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Old 2012-11-05, 07:48   Link #41
Shadow5YA
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I don't mind 3D cel-shading for action, since it would probably be more efficient and consistent in quality than 2D animation. However, CGI by anime studios are nowhere near as detailed or fluid as game studios (see CyberConnect's .hack//GU and onwards, or Square Enix's Advent Children and FF13), so I don't know if I should feel optimistic about this. 3D animation just isn't advanced enough to cover the more stylistic nuances of 2D animation like detailed facial expressions and shading.
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Old 2012-11-14, 19:19   Link #42
Azuma Denton
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Kenji Kamiyama is one of the special guest for Anime Festival Asia Singapore. And i was lucky to attend his session in AFA. Basicly he just briefed the audience what to expect with his new movie 009 Re:Cyborg...





I am not good at summary but here is some key point
- Cyborg 009 is one of work that he admired when he was a child.
- Trivia: Up until now, all animation works of Cyborg 009 occurs every 12 years
- In Ghost in the Shell 3D, he is just remastering the image to 3D, while in 009 Re:Cyborg, all is done in 3D
- He promises that audiences will have a new experience in seeing anime in 3D
- He also said that during the movie premiere in Japan, many has praised the movie as one of the achievement in 3D
- There is a "sexy" scene of Françoise Arnoul (Cyborg 003) in the movie
- Production starts at one year ago, though many of the works is done during the last 4 months before premiere
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Old 2012-11-24, 09:13   Link #43
creb
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Been reading the very few English-language reviews out, and it looks like I'm going to enjoy the heck out of this show, as even the negatives that the reviewers went on about (pseudo jeudo-christian religious overtones as only the Japanese can do), are positives in my book.

The impression I get is of a similar philosophical bent as Ghost in the Shell, but with the addition of religion.

With Xenogears/Xenosaga being one of my favorite video game franchises of all time, I have infinite patience for that type of thing as entertainment.
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Old 2012-11-24, 10:53   Link #44
Kaioshin Sama
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Does this have a seasonal release date set yet or is it still just 2013?
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Old 2012-11-24, 12:49   Link #45
creb
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Does this have a seasonal release date set yet or is it still just 2013?
Not that I can see. The English language version of the site, under "Description" has a line that simply states "February 26, 2013", but I have a sneaking suspicion that is simply the date the movie is set in, and has no real life implications.

On the Japanese language site, it shows theater screenings up through February 16, 2013, so I'm going to guess the disc release won't be for a few months after that.
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Old 2012-12-02, 20:53   Link #46
duckroll
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I watched this over the weekend, but I didn't see the thread here until now. I guess I'll share my thoughts on the film which I've posted in some other places. If anyone else has seen the film, I'm definitely interested in reading what you have to say about the themes too. It's a pretty interesting film.


Impressions:

For those who are wondering about how the visuals hold up, being a full CG anime film, I would say it's not shabby at all, but there's definitely much more work to be done. There are definitely numerous scenes where the celshading is extremely impressive and extremely close to hand-drawn art in terms of composition and coloring. The most telling thing though, is the hair. CG anime hair never really works right, and it's not any different here. But there were some pretty nice looking action sequences, and there's definitely creative composition and camera work which takes advantage of it being a CG film.

The 3D effect was pretty good too, with many scenes clearly designed for the effect from the start. You can tell it's designed to be a "3D" movie when there are camera tracking shots during action sequences which takes the audience through the environment to emphasis the stereoscopic effect. It's gimmicky for sure, but it can still be entertaining. But my favorite 3D shots are the more subtle ones which play with depth to compose an interesting looking scene - the best example are the shots where a character is looking through a glass window or something similar, and the camera is just behind the window, from the character's point of view. The level of depth differentiates the scene the character is looking at outside and the glass panel itself clear, with the glass panel being "closer" to the audience, and you can see the characters' reflection on the glass as they react to what they're seeing, as if it is your own reflection. Pretty cool imo.

Oh and CG vehicles still look dodgy, even in 3D. Sure, they pop up more realistically, but that just makes the CG anime designs for planes and cars just stick out even more... literally! Didn't really bother me that much, but it definitely wasn't anything to be proud of. Someone really needs to innovate in this department for anime CG.

On the other hand, while the visuals might not be super impressive, the music sure fucking is. Kenji Kawai brought his AAA game to the soundtrack here. Really stunning main theme running throughout the film, great location themes, really dynamic sound range, fantastic audio experience. The music really added A LOT to the movie imo, especially since as I will get to in a bit, this is not really a blockbuster action movie and more of an Oshii-lite philosophy movie pretending to be an action movie. Lol.

Yeah... about the story. It was one weird ass movie. This was the part I really didn't expect at all going on, and it was kinda a nice surprise because that made the film more original than it would be otherwise. It's really set up in a weird way, because the first half of the film is a really well directed modern action thriller setup for rebooting Cyborg 009. I'm really impressed by how capable Kamiyama is at introducing and fleshing out a full team of 10 characters in the limited runtime. Even characters without much importance to the main narrative felt like they had their own unique place in the team. Psycho-Pass could stand to learn a thing or two here! The setting and the conspiracy mystery felt a lot like some of the stuff in GitS:SAC too, but approached with presentation which reminded me a little of Pluto. It was really pretty exciting stuff.

Then it just gets... weird. Instead of the mystery and the conspiracy ever leading to something satisfying and climatic, the movie goes off the deep end into philosophy trying to tie together modern politics, sub-conscious religious calling, the history of mankind, the ultimate fate of the world, and mankind's relationship with the will of god. What is god? What is religion? What secrets lie buried in the human mind? Are we masters of our own destiny? The show never answers any of these questions either, because the purpose is in the asking of questions without an answer.

It feels like Kamiyama was torn between desperately trying to channel Oshii and delivering a movie in a respected franchise which could be sold to fans without coming off as strange. This bi-polar nature meant that they had plenty of footage to put into trailers without turning people away, but also that the movie itself is ultimately unsatisfying because it never really does either thing really well. But still, I enjoyed the movie enough to say it was not a bad film, just a very unusual one. It certainly had more to say than most anime movies, and I give it credit for that, but I'm also not in any particular hurry to watch it again anytime soon.


---


After I wrote those impressions, I took a day to reflect on some of the themes in the story and did another write-up on it. I'll place it under a spoiler tag since I discuss a lot of actual plot elements and the ending of the film:

Spoiler:
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Old 2012-12-03, 18:17   Link #47
Helius
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Thanks for the amazingly detailed review, duckroll.

I'm glad to hear that the CG animation isn't as crappy as has been feared by many. Looks like they're on the right track to making cel-shading a mainstream thing, lots of possibilities there!

It's nice to see that they've elected to re-invent Cyborg 009 to deal more with the issues in the current socio-political climate. I'd be interested to see what sort of outlandish philoso-psycho babble they've concocted this time.

From your description, it seems to me that Kamiyama was juggling between the commerciality of the Cyborg 009 franchise and the preservation thereof as an art form. In a way I can see where he's coming from. But his concerns are unnecessary imo, when you put into perspective the fact that the manga was created first and foremost to appeal to shounens and shoujos alike. For it to have some sort of deeper meanings or undertones in the stories the author presented were purely incidental hence should not be seen as the main focus of the manga.

The themes and ideas in the manga, same as those in found in the works of Osamu Tezuka, are so highly regarded nowadays because they were original and fresh then. So I don't think it should be treated with a sort of sacred reverence per se. To make a wholly personal and esoteric film based on that mentally purely out of ones own nostalgic experience would be a mistake imo. A commercial film does not mean it has to be generic. While they do seem to go hand in hand in most cases, it therefore takes a true genius to make a film that can be relevant and entertaining to the masses and still convey the same sense of awe and wonder as when one first read the manga.
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Old 2012-12-03, 20:49   Link #48
Haohmaru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Helius View Post
I'm glad to hear that the CG animation isn't as crappy as has been feared by many. Looks like they're on the right track to making cel-shading a mainstream thing, lots of possibilities there!
How is this actually a good thing though? I thought the Japanese were very proud and hard working people. And that they loved animation more than anything else. Why would you trade your beautiful handdrawn animation for CG fest? Come on Japan. This is what sets you apart from the rest of the world. Your amazing creative minds and awesome animation. Why would you replace that with something as generic as CG.

I don't think there's anything wrong with CG movies, but to say that I would like it be mainstream in anime is going really far.
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Old 2012-12-03, 21:17   Link #49
Helius
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Originally Posted by Haohmaru View Post
How is this actually a good thing though? I thought the Japanese were very proud and hard working people. And that they loved animation more than anything else. Why would you trade your beautiful handdrawn animation for CG fest? Come on Japan. This is what sets you apart from the rest of the world. Your amazing creative minds and awesome animation. Why would you replace that with something as generic as CG.

I don't think there's anything wrong with CG movies, but to say that I would like it be mainstream in anime is going really far.
And yet they saw it fit to outsource animation work to countries like South Korea, Malaysia and the Philipines, mainly as a cost and time-saving measure. CGI is employed extensively in conjunction with 2D on backgrounds, vehicles, mechs and whatnot. The "traditional anime" isn't an exculsively Japanese affair for a long while now.

The reality is that traditional hand-drawn animation is getting more expensive for it to be cost-effective. It's sort of inevitable other venues would have to be explored and CGI is an obvious choice. The Berserk movies are doing it, and now Re:Cyborg 009. It's fast becoming a trend, whether we like it or not.

Of course 2D anime won't die out for a far foreseeable future, but I reckon it'll soon become a thing of novelty rather than as ubiquitous for the time being.
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Old 2012-12-03, 23:39   Link #50
duckroll
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I don't think CG animation is going to be a "mainstream" thing in the anime industry anytime soon honestly. To make good CG, it is still expensive, and there isn't a ton of top-tier talent domestically just yet. It is also incorrect to say that "traditional hand-drawn animation is getting more expensive for it to be cost-effective", because that isn't the case. Instead, the reason for CG being a new direction for anime is because there is only now starting to be better and more talent in the industry who are interested in this particular field.

Digital art is a relatively new skill set, and previously one which only the videogame industry in Japan was willing to really invest into developing and improving. So most of the talented CG animators who graduate and look for a job would be working on games instead of anime. What we're seeing these days is simply an expansion of the demand for that skill set, with more CG studios or anime studios investing into that talent base to produce stuff for the anime industry.

The studio which worked on Re:Cyborg is Sanzigen. They made a name for themselves in recent years by working on the CG for Panty and Stocking, as well as Black Rock Shooter TV. This is their highest profile project yet. In the past, a studio like this wouldn't even exist. So it would be incorrect to look at it from a perspective of CG replacing traditional animation directly. Instead there are simply more Japanese CG animators and artists who are able to get a domestic job working on anime these days, and that should be seen as a good thing.

More diversity is good for the industry. CG is just a different form of animation than 2D animation. It still requires skill, talent, and passion. It would be unfair to think of Japanese CG animators as inferior or less hard-working, or less passionate. They simply apply a different skill set to create a different type of art.
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Old 2012-12-04, 23:35   Link #51
orion
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and... the more CG we see the closer we get to getting more Advent Children animation quality in the future.
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Old 2013-03-16, 11:27   Link #52
Azuma Denton
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Just finished watching this in a local anime screening at Jakarta.

Spoiler for story:


Animation wise, i give it a thumb up. Before watching this movie, i watched GiTS SAC: SSS 3D. And for the comparison, this is really well done. The animation is smooth. But too bad, i am not the one who enjoy 3D movie.
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Old 2013-03-19, 21:27   Link #53
DangerMouse
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Originally Posted by creb View Post
Been reading the very few English-language reviews out, and it looks like I'm going to enjoy the heck out of this show, as even the negatives that the reviewers went on about (pseudo jeudo-christian religious overtones as only the Japanese can do), are positives in my book.

The impression I get is of a similar philosophical bent as Ghost in the Shell, but with the addition of religion.

With Xenogears/Xenosaga being one of my favorite video game franchises of all time, I have infinite patience for that type of thing as entertainment.
Can't wait to see this movie!

Also, duckroll's review was great, I think I'm going to love the hell out of this movie (and it's visuals), also hell yeah, so glad that Kenji Kawai's work sounds like it totally delivered, I love his soundtracks so if this is another "A-game" one from him I can't f-ing wait.
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Old 2013-06-09, 23:51   Link #54
creb
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So, yea. That was pretty great, 'cept the very end. I'm going to pretend the movie ended 10 minutes prior to the actual ending, as I found the actual ending totally unnecessary and ham-fisted. Much better pretending it never happened.

Animation was generally superb, as long as you're not some purist with a hatred for CGI. I suspect within 10 or so years, it'll become very difficult to tell the difference, though we're not there yet. There were a few scenes in this movie that came close though (and others that didn't).

Considering how cheesy the original material is/was, Kenji did a pretty good job without making it completely unrecognizable (similar to what he did with GITS really, for anyone who's actually read the original manga). The most out of place concession to the franchise that jarred a bit were the few short minutes he put them back into their orange uniform with ridiculous scarves. And, yes, it was essentially a sequel to existing material, or an epilogue, so to speak. Not an alternate re-telling.

Spoiler for Image From Movie - So...possibly a spoiler.:


Jet was a BAMF.
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Old 2013-06-10, 11:10   Link #55
zztop
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Just saw the movie.

Still confused. Who was the bad guy supposed to be again? Was it God, an angel or what?
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Old 2013-06-12, 02:16   Link #56
articuzwolf
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not bad, but anticlimax and weird development without clear goal are describing this particular movie perfectly

btw should the title changed into 009 Re:Cyborg instead?

because it wasn't really a remake but more like a continuation from the TV series
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Old 2013-06-12, 16:23   Link #57
Kanon
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I enjoyed the movie for the amazing action (the portrayal of 009's acceleration was superb) and the great music. The plot was plain weird and pretty bad. I would have preferred a more conventional sci-fi story. I'm not familiar with the original work so I have no idea whether this was faithful to its spirit.
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