibaba's mom had much chance in getting a better life. The emperor's family would do everything to protect their's reputation.

So I think back then, most men like younger woman.
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Old 2012-11-28, 06:26   Link #1087
aohige
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
So they were "educated prostitutes". No article tells what happens to them when they fall out of favor or get too old. I don't think that much respect was really given to these ladies that were sold into their careers. It's all fancy mirrors to differentiate themselves from their "lower class" brethren.
You can think and assume however you want.
But remember, it doesn't mean your assumption of the era is accurate, speak for everyone, nor does your contemporary judgemental value represent the Edo Japanese.
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Last edited by aohige; 2012-11-28 at 06:46. Reason: grammmmmmar
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Old 2012-11-28, 20:59   Link #1088
Rainrir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
So they were "educated prostitutes". No article tells what happens to them when they fall out of favor...
Considering the system of conservative patronage in old Japan (by old I mean Tokugawa), anyone that falls out of any kind of favor usually would have a sucky path before them, that applies to the samurai too. So you aren't saying anything by referring to their fate if they "fall out of favor".

As for old age, that's really a complicated question to answer in full.
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Old 2012-11-28, 22:13   Link #1089
orion
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Originally Posted by aohige View Post
You can think and assume however you want.
But remember, it doesn't mean your assumption of the era is accurate, speak for everyone, nor does your contemporary judgemental value represent the Edo Japanese.
True but even by wiki most of these girls were sold into their profession. You can glorify it all you want. Those girls were sold into prostitution, got a better education and relied on rich men patronage to live that lifestyle. When the money evaporated, they were prob SOL. I agree to disagree.
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Old 2012-11-28, 22:57   Link #1090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
You can think and assume however you want.
But remember, it doesn't mean your assumption of the era is accurate, speak for everyone, nor does your contemporary judgemental value represent the Edo Japanese.
Also in the wild west, prostitutes were not looked down on (it was legal) as they are today. Hell, everyone was using them, the old guy down the street, the town sherrif, and the mayor! Most people forget about that part of US history (for those who are American of course) so yeah, prostitutes are not always looked down upon. . .

anyway. . .why is this discussion STILL going? I`m pretty sure Aohige settled it in his first post...

@orion You dont just get educated, and then lose your money . . .that education involves what to do with that money so that it gwos rather than diminishes. . .
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Old 2012-11-28, 23:54   Link #1091
articuzwolf
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if Kou = China and Kouga = Mongolia

Based on their king outfit and temples background in the main visual, I'm guessing that Balbadd was based from some Hindi/Buddhism country like Thailand or Laos
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Old 2012-11-29, 00:27   Link #1092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
True but even by wiki most of these girls were sold into their profession. You can glorify it all you want. Those girls were sold into prostitution, got a better education and relied on rich men patronage to live that lifestyle. When the money evaporated, they were prob SOL. I agree to disagree.
You're waaaaay off the track here.
The original poster said there was no time in history where prostitutes were respected.
So I brought "oiran" as an example of a prostitute that was respected in the society.
This is not a subjective topic, as it does not pertain to you or me, it pertains to the perception of Edo society.

You're challenging "time in history where prostitutes lived a full and happy life", which isn't the topic at hand. That is a subjective topic that can be argued, but for the time being, it's not on the same page. I think you may have come in midway and didn't check what the discussion was about in the first place.

I don't disagree with you that being forced into prostitution is not an ideal lifestyle. But that's not the point.
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Old 2012-11-29, 07:49   Link #1093
orion
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Originally Posted by aohige View Post
You're waaaaay off the track here.
The original poster said there was no time in history where prostitutes were respected.
So I brought "oiran" as an example of a prostitute that was respected in the society.
.
But my point was that the only reason they were "respected" is that their clientele spent the money to bring them the cover of respect. They were educated, had nice clothes only because someone spent the money on them to differentiate the customers from everyone else seeking a prostitute. It's like people buying a BMW vs buying a Ford Escort.
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Old 2012-11-29, 09:21   Link #1094
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And I'm saying, that's completely besides the point.
Oiran was basically Marilyn Monroes and Madonnas of the time.
Whether you feel it's a facade, artificial, or just glamour doesn't have any relevance on the subject.
You're having a hard time differentiating your own respect of the subject with social aspect of the era.

To put it blunt, your opinions don't matter (or mine for that matter). It was factual information given to refute a misconception.
Stating your opinion on the matter is fine, but you can't use that as a basis to refute a historical fact.
Only thing you can do is voice how you feel, not speak for the denizens of Edo.

I'm not debating "your point" nor am I saying you're wrong. Simply, "your point" is irrelevant to the matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by articuzwolf View Post
if Kou = China and Kouga = Mongolia

Based on their king outfit and temples background in the main visual, I'm guessing that Balbadd was based from some Hindi/Buddhism country like Thailand or Laos
Balbaad is basically Bagdad but with mediterranean port town aspect added. The (previous) King Rashid Saruja is based on Caliph Harun al-Rashid.
Most/All of the nations in Magi have a theme civilization.
There are Rome, Greece, Ainu, Egypt, and many more... but I don't think the anime will get that far.
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Old 2012-11-29, 10:09   Link #1095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
Prob not back then.
Sexual likings don't change much over time. And among the East Asian Oriental upper classes especially, such things are...common
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Old 2012-11-29, 22:43   Link #1096
hawkeyesvn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by articuzwolf View Post
if Kou = China and Kouga = Mongolia

Based on their king outfit and temples background in the main visual, I'm guessing that Balbadd was based from some Hindi/Buddhism country like Thailand or Laos
I think It's pretty obvious that Balbadd is based on Baghdad - the centre city of learning and commerce during 8th-13th century. Also, many tales of Arabian Nights set place in Baghdad and we all know where the author got her inspiration from ^^.
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Old 2012-11-30, 01:09   Link #1097
articuzwolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Balbaad is basically Bagdad but with mediterranean port town aspect added. The (previous) King Rashid Saruja is based on Caliph Harun al-Rashid.
Most/All of the nations in Magi have a theme civilization.
There are Rome, Greece, Ainu, Egypt, and many more... but I don't think the anime will get that far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeyesvn View Post
I think It's pretty obvious that Balbadd is based on Baghdad - the centre city of learning and commerce during 8th-13th century. Also, many tales of Arabian Nights set place in Baghdad and we all know where the author got her inspiration from ^^.
well I was hoping that the author will save Baghdad for something related to Aladdin's past since even in the manga we haven't had any...

but yeah, Balbadd is based on Baghdad is quite solid if you looked from that point of view
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Old 2012-12-01, 07:08   Link #1098
Dengar
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While we're on the subject, I doubt I'm the only one who thinks this Fog Bandits or whatever they were called are basically Ali Baba's 40 thieves?
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Old 2012-12-01, 21:35   Link #1099
orion
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While we're on the subject, I doubt I'm the only one who thinks this Fog Bandits or whatever they were called are basically Ali Baba's 40 thieves?
I never read that story but...

Spoiler for just in case:
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Old 2012-12-02, 09:42   Link #1100
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just started watching. I must say, this anime is really good! the characters, the thickening plot, the surprising magic and the mysteries surrounding everything. How long is this anime? I haven't read the manga, but I'd love to see it all animated!
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