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Old 2012-12-07, 07:27   Link #11321
ccie20012
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Quote:
Zen is the worst male lead character
Zen is main support character for Medaka.
It's Medaka Box. Keyword: Medaka. Not Zenkichi Box or Kumagawa Box ... or etc.
Without Zen this manga in general would not make sense.
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Old 2012-12-07, 07:36   Link #11322
K. Shiruto
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Hey Zen haters, here, a cookie for you.

You're starting to become irritating with your irrational hatred towards the character

As the guy above me says, without him half of the developments that took place wouldn't make any sense. Oh, and I see there's still someone who still says Zen almost made the manga get canned. About this I only have one answer: HA-HA-HA-HA!!! Seriously, stop with this already, it's ridiculous to say the least.
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Old 2012-12-07, 08:42   Link #11323
Sol Falling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccie20012 View Post
Zen is main support character for Medaka.
It's Medaka Box. Keyword: Medaka. Not Zenkichi Box or Kumagawa Box ... or etc.
Without Zen this manga in general would not make sense.
Haha. Zen is the main support for the worst parts of Medaka, though. Although the story makes sense to read, Zenkichi is responsible for the super inhumanly idealistic parts of Medaka which made her character at the beginning of the story so fake and annoying.


(This is actually a problem I have been thinking about. Looking at the anime sales, I wonder if it's actually impossible to make Medaka Box more popular than it is currently. Basically, at the start of the story it is just too impossible to make people like Medaka. Zenkichi too, is an unappealing character except for the male self-insert audience. As extremely subtle parodies of over-idealistic shounen characters, for a long time Medaka and Zenkichi are just too cliche and boring as characters.)

As you guys say, it's required for Medaka and Zenkichi to be the way they are in order for the story to make sense. However, in that case, that means it's impossible to create a version of Medaka Box which has a beginning most people will find smart, enjoyable or interesting.


I will clarify that my personal opinion is not that Zenkichi is a bad or uninteresting character. He has thematic potential in the hands of Nishio, to show what a "normal" person can properly accomplish. However, I do think he has been a very flawed character from the beginning in need of substantial character growth; and disapprove of the self-insert aspect of him, which leads many readers to latch onto delusional escapist fantasies. Also, as a result, I would agree with other posters that Zenkichi does not offer much pure entertainment value.

As for the upcoming chapter, I would not say there is any reason at all to hate on Zenkichi; however, for me there is admittedly an element of schadenfreude whenever I see the story shit on that said self-insert audience.
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Last edited by Sol Falling; 2012-12-07 at 08:53.
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Old 2012-12-07, 08:43   Link #11324
konart
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Turn your imagination on and voila! Kumagawa is the lead male character for you.
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Old 2012-12-07, 09:31   Link #11325
noobita
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccie20012 View Post
Zen is main support character for Medaka.
It's Medaka Box. Keyword: Medaka. Not Zenkichi Box or Kumagawa Box ... or etc.
Without Zen this manga in general would not make sense.
You got it backward. Without Zenkichi, the manga will be above average. With Kumagawa as male lead, this manga will be epic and can easily get ranked in top 5 every week.
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Old 2012-12-07, 09:50   Link #11326
Westlo
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lol @ the if Zen wasn't around nothing would make sense, like they would keep the exact same plot or something lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo View Post
Oh, and I see there's still someone who still says Zen almost made the manga get canned. About this I only have one answer: HA-HA-HA-HA!!! Seriously, stop with this already, it's ridiculous to say the least.
The manga dropped off in popularity after Zen took a more prominent role, as the AS Zen fanboys where raising their pompoms in glee, Medakas TOC rankings were plummeting and manga sales where stagnant. None of this is opinion, it's a fact, if you disagree show me how the TOC ratings improved! Show me how the manga sales increased? But you can't because they didn't. You didn't notice the amount of votes in the popularity polls? 1st one was 4807, 2nd taken @ the around the peak of Medaka Box was 14154 and the latest one slipped down to 11553.

The anime is a flop, manga sales stuck, TOC ranking one of the worst, popularity poll numbers down, it's only a matter of time before this and Kurogane are kicked to the curb. If we're lucky we get enough time for Nisio to give us a good conclusion... if not well maybe some Jump NEXT specials like Mago got... If you were Jump why would you keep either series and miss out on potentially the next Assassination Classroom? (Biggest new Jump hit since Death Note hands down) Bigger series have been cut for less...
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Old 2012-12-07, 09:56   Link #11327
Kurosu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
lol @ the if Zen wasn't around nothing would make sense, like they would keep the exact same plot or something lol.



The manga dropped off in popularity after Zen took a more prominent role, as the AS Zen fanboys where raising their pompoms in glee, Medakas TOC rankings were plummeting and manga sales where stagnant. None of this is opinion, it's a fact, if you disagree show me how the TOC ratings improved! Show me how the manga sales increased? But you can't because they didn't. You didn't notice the amount of votes in the popularity polls? 1st one was 4807, 2nd taken @ the around the peak of Medaka Box was 14154 and the latest one slipped down to 11553.

The anime is a flop, manga sales stuck, TOC ranking one of the worst, popularity poll numbers down, it's only a matter of time before this and Kurogane are kicked to the curb. If we're lucky we get enough time for Nisio to give us a good conclusion... if not well maybe some Jump NEXT specials like Mago got... If you were Jump why would you keep either series and miss out on potentially the next Assassination Classroom? (Biggest new Jump hit since Death Note hands down) Bigger series have been cut for less...
Hasn't that been the story for about a year now? Personally I think the story is coming to an end anyways, most of the hanging plot points are being tackled and they're already reaching the spectrum of powerful enemies to face. I say, the only probable thing that they have left is the base on the moon, and other than that I do think it should reach a conclusion in one or two years.

But I do think your argument is a little silly, just because they have another hit on their hands, it doesn't mean they're going to jump the gun on certain series just to get new ones in.
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Old 2012-12-07, 09:59   Link #11328
Randrak42
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Everyone's entitled to their opinions about each character but I see no point in bashing the character you don't like nearly every post you make. We get it, you like Kumagawa and not Zen...but there are others that may feel differently.
Praising a character you like is fine even if it is every post you make, nobody's gonna be offended or annoyed when you say good things about a character you like. But on the other hand constantly bashing on a character you don't like and others might just becomes incredibly irritating and annoying.

I hate Uchiha Sasuke from Naruto...I have what people might call an irrational hatred for that character and I have been known to bash the character once or twice in the Naruto threads but those are rare cases and far inbetween...usually only when the character does something just too outrageous or annoying but more often than not I just let it go and talk about the rest of the chapters/plots.

Some of you seem to have a personal vendetta on displaying just how bad or useless of a character Zenkichi is...we get it already, you don't like him and believe him to be an unnecessary and/or boring element to the plot...but then people are just going to fight you over it and an useless discussion will break out that will lead nowhere as they always end the same way, each party retaining the same opinion they had at the start.

I'm not asking people to stop bashing Zenkichi or any other character and I'm not trying to "convert" anyone...all I'm asking is for people to tone it down a bit. It's just basic manners toward your fellow members, you're doing something unnecessary and annoy to other people and it wouldn't kill you to hold back on it for a while.
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Old 2012-12-07, 10:16   Link #11329
ShiroiRyu
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Shiranui fighting ?!
Oh man, i wanted that so much !
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Old 2012-12-07, 10:29   Link #11330
Randrak42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiroiRyu View Post
Shiranui fighting ?!
Oh man, i wanted that so much !
Actually I'm pretty curious about what her Real Eater really does. We know she can somehow swap other people's powers or something along those lines but aside from that there isn't much to go on.

Then again she WAS Medaka's shadow so...Medaka's skill is to copy other skills so maybe she can steal other people's skills (and give them away as she wishes) which could mean she has a lot of skills at her disposal.
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Old 2012-12-07, 11:13   Link #11331
Kaisos Erranon
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JESUS CHRIST THIS CHAPTER WHAT
JUST OUT OF NOWHERE
WHAT THE HELL
Also, uh, "I forgot to return you evil for good?" What?
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Old 2012-12-07, 11:15   Link #11332
Last Carpet
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Zen is gone....and as much as I like him.......I'm glad he's gone.

Hear me out

I think Misogi once said that he can't undo something that he's undone with All Fiction. So if there's any chance of Zen's return, something tells me he won't be the same. this could just be another test to Medaka.

Imagine a Zen who isn't obsessed with her
A normal Zen who's life doesn't revolve around her.

Of course, should this happen Medaka would probably find some way to put herself into his life.

Maybe I'm just over thinking this, but one things for sure.

Medaka is gonna kick Misogi's ass when she finds out
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Old 2012-12-07, 11:17   Link #11333
Clarste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
JESUS CHRIST THIS CHAPTER WHAT
JUST OUT OF NOWHERE
WHAT THE HELL
Also, uh, "I forgot to return you evil for good?" What?
No good deed goes unpunished.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Carpet View Post
I think Misogi once said that he can't undo something that he's undone with All Fiction. So if there's any chance of Zen's return, something tells me he won't be the same. this could just be another test to Medaka.
He can't undo it with All Fiction, but who knows what April Fiction does? Or he could even be relying on someone else to undo it. Perhaps a style that we've seen can undo unhealable injuries...? I mean, Kumagawa would never admit to actually forming a plan, but that's the kind of thing I can see happening. I kind of hope Zen stays dead though, just for the drama.
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Old 2012-12-07, 11:24   Link #11334
Randrak42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Carpet View Post
Zen is gone....and as much as I like him.......I'm glad he's gone.

Hear me out

I think Misogi once said that he can't undo something that he's undone with All Fiction. So if there's any chance of Zen's return, something tells me he won't be the same. this could just be another test to Medaka.

Imagine a Zen who isn't obsessed with her
A normal Zen who's life doesn't revolve around her.

Of course, should this happen Medaka would probably find some way to put herself into his life.

Maybe I'm just over thinking this, but one things for sure.

Medaka is gonna kick Misogi's ass when she finds out
Actually...I'm betting this new April Fiction (the April part most likely coming from April Fools) ramps up Kumagawa's troll levels to the 11th power and allows him to make things disappear from existence temporarily so he can either make it so something never existed or just delete that existence for a period of time. Like putting a file in the trash bin, you can recover it later if you want or just delete it permanently.

This is all, of course, speculation.
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Old 2012-12-07, 11:25   Link #11335
Fenrir_valindri
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Except All Fiction very likely isn't the same after what happened to Kumagawa with the Hundred Gauntlets, not to mention April Fiction is very likely something similar but completely different.
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Old 2012-12-07, 11:32   Link #11336
Kaisos Erranon
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Also, "I hate lies" coming from a compulsive liar whose primary skill has a reading that essentially means something like "Lying Devil" is pretty ironic, I gotta say.
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Old 2012-12-07, 11:51   Link #11337
kenjtr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Carpet View Post
Zen is gone....and as much as I like him.......I'm glad he's gone.

Hear me out

I think Misogi once said that he can't undo something that he's undone with All Fiction. So if there's any chance of Zen's return, something tells me he won't be the same. this could just be another test to Medaka.

Imagine a Zen who isn't obsessed with her
A normal Zen who's life doesn't revolve around her.

Of course, should this happen Medaka would probably find some way to put herself into his life.

Maybe I'm just over thinking this, but one things for sure.

Medaka is gonna kick Misogi's ass when she finds out
I actually liked that idea since in zenkichis life medakas influence is so strong and medaka didnt actually do something to earn zenkichis love while zenkichi one sided suffered alone . I want medaka to do something worth if she wants zenkichis love also i really want to see how would zenkichis life be without medaka .
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Old 2012-12-07, 12:40   Link #11338
lolzorz
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Am I slow, or did anybody notice that the kanij on Kakegae's tongue actually changed? Previously the kanji was 喩, or metaphor, but it changed to 嘘 (lie or falsehood) when she was taunting Medaka.
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Old 2012-12-07, 12:43   Link #11339
chidorimen
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First off loved the chapter.

Second what is it about medaka box that compels its readers to get into conversations that border on philosophical?
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Old 2012-12-07, 12:45   Link #11340
Clarste
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Originally Posted by chidorimen View Post
Second what is it about medaka box that compels its readers to get into conversations that border on philosophical?
The fact that the characters do?
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