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Old 2012-12-03, 21:56   Link #461
RegalStar
Mishaguji-sama
 
 
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The spider silk story, huh?
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Old 2012-12-03, 22:12   Link #462
SQA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainbowMagnet View Post
I was wondering that as well. Sasayan has been nicer to Ooshima in this episode alone, than Haru has ever been. Shoujo logics..
To save a lot of arguments, girls will only rarely ask a guy out. Guys still have to make advances. That's not really "shoujo logic", that's just reality.
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Old 2012-12-03, 22:17   Link #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Natsume was so lovely in this episode. You could tell this was the first time she organized a party, or even attended one. It was confirmed she has completely fallen for Mi-chan, it was fun to see her get flustered around him.
Is it wrong that I approve of this pairing?

More so than the MC pairing...
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Old 2012-12-03, 22:54   Link #464
Kakkou
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As funny or amusing as I find Mitty and Haru's interactions, I can't really support them as a couple because when you take the comedy aspect away, it really feels like a potentially unhealthy relationship. Just look at Haru's yandere moment with Yamaken. That was certainly not for laughs. Looking forward to next week since it looks to be a Yamaken episode. He's becoming more and more likeable as of late.

Anyway, the one I'll be rooting for the most in the show is Sasayan. He's been my favourite character since he appeared so it's a shame such a nice guy is going unnoticed.
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Old 2012-12-03, 22:59   Link #465
Kirarakim
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As a woman I don't find Haru's behavior attractive at all. Yeah Yamaken was being a jerk but Haru reaction was uncalled for.

Personally I am thrilled Mitty told him off and went to the cram school. After she said she loved him, he still doesn't have faith in her and is trying to control her.

At this point Haru has to work out his issues before I want to see them together.


Natsume & Sasayan continue to be my lovelies, actually I enjoy the entire cast except for Haru at the moment.

And I also am enjoying Yamaken, obviously he is not going to get the girl but I do love a well told unrequited love story, looking forward to it.
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Old 2012-12-03, 23:00   Link #466
justinstrife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
As a woman I don't find Haru's behavior attractive at all. Yeah Yamaken was being a jerk but Haru reaction was uncalled for.

Personally I am thrilled Mitty told him off and went to the cram school. After she said she loved him, he still doesn't have faith in her and is trying to control her.

At this point Haru has to work out his issues before I want to see them together.


Natsume & Sasayan continue to be my lovelies, actually I enjoy the entire cast except for Haru at the moment.
I agree with this completely.
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Old 2012-12-03, 23:14   Link #467
ReaperxKingx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
As a woman I don't find Haru's behavior attractive at all. Yeah Yamaken was being a jerk but Haru reaction was uncalled for.

Personally I am thrilled Mitty told him off and went to the cram school. After she said she loved him, he still doesn't have faith in her and is trying to control her.

At this point Haru has to work out his issues before I want to see them together.


Natsume & Sasayan continue to be my lovelies, actually I enjoy the entire cast except for Haru at the moment.

And I also am enjoying Yamaken, obviously he is not going to get the girl but I do love a well told unrequited love story, looking forward to it.
There is a very good reason why Haru is like this, especially we haven't gotten the back story yet. Also, the implied rough relationship Haru has with his father from some of the foreshadowing could be a reason. Haru's brother aside, at least Haru has some reaction to him but there is much left to discover in Haru's past before we can make judgement.
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Old 2012-12-03, 23:18   Link #468
Kirarakim
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I am sure there is a reason Haru acts the way he does but that doesn't mean I need to think this is a healthy relationship that I want to support, so yes I can judge the relationship. It isn't just about Haru but about Mitty too.
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Old 2012-12-03, 23:51   Link #469
Hakumen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinstrife View Post
Is it wrong that I approve of this pairing?

More so than the MC pairing...
If its wrong, then I don't want to be right. I find those two more intriguing and personally want to see where their one-sided love will lead to.
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Old 2012-12-03, 23:52   Link #470
sikvod00
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I agree with Kirarakim. I always think you're justified in making a judgement call (a limited one) about someone who physically harms others. Yes, Haru isn't a bad person and possesses redeemable traits, but the violent behavior outweighs that. He continues to acts like a feral animal that you have to be cautious around . If you make the wrong move, he'll bite regardless of who you are. That's seriously unhealthy behavior. I'm not sure if he was going to push Yamaken off the stairs or do that face-mashing thing that they said he did in middle school. Either way, my reaction wasn't one of sympathy for Haru's troubled past, but one of "Stop this idiot before he hurts someone else!".

Whatever his reasons are for frequently resorting to violence, I believe Haru is a loose cannon and a potential danger to those around him, even his friends. I hope they actually try to address this through Mitty too. He is actually my least favorite character in the show right now because of his "overwhelming" behavior.

So to sum it up: I sympathize with Haru because of his troubled past, but I sympathize more with the people he mercilessly beats just because they said the wrong thing.

Last edited by sikvod00; 2012-12-04 at 00:02.
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Old 2012-12-04, 00:19   Link #471
ReaperxKingx
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Its true that the relationship is starting to become unhealthy, but I rather judge when I know the motivations or back story behind actions. Haru loves Mitty, he seems to have attachment issues awfully foreshadowing he lived a lonely life. The people who were closest to Haru are Mitsuyoshi Misawa, Kyoko, and (foreshadowed by the rough relationship with his brother and father) his mother. The anime is very interesting and I read the manga before the anime came out, so we will differ in view because of that.
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Old 2012-12-04, 00:30   Link #472
HandofFate
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yea, Haru is kind of a psycho. And more times than once, his violent actions ended up physically hurting Shizuku by accident as well. And seems he's been like this since primary/grade school. What a habit of violence.

Even if he has a backstory to it, doesn't make it any excuse. Its still a terrible trait for the relationship.

New possible pairings surfacing.

Natsume x Mi-chan.

Sasayan x Oshima

Come on Sasayan, be more proactive.
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Old 2012-12-04, 02:44   Link #473
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Originally Posted by RegalStar View Post
...was creatively adapted for Ep11 of Aoi Bungaku. Well worth checking out for those who haven't already done so.
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Old 2012-12-04, 02:56   Link #474
justinstrife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakumen View Post
If its wrong, then I don't want to be right. I find those two more intriguing and personally want to see where their one-sided love will lead to.
Ahhh my common ally in the probable lost cause of a ship that may never sail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HandofFate View Post
yea, Haru is kind of a psycho. And more times than once, his violent actions ended up physically hurting Shizuku by accident as well. And seems he's been like this since primary/grade school. What a habit of violence.

Even if he has a backstory to it, doesn't make it any excuse. Its still a terrible trait for the relationship.

New possible pairings surfacing.

Natsume x Mi-chan.

Sasayan x Oshima

Come on Sasayan, be more proactive.
This... x ~

I don't care what Haru's 'excuses or backstory' is for his arrant behavior, his violent tendencies have hurt Shizuku and others. And at some point, you have to draw the line. If she can't break him of these quirks, I'm all for him ending up forever alone.
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Old 2012-12-04, 05:09   Link #475
novalysis
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I wonder how different the story might have been, if this was a relationship between Yamanken and Shizuki. Mind you, Yamanken is closer to the cold, cerebral and occasionally nasty Shoujo Male Protagonist.

Actually, that gave me an interesting idea: someone should try giving a Harem Male Protagonist Male Shoujo traits.
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Old 2012-12-04, 05:23   Link #476
kuromitsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
I am sure there is a reason Haru acts the way he does but that doesn't mean I need to think this is a healthy relationship that I want to support, so yes I can judge the relationship. It isn't just about Haru but about Mitty too.
I agree. I've been watching this show on-off, but to be honest Haru is a total turn-off, and him being part of the main romance and a character I'm expected to support and root for significantly decreases the entertainment factor.

I'm not one to keep drumming about realism in escapist fantasies. People like Shinjou Mayu make a living writing deeply unhealthy relationships presented as romantic, and hey, if people like that, I'm not going to tell them to stop enjoying it because it's so bad IRL and so on and so forth. But Kaibutsu-kun is a different subgenre, and tries to be realistic enough that I can't just dismiss these aspects as "it comes with the genre, don't think about it too deeply." Not in the least because I've had the misfortune of watching the birth and crash of a relationship between similar people IRL, and let's just say it wasn't pretty.

ETA: Just to clarify, because I realized I didn't write what I originally wanted to write: I'm not saying unhealthy relationships can't be romantic, and I think the notion of "romantic" is fundamentally pretty subjective. It's just that Haru and by proxy the main relationship in this show has some aspects that I personally find unappealing to say the least, I don't appreciate the show's way of dealing them, and this doesn't make me want to support the relationship I'm expected to support.

(Note: I don't know if the manga ever addresses this issue, though my jaded reader side says probably not...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
I wonder how different the story might have been, if this was a relationship between Yamanken and Shizuki. Mind you, Yamanken is closer to the cold, cerebral and occasionally nasty Shoujo Male Protagonist.
Haru, though, is the other end of the Shoujo Male Protagonist stereotype spectrum... (Btw this is why I love the setting of Otomen. xD)

Last edited by kuromitsu; 2012-12-04 at 06:53.
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Old 2012-12-04, 07:09   Link #477
Sol Falling
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Funny that people think Haru's violent outbursts are supposed to be romantic. If I remember correctly, earlier people were complaining about Haru being one-dimensional. Haru's trauma and the broken aspects of his personality are the principal source of depth and conflict to his character, at least early on anyway. I don't know how shallowly the anime must be portraying it's conflicts/characters if people cannot catch onto this, and are just flippantly switching to rooting for other pairings.
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Old 2012-12-04, 11:26   Link #478
Kirarakim
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I don't see anyone saying the story is promoting Haru's behavior, if it was then Mitty would have not shown there was a problem with what Haru did but she did.

But from another perspective I still can't get into the relationship. Making Haru complicated like this might add dimensions to his character but it doesn't add anything to the relationship aspect for me, except make it painful to watch.
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Old 2012-12-04, 12:03   Link #479
Dr. Casey
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I think there's a nice dichotomy between the way episode 9 shows Haru at his best, and the way that episode 10 shows Haru at his worst and his ugliest. Particularly, I'm glad that the show is willing to make Haru genuinely controversial at times, unlike some anime where a rough-around-the-edges character is given lip service as being a 'bad boy,' but never does anything worse than make the occasional snide remark, unfailingly doing the right thing in every situation and never acting in a way that might lose the support of the audience. One of the main points of the story is seeing Shizuku save him from a very dark place, and I think it's great that Haru's anger and bitterness and paranoia manifests itself in ways that are legitimately loathsome at times and make the viewer uncomfortable or develop mixed feelings towards him, rather than the author playing it completely safe and never crossing the line beyond 'lovable rogue' territory. Haru has the later stages of the story after he's started to heal emotionally to be a rational, considerate, well-adjusted person. In the meantime, I want the darkness inside him to be palpable and to be put through the wringer, because Haru's personal journey will be all the more fulfilling if we're made to feel the bumps ourselves as he goes down that road, and we'll be all the happier for Haru's leaving behind the dark place he's been stuck for most of his life if we're forced to spend some time in there as well.

And even though so much focus is put on how scary Haru is whenever he gets angry (which of course he is), Shizuku just might be his equal. For as detached and dispassioned as Shizuku's normal day-to-day persona is, she has really intense emotions whenever she gets worked up... I'd probably try to pick at her if I was Haru just because she's sexy when she gets mad.
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Old 2012-12-04, 13:10   Link #480
Kanon
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Originally Posted by Dr. Casey View Post
I think there's a nice dichotomy between the way episode 9 shows Haru at his best, and the way that episode 10 shows Haru at his worst and his ugliest. Particularly, I'm glad that the show is willing to make Haru genuinely controversial at times, unlike some anime where a rough-around-the-edges character is given lip service as being a 'bad boy,' but never does anything worse than make the occasional snide remark, unfailingly doing the right thing in every situation and never acting in a way that might lose the support of the audience. One of the main points of the story is seeing Shizuku save him from a very dark place, and I think it's great that Haru's anger and bitterness and paranoia manifests itself in ways that are legitimately loathsome at times and make the viewer uncomfortable or develop mixed feelings towards him, rather than the author playing it completely safe and never crossing the line beyond 'lovable rogue' territory. Haru has the later stages of the story after he's started to heal emotionally to be a rational, considerate, well-adjusted person. In the meantime, I want the darkness inside him to be palpable and to be put through the wringer, because Haru's personal journey will be all the more fulfilling if we're made to feel the bumps ourselves as he goes down that road, and we'll be all the happier for Haru's leaving behind the dark place he's been stuck for most of his life if we're forced to spend some time in there as well.
Agreed. Haru's portrayal, while that makes him a controversial character - unlikable, even- is positive from a storytelling perspective. It gives him genuine depth and I see a lot of room for development. I don't think we are expected to root for him, at least not yet. For now, he is supposed to be a character that makes the audience feel uneasy and conflicted, and make them wonder if a healthy relationship with Shizuku is even possible (it definitely isn't at this stage).

I still can't say I like Haru but this episode finally got me interested in him. I want to know what shaped him into the mentally unbalanced person he is today, and more importantly, I want to see him evolve. This will definitely happen at one point or another, otherwise his relationship with Shizuku will never have a future. Nothing is going to happen if he doesn't change. And when he does start to change, it's going to be very satisfying to witness the progress he makes.

The author is taking a risk in portraying Haru this way. There is a chance he will alienate the audience if he goes too far. On the other hand, the pay-off will be great if he can manage to bring Haru where he wants him to be in a believable way. The timing is also crucial. It can't happen too fast nor too slow. Writing a main character such as Haru is pretty tricky in a shoujo romance.
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