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View Poll Results: Sakurasou no Pet na Kanojo - Episode 9 Rating
Perfect 10 13 22.03%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 14 23.73%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 22 37.29%
7 out of 10 : Good 9 15.25%
6 out of 10 : Average 1 1.69%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 59. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-12-05, 18:49   Link #141
Zavie
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Taken all that into consideration, I don't think going back to England should be made to be a point against Rita. Even imo, London would be a better place for fine art than Tokyo, and simply wanting Mashiro going back to London is the same as wanting your children to have the best facility for their education.

On the issue about forcing Mashiro to paint, I think there's a lot of misunderstanding here, going back to England doesn't mean Mashiro will be force into drawing 24/7. Any good education institution in the world always let theirs student express individualism in their study while provide the best study enviroment to encourage the student to further their skills (meaning if she wants to study manga for art, I think they will let her do that, heck they might even let her go to Japan again for field trip study and arrange her to meet with some of the mangakas for inspiration). And if Mashiro truly loves painting, I believes going to a good studio or art institution in London wouldn't make her paint or work like slave, on the contrary, I think Mashiro would still very much enjoy her life there.

But imo, Mashiro lacks common sense, therefore she won't be able to see things to that extent, and just to make it worse, she won't listen either. And she won't let people know how she feels about fine art, about manga, her life and her future as a whole. She lacks the capabilitiy to express them imo. So Rita can only act on what she thinks is best for Mashiro atm.

And given if there's a person like Shiina in real life (talent but totally dependent), would you entirely suport her all the way for whahtever she decides without her even telling you her thought about the subject matter. If she's someone that can express her passion and is reliable like Aoyama, possiblly I will give in, but Mashiro? Unlikely
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Old 2012-12-05, 18:52   Link #142
Triple_R
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Care to explain why Shiina needs to continue painting in order for her already existing paintings to gain historical significance?
The reason why I raised the historical significance argument is because Rita raised it. My point is simply that Rita raised an argument that points to personal benefits for Shiina. We can debate the validity of the argument, but that's honestly beside the point - The key point is that Rita raised an argument that points to personal benefits for Shiina. So it's not like Rita is completely ignoring Shiina's own well-being in all of this.


Quote:
I can agree that many will think it's a "waste of talent",
If Shiina never makes another painting in her life, and settles for being a decent managaka, don't you think that simply is a waste of talent?

I mean, if Michael Jordan stopped playing basketball at the age of 23, and suddenly decided to work as an average person in an average profession somewhere for the rest of his working life, that would obviously constitute a waste of talent.


Quote:
but I don't see how the historical signifance of her paintings will suddenly wane if she doesn't paint until the very end. If the paintings Shiina has already created are as great as they should be, then they should be recognized whether she makes new paintings or not.
Honestly, one could argue that the paintings that Shiina have already made may be tainted (in a sense) due to how she left the painting career at such a young age.

Imagine if Michael Jordan did stop playing basketball (for good) in his mid-20s, and some basketball fans (from far in the future) watched a video tape of one of Jordan's final basketball games.

Viewer A says "Wow, what an awesome basketball player! I could watch this all day!"

Viewer B says "Yeah, I agree, but you know what's sad?"

Viewer C answers "No, what?"

Viewer B answers "He never played beyond his 23rd birthday."

Viewer A replies "You gotta be shittin' me, dude!"

Viewer B states "No, it's true. He stopped playing before the age of 23. I think he worked in a clerical role somewhere the rest of his life."

Viewer C state "What an incredible waste of talent..."

So for the rest of this viewing experience, these viewers aren't just thinking "What great talent!" in this awe-inspired way. No, instead they're thinking "What a horrible shame."

And fans of the fine arts may feel much the same when they read about Shiina's life history if she doesn't pursue her painting talents beyond this episode.




Quote:
I think you're making a false analogy here. You want to use Michael Jordan as an example of someone who fully utilized his talents, but you fail to mention that it was also his choice to quit while he was ahead.
No, that's not why I raised Michael Jordan. Did he fully utilize his talents? Maybe not. But even if he didn't fully utilize his talents, at least he wasn't that far off.

But if Shiina stops being a painter now, and never picks it back up, she's not even 50% utilizing her talents from a career perspective. At worst, I'd say Jordan 85% utilized his talents from a career perspective. So it's a big difference.

In any event, I raised Jordan just so people would get a more concrete idea of what's truly at stake here.

I mean, I feel like a lot of people in this thread aren't even considering the greater good here.


Quote:
After his ... what, second retirement?... he came back to play on the Washington Wizards and was... not all that great. I don't think anyone think anyone considers Michael Jordan's performance with the Wizards as part of his legacy.
His final years with the Bulls is definitely considered part of his legacy, and that came after he returned from minor league baseball.


Quote:

Suppose a girl had the body and talent to be the best in a less intellectually praised occupation, like a model. The woman has a voluptuous body with curves in all the right places and a face that looks attractive without makeup. Many agencies have tried scouting her, but she turns them down in the end because she doesn't want to be recognized that way and wants to go study physics at at a university, even if she was never at the top of her class or anything near that.
If everyone she knew, from her friends to her professors kept telling her she should quit being a university scholar to become a model despite her choice to decline it, couldn't that be seen as offensive, even if it's not exactly wrong?

or let's go even darker: a person has the natural talent to kill. The person is extremely nimble, aware of the human anatomy, and can defeat all his/her opponents with a few precise blows, almost like the person can literally see the end lined into other people's bodies (*ahem*). People around this person urge him to be an assassin, or an official secret like the CIA, and eliminate all the corrupt and evil tyrants and terrorists in the world. Can this person be upset if he does not want to use his natural ability to kill?
These analogies have nothing to do with what we're talking about. What you're raising here are people who have a talent in a field that they have moral objections to. Such moral objections raises new issues that simply aren't there in our general discussion (and certainly not on the specifics of Shiina's situation).

Shiina clearly doesn't have a moral objection to painting.



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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
You have to consider why people covet talents they don't have in the first place. It's not generally because they have a passion to make the world a better place...
Honestly, I think it's possible you're being too cynical here.

And even if you're not, it's almost beside the point.

Whatever the motivations of the talented person, their talent in use will usually reap benefits for the rest of humanity.

Having more star players makes a game more entertaining to watch, and more memorable an experience in general.

Having more great paintings to behold makes for a more beautiful world and an aesthetically richer world.

Having more great music to lisen to makes for a more serene and uplifting world.

I'm sure most of us here have certain J-POP artists that we love, or seiyus that we love.


Quote:
Rather than focus on what's good for Mashiro, perhaps we should really be talking about what's good for Rita. Perhaps she should pull the plank out of her own eye first.
Wow, I think you're being way too harsh on Rita.


Finally, there's at least one major flaw I see from some of the arguments on this thread.

"Trapped in a bird cage"? Really now?

What makes anybody here think that Shiina doesn't like painting?

If Shiina came out and said "I'm sick of painting. I hate it! I don't want to do it anymore!", then those arguing "trapped in a bird cage" would have more of a point.

But she's not saying that at all.

In fact, just how did this episode begin?


I'm inclined to think that Shiina still likes painting, and she just needed a break from it for awhile, which is fine. But that certainly doesn't mean she should stop painting for good.
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Old 2012-12-05, 18:55   Link #143
Dauerlutscher
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I'm inclined to think that Shiina still likes painting, and she just needed a break from it for awhile, which is fine. But that certainly doesn't mean she should stop painting for good.
No one is saying that she should stop painting. If it is her wish to stop, that has to be respected, thats all.
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Old 2012-12-05, 19:00   Link #144
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Originally Posted by Dauerlutscher View Post
That was not the point. Read again and think a little.

Let's assume that she has no wish to do what people demand from her. And if those people who believe she is just tool to insipire others and she has no right to live her own life, than the only option for those people would be to put her in a cage and force her to do what they want, because there is chance that she will not accept their nonses and will escape.

The freedom is at the moment lost when people like you force others to drop their dreams and their lifes and make them do what you want them to do.

That's a lot of things to assume- are you sure you're discussing Sakurasou or some other Anime you think it should be?

Quote:
No one said that it is not admirable. If she herself wants to do this admirable deed, it's ok because it her choise. Just to make somthing clear. I said that you have no right to force that from people. And why the hell do you think you have the right the right for that in the first place. How arogant can you be?

I wonder who is short sighted and norrow thinking in this whole debate.
After all, it's you who is going against fundamental human rights, against something that people have fighted for centuries and died for, and you have no problem with that, because you justify this with inspiring other people.

Simple question.
Is Shiina just a tool or a human being with rights, such as freedom to chose for herself what she does with her life? What do you believe. And talking around the bush is not allowed. Just a straight answer. Option A or option B.
Again, are you sure you're discussing Sakurasou and not some other Anime?

The entire premise of your argument is that someone is forcing Mashiro to go back against her will, fine so where's the gun pointing at her head? wheres the shackles and head bags and black wIndow vehIcles? Where's the blackmail and threats against her friends and generally making her life difficult?

The answer? There isn't any because nobody is forcing her. There is a difference between forcing and persuading. Your entire argument is base on an illusion of an invisible enemy that doesn't exist is this story.
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Old 2012-12-05, 19:29   Link #145
Zavie
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And if those people who believe she is just tool to insipire others and she has no right to live her own life, than the only option for those people would be to put her in a cage and force her to do what they want, because there is chance that she will not accept their nonses and will escape.
Call me extreme, but now I think again, I would not myself allow Mashiro to live freely on her own. Think about it, she even doesn't have the concept of putting on cloth when it's needed, paying when buying something. Why should I trust her to be able to make the right choice about manga when I myself saw how she painted so dilligently, without a care to the world and pictures was only things that she seemed to love?

Oh what else, it's not like she has ever complained about her life either.

Am I that disrecpectful to try my hardest convincing her to go back to the way it was? When all I got was a simple "I want to go Japan and draw manga"?

Well, that's a lot of assumption for the plot, but I just want to express how I feel about this

I you have a child that is only 6, 7 years old, and someday for a mysterious reason doesn't want to go to school, would you accept that without knowing why? Yes, it is given that you have to go yourself investigate about the school if there's any issue, but would it be quicker if your child would just talk about that with you, right?
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Old 2012-12-05, 19:47   Link #146
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Wait, are you suggesting that manga beats museum gallery every single time ?
Did I say that. I said if the goal is reaching a wider audience, where she is now is better.

With regard to which is better, neither. This conversational grows pointless and drives towards procrastination, so I'll leave you all to your own devices with some final thoughts on the whole "masterpiece" part of what's apparently in everyone's equation:

Take a painting. A painting tells a mute store, if one at all, manga expresses more feelings (though characters, plot, etc), but at the cost of excessive repetition and simplification of expression for the purpose of conveying underline emotion—that is the basic definition of both, but strip the definition away and you'll notice the difference is still present, why is that? Is it simply a matter of opinion? No. It's a matter of perspective; when dealing with time, things far away are much bigger then things up close, even if in reality they are of equal size. To take it one step back, let's say I'm a fan of typography (that's an art too, in case you were too busy abusing it every day to realize), if that were the case I'm obviously going to root for Mashiro to be a famous typographer and have her own typeface, "the Mashiro". Does that make painting and manga lesser art forms? Of course not. But by the common logic here (and well just about everywhere else people repeat what they've been brainwashed to think) it would, since it would go beyond inspiring young artists, it would inspire everyone who used it; even if was only a quaint typeface used in titles of books and such, the glyphs can hold as much power as a masterpiece. So, do you know why people don't talk about typefaces, their history, and the people who invented them? The same reason you think of manga as a lowly art now, the reason is because it's part of your every day life, and as such is closer, too small to notice. You think the so-called "grant masters" just became grand over night... most sold their work for food, many appreciated their work, but it was the same appreciation we might give now to a good series. "It is good." Of course now it's larger then life... since it's no more. So then how does one embody that? You don't, it's impossible because you do not live in the same time, and the time has passed long ago. So in cases like Mashiro one can never be what people like Rita want them to be. What they see and interpret with their limited understanding is merely an illusion from lack of an equivalent—no amount of wanting will change that, no amount of needing will make it true. You can not make a masterpiece, time and society make things into a masterpiece. If art is too alien to understand, look at books, look at old movies (the "classics" as it were), people even look at cartoons as "masterpieces."

So to be blunt, Mashiro just can't make a "masterpiece," it's not up to her. And going by the plot (ie. all the hard work she puts in) there exists a possibility she is aware of this.
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Old 2012-12-05, 19:54   Link #147
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Originally Posted by felix View Post
Did I say that. I said if the goal is reaching a wider audience, where she is now is better.
Wow, that's wildly presumptuous.

Please read this.

Key excerpt: He was claimed to be "America's most-collected living artist" before his death[5] with an estimated 1 in every 20 American homes owning a copy of one of his paintings.[6]

That's massive circulation, and it's based on paintings.


This man is also very well-known with widely circulated works.


There's absolutely no reason to think that a great painter can't reach the same number of people that a great mangaka can. In fact, if anything, I'd wonder if the opposite is an issue (that a great mangaka can't reach the same number of people that a great painter can).

I mean, consider the number of people who are familiar with "The Scream" painting or "The Mona Lisa" vs. the number of people familiar with... well, any manga, really.
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Old 2012-12-05, 20:12   Link #148
Zavie
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She's already a world class artist, given the setting, she has gotten the approval of the art world, all that left for her now is to push the boundaries and create even more amazing artworks. And if you watch the episode again, Rita was very careful with her word choice to suggest Mashiro's potential to create a masterpiece that will go down in history. Everything she said was about Mashiro's potential, not about her actual cappability to create one atm yet.

Yes, you might argue that it's just Rita's illusion. But if Mashiro stays in her art world and continues fine art, that possibility still has more chance to come true rather her quit painting altogether (I'm not suggesting that though, just saying hypothetically). And givenRita's character, I would think she know more about Mashiro's cappability than you are, I don't think she would go that without taking everything into consideration.

Let me ask, fine art and manga, which is it do you honestly think Mashiro has more chance to be successful at? And which part do you think she should take right fnow or her future, in your opinion? And please don't answer she should do whatever she likes.
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Old 2012-12-05, 20:31   Link #149
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Why can't some people accept that extreme answer is usually not the correct answer? Nobody should cover their ears against other people's suggestion. Everyone should think for themselves and take responsibility for their own action. No one should remain silent to what they perceive as need of those near them. No one should force their will upon other people. At this point in Mashiro's life, nothing is yet taken off the board, and no option should be ignored. Possibility of Mashiro being both the artist and mangaka should be explored. People like Rita should also reconsider their obstinate position and try to be flexible. Being flexible and giving up is not the same thing. It is a fact that Mashiro needs help in many things. Thus Mashiro and people around her should try to see if there is a way for her to grow both as mangaka and painter.
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Old 2012-12-05, 20:46   Link #150
Zavie
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Originally Posted by wontaek View Post
Why can't some people accept that extreme answer is usually not the correct answer? Nobody should cover their ears against other people's suggestion. Everyone should think for themselves and take responsibility for their own action. No one should remain silent to what they perceive as need of those near them. No one should force their will upon other people. At this point in Mashiro's life, nothing is yet taken off the board, and no option should be ignored. Possibility of Mashiro being both the artist and mangaka should be explored. People like Rita should also reconsider their obstinate position and try to be flexible. Being flexible and giving up is not the same thing. It is a fact that Mashiro needs help in many things. Thus Mashiro and people around her should try to see if there is a way for her to grow both as mangaka and painter.
That is the compromise all the characters need to take. I, too think that is the best solution in this thread for Mashiro, only given her cooperation to listen and actually say something constructive though. However, the arguement now seems to shift to Rita, I just can't handle the fact that some people just antagonized her for trying to do something for Mashiro, even given that her method is not entirely correct. I'm just trying to justify her actions and prove that it is not entairely bad.
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Old 2012-12-05, 20:57   Link #151
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Originally Posted by Zavie View Post
That is the compromise all the characters need to take. I, too think that is the best solution in this thread for Mashiro, only given her cooperation to listen and actually say something constructive though. However, the arguement now seems to shift to Rita, I just can't handle the fact that some people just antagonized her for trying to do something for Mashiro, even given that her method is not entirely correct. I'm just trying to justify her actions and prove that it is not entairely bad.
I am sympathetic to Rita's position. She should not be vilified for suggesting what she think is the best thing for Mashiro. Just as Nanami showed growth in previous episodes, Rita also needs to grow up and consider that there is world of options available for Mashiro. I am hoping that the series will show Rita's growth as well. Rita's intention is good, and she also is young, which means she will make mistakes and misjudgements. She is trying to impose her will upon Mashiro, so her natural growth in the series would be for her to realize the error of her way and learning to become more flexible. No one is perfect. Heck, perfect characters are boring. The best characters are those imperfect ones who grows out of their flaws. If you hate Rita for what has been shown so far, then I would consider you as someone I prefer to avoid in workplace, as my first mistake would be my last with you.
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Old 2012-12-05, 21:41   Link #152
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No, it's not so much of Rita- I've noticed that suddenly we have a mysterious villain or group of villains behind the scenes pushing up their glasses smugly going 'just as planned' while pulling the string to take away Mashiro's freedom for their own purpose!

...In other words, people have been making up imaginary bad guys for this series -_-
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Old 2012-12-05, 21:41   Link #153
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Originally Posted by Zavie View Post
Call me extreme, but now I think again, I would not myself allow Mashiro to live freely on her own. Think about it, she even doesn't have the concept of putting on cloth when it's needed, paying when buying something. Why should I trust her to be able to make the right choice about manga when I myself saw how she painted so dilligently, without a care to the world and pictures was only things that she seemed to love?

Oh what else, it's not like she has ever complained about her life either.

Am I that disrecpectful to try my hardest convincing her to go back to the way it was? When all I got was a simple "I want to go Japan and draw manga"?

Well, that's a lot of assumption for the plot, but I just want to express how I feel about this

I you have a child that is only 6, 7 years old, and someday for a mysterious reason doesn't want to go to school, would you accept that without knowing why? Yes, it is given that you have to go yourself investigate about the school if there's any issue, but would it be quicker if your child would just talk about that with you, right?
Yup, calling you extreme is even an understatement.
Shiina is not a child and by no means retarted. She clearly knows what she wants and she clearly know what she is doing. Nuff said.




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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
That's a lot of things to assume- are you sure you're discussing Sakurasou or some other Anime you think it should be?



Again, are you sure you're discussing Sakurasou and not some other Anime?
Stupid. You are avoiding the point again.
"The freedom is at the moment lost when people like you force others to drop their dreams and their lifes and make them do what you want them to do."

Quote:
The entire premise of your argument is that someone is forcing Mashiro to go back against her will, fine so where's the gun pointing at her head? wheres the shackles and head bags and black wIndow vehIcles? Where's the blackmail and threats against her friends and generally making her life difficult?

The answer? There isn't any because nobody is forcing her. There is a difference between forcing and persuading. Your entire argument is base on an illusion of an invisible enemy that doesn't exist is this story.
Everything I said so far goes down to only one thing.
Your nonsensical statemet that she should not be allowed to live her life how she wants, because she has to do what other people expect from her. Which is absolutely in conflickt with fundamental humans rights and that is neither acceptable nor tolerable.


So I ask you again because you avoided to answer the question.
Is Shiina just a tool or a human being with rights, such as freedom to chose for herself what she does with her life? What do you believe? And talking around the bush is not allowed. Just a straight answer. Option A or option B. Is she just a tool or a human being with rights?
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Old 2012-12-05, 21:56   Link #154
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Originally Posted by Dauerlutscher View Post
Yup, calling you extreme is even an understatement.
Shiina is not a child and by no means retarted. She clearly knows what she wants and she clearly know what she is doing. Nuff said.
If you really think Shiina is that cappable then I have nothing else to say. Should she had arrived at anywhere else but Sakurasou and didn't meet the right people she met in this anime, I would imagine some very bad scenarios could have happened to her.

All I have to say is that for Shiina to be what she is right now, she is extremely lucky.

You understand the title of this anime right? It's Sakurasou's pet girl, and I think there's a valid reason for that.
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Old 2012-12-05, 22:00   Link #155
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Stupid. You are avoiding the point again.
"The freedom is at the moment lost when people like you force others to drop their dreams and their lifes and make them do what you want them to do."
Whose making who do anything?

Seriously if you're not going to discuss things that are happening IN the anime then what are you doing here?


Quote:
Everything I said so far goes down to only one thing.
Your nonsensical statemet that she should not be allowed to live her life how she wants, because she has to do what other people expect from her. Which is absolutely in conflickt with fundamental humans rights and that is neither acceptable nor tolerable.
The hell It Is, that's what you keep forcing into my mouth because all I was talking about was the merIts of Mashiro going back to painting over drawIng manga- something that you seem to take it as slavery of some kind.

Quote:
So I ask you again because you avoided to answer the question.
Is Shiina just a tool or a human being with rights, such as freedom to chose for herself what she does with her life? What do you believe? And talking around the bush is not allowed. Just a straight answer. Option A or option B. Is she just a tool or a human being with rights?
I Ignored your questIon before because you'll just twIst it to somethIng that Its not about; yes she is a human, yes she should make her decision. THAT DOSENT MEAN YOU CAN'T TRY TO CHANGE HER MIND.

Last edited by Chaos2Frozen; 2012-12-05 at 23:26.
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Old 2012-12-05, 22:01   Link #156
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Seems like my guess about Ryuunosuke's gender was dead wrong. If this were a more harem-oriented show, I would have been right

Perhaps Rita herself aspires to be a great artist but her talent is not even close to that of Mashiro and she's crushed that Mashiro, who has the talent that she wishes for, chose another path? I don't think Rita is merely concerned about 'what's good for' Mashiro, that's my guess.
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Old 2012-12-05, 22:03   Link #157
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I don't think it's that simple. I've been wondering: Why did Mashiro suddenly want to be a mangaka?
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Old 2012-12-05, 23:04   Link #158
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I don't think it's that simple. I've been wondering: Why did Mashiro suddenly want to be a mangaka?
Probably because she saw a manga that was to her a piece of art. A manga that told a story with great artwork. We know there is manga like that and it had something her paintings did not.. A painting emotes emotions but it does not portray how the artist feels other than that. Shiina probably wants to express herself in a way she has never done.
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Old 2012-12-06, 00:01   Link #159
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Originally Posted by wontaek View Post
I am sympathetic to Rita's position. She should not be vilified for suggesting what she think is the best thing for Mashiro. Just as Nanami showed growth in previous episodes, Rita also needs to grow up and consider that there is world of options available for Mashiro. I am hoping that the series will show Rita's growth as well. Rita's intention is good, and she also is young, which means she will make mistakes and misjudgements. She is trying to impose her will upon Mashiro, so her natural growth in the series would be for her to realize the error of her way and learning to become more flexible. No one is perfect. Heck, perfect characters are boring. The best characters are those imperfect ones who grows out of their flaws. If you hate Rita for what has been shown so far, then I would consider you as someone I prefer to avoid in workplace, as my first mistake would be my last with you.
With that body, all is forgiven.
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Old 2012-12-06, 00:11   Link #160
Reckoner
Bittersweet Distractor
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
You have to consider why people covet talents they don't have in the first place. It's not generally because they have a passion to make the world a better place and their lack of talent really prevents them from doing so. It's because they think, if only I had that natural talent I could be: happier, more successful, more appreciated, more loved (etc.)... and I wouldn't have to work so hard at life because I'd be "naturally good". It's like winning the lottery; they assume that having that talent will fill some hole in their life and raise them out of their misery. So they want to see people with talent be successful and meet their expectations because they can live vicariously through them. And even as they may be a fan of that person, they often don't really care about them as a person -- they care about them as a sort of aspirational idol. And this is why, when that idol fails to live up to their expectations (because all humans fall, and the higher the pedestal the harder the fall), they get really upset/indignant -- because it reminds them of their own failings, and brings out the dark side of coveting: bitterness and jealousy.
Yeah it is because they don't have those talents that they wish they had. These people DO believe these talents would give them a more fulfilling and wholesome life. Being able to make a positive impact on the world, that is something a lot of people on this planet strive for.

Yet here is a person who has the ability to do exactly just that, but doesn't use the ability. They are actively throwing away something truly special. I think it is understandable if someone can interpret this as not appreciating what they have. The key here being of course that Shiina hasn't actively proclaimed any dislike for art, she just for some reason likes manga. It is like being a waster of food when there are clearly starving people around in your country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
This may all be a "very natural reaction", but it's fundamentally unhealthy because it prevents people from doing the things they can do in the place where they are to make their world and The World a better place.

Rather than focus on what's good for Mashiro, perhaps we should really be talking about what's good for Rita. Perhaps she should pull the plank out of her own eye first.
Yeah it's not a necessarily pretty emotion to have, I would never argue as such. But it is indeed natural and I also feel understandable. Should Mashiro do art? Like I said, it's her decision, but she must also consider the fact that she's basically being wasteful of her own talents and why this might be offensive to people in general.

Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
Your entire argument here is based on the word "may", it "may" be good. Wouldn't the person in question know better which "may" is smaller when they make their choices in life? Compared to someone with no experience, I like to think they would. And if you've got the experience, stop telling others and get off your ass and do it yourself. Why should strangers have more right to make the choice; numbers count for nothing.
My entire argument is that Shiina is free to choose what she wants and we cannot force her, but that disregarding the given opportunity given to her is akin to slapping all the people who wish they had what she had in the face. If she truly hated art this would be a different story, but there is zero indication of it. She likes to draw, that is clear, but for whatever reason seems to like doing manga more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
They would, yet nobody comes close to her but the ones at Sakurasou. "They would die for" eh, but they can't spare a moment to visit her, to tak to her, to at least sent her fan mail. The lazy deserve no pity! Talent needs wings to fly too, it's not Shiina's fault her english art fans are not those wings; if anything they had plenty of time, yet here she is in Japan...
A lot of people in this world are just simply doing what they can to make ends meet. They don't have those opportunities. It's the fact that she has such an opportunity and yet chooses to waste it that would make other people understably upset.
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