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Old 2012-12-06, 22:04   Link #2421
RX-78GP04G Gerbera
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aldw View Post
The Korean War performance between HVSS Shermans and T-34/85's is very telling on how good the Sherman really is despite all the misinformed treatments about its capabilities.
IIRC, part of the reason for that was due to the US Forces being more experienced with their Shermans. The North Koreans only got training in the T-34/85, but no actual combat experience using them, so they weren't able to use them to their full potential.
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Old 2012-12-06, 22:05   Link #2422
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Reading up a little on the Panzer 38(t). The British tester said that it's gun was very inaccurate in its ability to be sighted in properly on the move. One wonders if Momo could hit anything if she was put in another tank with a better system.
The same can be said of pretty much all WWII era and earlier tanks. Missing a shot from two feet away cannot be blamed on the tank. Momo is inaccurate because Momo is inaccurate.
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Old 2012-12-06, 22:07   Link #2423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
The same can be said of pretty much all WWII era and earlier tanks. Missing a shot from two feet away cannot be blamed on the tank. Momo is inaccurate because Momo is inaccurate.
Not to mention that, with that shot in particular, they weren't even moving in the first place, lol.
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Old 2012-12-06, 22:10   Link #2424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kikaifan View Post
Soviet optics, while not as good as German, were serviceable. Their real problem was lack of gunner position in the 34/76's 2-man turret and generally rushed crew training.
Not just optics, the T-34 is well known for poor visuals & cramped crew space. Even the best trained crew had difficulties operating within the confinements of the T-34.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kikaifan View Post
While the Sherman was in most respects superior to the early model T-34s (T-34 still had better power-to-weight and wider tracks and so could handle worse ground), it also began production 2 years later, nothing by modern development standards but a lifetime during the rapid development cycles of WWII. Besides it's production numbers the T-34 is most notable simple for how ahead of its time it was.
Superior system in terms of reliability, materials and soft equipment such as availability of radios, increased space & overall better visuals/optics made Sherman a better machine. Many T-34 battalions lacked cohesion and effective communication, thus contributing significantly to a great number of them being lost on the field.

As for production numbers, the Sherman series were produced in comparable numbers to the T-34, and the United States only started producing Shermans in 1942, or two years after Operation Barbarossa, where T-34s were already in service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
You cannot compare the M4 to T-34 in terms of armour. And weapon-wise, T-34/85 was produced in much greater numbers than Firefly. The common Sherman cannot compare to the T-34/85 which was also fielded in increasing numbers towards the end of the war
But I wasn't comparing armor. I was comparing accessories, reliability and superiority of materials. The T-34 was not as reliable as people thought it was. Many were rushed productions, and lacked the quality control of the M4 series.

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Last edited by Tak; 2012-12-06 at 22:30.
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Old 2012-12-06, 22:17   Link #2425
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Yeah, a lot of it was just rushing out wave after wave to overwhelm the Germans with numbers and whittle down their forces and/or make them wear out from smashing against numerically superior defenses.
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Old 2012-12-06, 22:19   Link #2426
Chiaki_chan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Random Wanderer View Post
The same can be said of pretty much all WWII era and earlier tanks. Missing a shot from two feet away cannot be blamed on the tank. Momo is inaccurate because Momo is inaccurate.
It is not a question of Tank ... Momo-chan is missing all those shot, and what is the humor she might just be the best tank in existing ... she always miss the shot
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Old 2012-12-06, 22:20   Link #2427
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Originally Posted by sandhy88 View Post
Spoilers
Spoiler for eps 9
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
Spoiler for How festive.:
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Old 2012-12-06, 22:22   Link #2428
Chiaki_chan
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But if you think about it I think it is a problem Momo-chan just need to change monicle or start wearing Goggles
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Old 2012-12-06, 22:27   Link #2429
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Comparing armor on a T-34 verses a M4 Sherman is fairly pointless since they can both knock each other out fairly easily. The Sherman's advantages are mainly the ability to get off the first shot more accurately (or if that fails, probably get off two more before the T-34 can get off a second shot).

And by Korea, the Shermans operating there were the 76mm cannon armed "Easy Eights" rather than the 75mm cannon tanks that rolled into North Africa and Europe early on. And certainly not the British Sherman Fireflys. By Korea that roll was firmly in the hands of the M26s and M46s. (The Americans did not have Sherman Fireflys, though they sometimes tried to get some when higher ups kept delaying the M26).
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Old 2012-12-06, 23:21   Link #2430
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This is Senshado!!!

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Old 2012-12-06, 23:46   Link #2431
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
You cannot compare the M4 to T-34 in terms of armour. And weapon-wise, T-34/85 was produced in much greater numbers than Firefly. The common Sherman cannot compare to the T-34/85 which was also fielded in increasing numbers towards the end of the war
I'd never count the Firefly into any discussion about design since it was meant to purely be a stopgap measure. The British outright stopped converting them after they started fielding Comets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera View Post
One thing that endears me about the Sherman is all the variants from D-Day and on; Hobart's Funnies.

Seeing 1 single tank type being made to do SO many different things besides fighting other tanks is just so cool to see.
Churchills should get a lot of love for that as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless Knackwurst View Post
I'm surprised it took four days for a reference to The A-Team, what with the heroes seemingly trapped inside a building that may or may not be filled with welding equipment, sheet metal, air compressors, cabbages, a wrecked car or two...

Alternatively, they convert all of the tanks into one mecha and walk out.
But with the A-Team shooting, it's like everyone is Momo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak View Post
Superior system in terms of reliability, materials and soft equipment such as availability of radios, increased space & overall better visuals/optics made Sherman a better machine. Many T-34 battalions lacked cohesion and effective communication, thus contributing significantly to a great number of them being lost on the field.

As for production numbers, the Sherman series were produced in comparable numbers to the T-34, and the United States only started producing Shermans in 1942, or two years after Operation Barbarossa, where T-34s were already in service.

But I wasn't comparing armor. I was comparing accessories, reliability and superiority of materials. The T-34 was not as reliable as people thought it was. Many were rushed productions, and lacked the quality control of the M4 series.
Most of the problems you brought up were improved when the Soviets moved to the T-34/85. For example, all of them got radios. Quality control was a weak point, but there were plenty of well made units. While the Sherman had better creature comforts, the T-34/85 had superior speed and greater range. The Soviets used both tanks in Manchuria, and both performed very well. However, the reason why they managed to maintain their combat tempo so well was because the T-34/85s were still on the road after the the Shermans ran low on fuel.

Generally, the two tanks are fairly even, with T-34s working better for Soviet operational doctrine, and Shermans working better for American tactical doctrine. Which you'd prefer is going to depend on which doctrine you think is better.
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Old 2012-12-06, 23:51   Link #2432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aldw View Post
The Korean War performance between HVSS Shermans and T-34/85's is very telling on how good the Sherman really is despite all the misinformed treatments about its capabilities.
Performance in combat is down to plenty of factors beyond just the tank. Crew quality and tactical doctrine also contribute a lot. Also, UN did not really get a clear edge in armour until the Pershing arrived.


Also about T-34 series being for winning by steel wave tactics....it's not just about numbers. T-34 is meant for mangling the operational and strategic rear by speed and mobile encirclements. It isn't like ocean waves smashing on cliffs. More like bypassing the strongest defences, leave them to die on the vine while all around vast swathes of territory fall into Soviet control.
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Old 2012-12-06, 23:54   Link #2433
Ithekro
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80s era American televisions... The heroes always hit the vehicles and no one was hurt (badly at least)...They just never hit people with guns. But they would always blow up or flip over the enemy's cars and trucks, if not crush them after the enemy jumped out at the last second.

That or snipe a lock at 60 mph from the side window of a car on short notice.


Momo must be a spy for the Black Forest, since she's not up to 80's TV standards of hero accuracy.
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Old 2012-12-07, 00:22   Link #2434
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Originally Posted by sandhy88 View Post
Spoilers
Spoiler for eps 9
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
OOH that Miho on tank so cool , can't wait for next episode .

Katyusha must be livid, seeing as Miho is far far taller ( higher?;p) now EHEHE
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Old 2012-12-07, 00:38   Link #2435
Chiaki_chan
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In any case if Oarai wins against Pravda they will face the team Maho ... I can not wait to see if it happens ... and I know it will not happen but if only one can see Maho smile even a little smile to Miho
x"D
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Old 2012-12-07, 00:52   Link #2436
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Originally Posted by Znail View Post
That is so weird. Wouldn't that also involve the Tchaikovsky background music as well then? Or is is simply the number of years he have been dead compared to the mere few decades for the authors of Katyusha? It's also a bit amusing with US being the only country where this specific copyright is enforced.
Copyright governing classical music that is more than 100 years is bit different, for variety of reasons. While you can't simply copy a published music score, nor use a recorded music performance without appropriate credit and payment, you are free to perform it and use your performance if you bought official licensed music scores or made your own by listening to it and writing the whole thing down.
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Old 2012-12-07, 01:06   Link #2437
Ithekro
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"Katyusha" is 74 years old. Almost 75 years old. I think there is a copyright limit somewhere around that point. If it is 75, Crunchroll might have issues with it, but by the time it gets a US BD release, the issue should be gone regardless of who own the copyright.
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Old 2012-12-07, 01:59   Link #2438
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
"Katyusha" is 74 years old. Almost 75 years old. I think there is a copyright limit somewhere around that point. If it is 75, Crunchroll might have issues with it, but by the time it gets a US BD release, the issue should be gone regardless of who own the copyright.
I doubt there will be any US BD
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Old 2012-12-07, 02:10   Link #2439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Spoiler for spoiler pictures:
You mean StuG. It holds a meaning - Sturmgeschutz or something like that - but I wouldn't be surprised if they repair it. It's both an important vehicle (along with the Panzer IV) due to it's gun, and as far as tanks go, suffered the lightest damage (While the jammed turret ring might be able to be repaired, it would probably be fragile enough that it would be too much trouble. The fact that it jammed facing straight forwards would help the PzIV actually act as a TD, albeit an overly tall and awkward one.

A damaged track, though, could actually be repaired fairly quickly all things considered. I just feel sorry for the team they send out to retrieve the lost tread.
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Old 2012-12-07, 02:14   Link #2440
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Spoilers
Spoiler for eps 9
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
Just when you think girls und panzer cannot get any better......i am starting to get worried that all of us will pass out on the finale of girls und panzer due to too much epicness.
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