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View Poll Results: Chuunibyou Demo Koi ga Shitai! - Episode 10 Rating
Perfect 10 40 40.00%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 38 38.00%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 15 15.00%
7 out of 10 : Good 7 7.00%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 100. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2012-12-07, 11:18   Link #81
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredFriendly View Post
Okay, one last post about Yuuta's behavior toward Rikka at the end of the episode.

I find it amusing that so many people here insist that Rikka needs to give up her chuuni behavior, yet Yuuta, himself, reverts to his own chuuni behavior when he can't find a "normal" way to deal with his own emotions. He even goes so far as to prepare, in advance, a Dark Flame Master confession, which he actually delivers. Curious behavior for someone who has supposedly left that all behind, and then, shortly afterwards, insists that Rikka give up her chuuni-isms.

And why wasn't Yuuta upset with Rikka's mom, instead of taking it all out on Rikka? Wouldn't he be pissed at his own mom if she ran away? It's the first time he's met her, and she won't even try to give the bento to Rikka herself. Shouldn't he have tried to convince her to do so? I am so disappointed in his behavior.
You are distording the facts in a weird way: Yuuta never used his DFM mode when he can't express himself: he learned that some points flow towards Rikka better this way. Hell, the math lesson scene was a huge evidence of that: instead of preaching however math is important, he actually approach Rikka from a perspective that attract her interest, which is some chuuni parts.

Yuuta didn't entirely relinquish his chuuni exactly because he uses it as a bridge with Rikka, and felt that it wasn't so bad, as long as it keeps it in check. That doesn't mean he can't express himself at all without that. There is no such evidence of it.

And there is a major difference between Yuuta and Rikka's chuunibyou: Yuuta actually uses it very rarely and only when it is required. However, Rikka keeps her chuuni approximately...99% of the time, and to a more disruptive degree (her actions towards clubs staff who were trying to recruit people pretty much confirms she has no problem to act chuuni, both in speech AND acts with complete stranger).
So dropping the chuuni act is much more important for Rikka's case.
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Although I agree in principle, there are a couple of questionables. For one, who says Touka was never affected by chuuni-ism? My theory is, like Yuuta, she abhores Rikka's chuuni behavior because she's been there, done that. Her wielding that soup ladle and those fight scenes seem to indicate, at the very least, abnormal behavior (normal people do not go around whacking their little sisters, and her friends, with a large soup ladle). Actually engaging in a fight with her little sister seems to me that she, like Yuuta, still hasn't given up all of her chuuni-ness.
That's the opposite: it demonstrates that Touka tried conventional means, and had to get along with Rikka's chuuni. Remember that she is actually considered as Rikka's -enemy- in the latter's chuuni setup, and she probably needs to keep her in touch in a way that could at least focus Rikka's attention.
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Which problem of Rikka's are you talking about? Her chuuni behavior? Her reluctance to acknowledge her father's death? Her reluctance to speak with her mom? I don't really see any of these as a severe problem.
Chuunibyou isn't all fluff and fun at all past a certain degree, time and people affected by it. In society, even moreso in Japan, such behaviour being present all the time is nothing more than a nuisance: I challenge you playing DFM in a department store, going full force with delusional like speech and assaulting bystanders etc, and you will definitely get some issue with people rather shortly.
Really, to act like a oddball like Rikka is absolutely abnormal and unlikely to attract sympathy from those who don't know her, and her actual comfort zone is extremely narrow: her relatives, Yuuta and the other club members. That's it.

Her inability to acknowledge her father's death is a major issue: those who can't get over such fact are often seen falling in depression or using substitution and whatnot that will hurt them sooner or later. It also severely affects their relatives, who are sensible to that as well.
Her inability to speak with her mother stems from both issues above.

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Why do people seem to think that Rikka will never be able to grow out of her chuuni behavior on her own? What's the rush?
That's because it has been 2 years she in such state, and there is no indication she is growing out of it, especially she is in high school right now. And acting like that in high school is not healthy at all, since this period is important for teenagers as they are in the grey area between childhood and adulthood. And if she can't get over it soon while Touka leaves, it will not only keep a giant rift between her and their mother, but it will definitely not go any better.
Worse: since the "priestess of the investigation bureau" will be absent for a while, are we certain that Rikka won't choose someone else as a substitute to act as her enemy? Rikka's setup is a classic "dark (anti)hero who fights darkness with dark power, often against humans from a shadowy organization", so it is unlikely for her to stick with her setup without someone taking the role Touka had.
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Same with her dad. Grieving for a loved one isn't set to a schedule. To each, their own, as the saying goes. Everyone grieves in their own way, and some will grieve for a much longer time than others.
The problem is that her chuuni is the very catalyst of keeping her grief regarding her father live all the frigging time. Whereas people can be bereaving their relative for a while, you -don't- want to keep such catalyst around, ever. That would lead to a terrible opposite effect.


Really, Rikka's chuunibyou is the main enjoyment of this show, but it is time to realize that it is absolutely not healthy, and even more troublesome in a rigid society like in Japan.
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Old 2012-12-07, 11:23   Link #82
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Originally Posted by vaden View Post
Of all the things to inspire a hail of moralistic condemnation, we have Touka trying to balance her professional life with her family situation, Rikka's mother reaching out after years of estrangement, and a contextless ten-second flashback. We're trying to cast villains in this complex tangle? Are you kidding me? That's not just jumping to conclusions; it's strapping on a jetpack and flying out to greet them.
That's what I'm thinking as well. Some people seem to be disagreeing with what certain characters are doing, how they should handle things better. They're too focused on the actions and not on the dialogue.
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Old 2012-12-07, 19:02   Link #83
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I think that some people are missing what caused Yuuta to take action at the end of the episode.

When Touka talked to him he took Rikka's side all the way.Thinking that Rikka would work her way out of it herself given time.But what Touka told him about her mother and then him seeing her for himself made him have to face the fact that Rikka was tearing her family apart.He may not have gone about it the best way but something had to be done.
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Old 2012-12-07, 20:31   Link #84
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I think that some people are missing what caused Yuuta to take action at the end of the episode.

When Touka talked to him he took Rikka's side all the way.Thinking that Rikka would work her way out of it herself given time.But what Touka told him about her mother and then him seeing her for himself made him have to face the fact that Rikka was tearing her family apart.He may not have gone about it the best way but something had to be done.
I just don't get why all you people think Rikka is "tearing her family apart." As far as I know, Rikka is the youngest member of her family. All of the other members are supposedly adults. You all are acting like she's some kind of Demon Child that is hell-bent on wrecking havoc within her family. The adult members of her family should act like adults.

The only one I see who is responsible for "tearing her family apart" is her mom. If you all think Rikka should grow up, shouldn't you all also think that her mom ought to grow up and take responsibility for her actions, as well?

Frankly, Yuuta had no business butting into someone else's family affairs. Touka should never have asked him to do so. She should have shouldered her own responsibilities, instead of passing them off onto someone who is not part of the family.

But this isn't reality, and Yuuta wouldn't be the hero of the day if things were portrayed more realistically.
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Old 2012-12-07, 21:01   Link #85
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Originally Posted by FredFriendly View Post
I just don't get why all you people think Rikka is "tearing her family apart." As far as I know, Rikka is the youngest member of her family. All of the other members are supposedly adults. You all are acting like she's some kind of Demon Child that is hell-bent on wrecking havoc within her family. The adult members of her family should act like adults.
It looks like you really miss the point completely: what kind of relative will stand a girl like Rikka to stay on such sloppy trend as chuunibyou?
I hardly see any parent, sibling and whatnot to leave someone they care for to stick with such behaviour: again, it is not healthy, and will be extremely detrimental to her sooner or later.
Also, such behaviour is also a "scar" due to Rikka's father.
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The only one I see who is responsible for "tearing her family apart" is her mom. If you all think Rikka should grow up, shouldn't you all also think that her mom ought to grow up and take responsibility for her actions, as well?
You are quick to judge without all information at hand: so far, there is absolutely no indication she outright abandonned them. No one is completely perfect and not all parents would be able to confront their child in such state. If they aren't, instead of being persistent and fail in their attempt, baton passing is a viable solution, so long it was within the intention of the said individual to do their best for such child.

Also, remember that she -really- thinks Rikka hates her for not telling beforehand about her dad's weak health. So instead of spilling oil to the flames, it isn't surprising to expect her to not show herself in front of her. It is a common occurence, that isn't always wrong.
Quote:
Frankly, Yuuta had no business butting into someone else's family affairs. Touka should never have asked him to do so. She should have shouldered her own responsibilities, instead of passing them off onto someone who is not part of the family.

But this isn't reality, and Yuuta wouldn't be the hero of the day if things were portrayed more realistically.
Except that with such reasoning, you would never ask council with professionals etc either "because they have no business butting into someone else family affair".
Yuuta was -asked- to do so, and Touka's reasons are valid and reasonable: as of now, Yuuta is the closest person for Rikka, and he is the only one she actually listens to (again, several scenes indicated how Touka noticed how Yuuta and Rikka relationship grew extremely close).

Also, it isn't only a family matter, as Yuuta -is- Rikka's boyfriend. Heck, even as a friend, he has the right to intervene should something out of hand is occuring right in front of him. Even he surely wasn't that bothered by Rikka's chuuni, he knows full well that Rikka has to get over it, otherwise it will never end, and with Touka leaving soon, shit will hit the fan if Rikka meets her mother in such state.
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Old 2012-12-07, 21:15   Link #86
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
It looks like you really miss the point completely...
No, you seem to be completely missing my points. But, frankly, I can't be bothered to otherwise respond. It would be a waste of my time since you never agree with anything I say, regardless of what I say. I could say that the sky was blue and you would say no, it's cyan. Why waste my breath?
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Old 2012-12-07, 21:22   Link #87
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I surely cannot comprehend them, while you paint Yuuta, Touka etc in such way with basis that hardly make sense within the series actual setup. Reading again your posts, there is only one statement that keep going: "why the rush"?
Again the point was pretty clear from the very premise of the show: however fun chuunibyou can be, it is a behaviour that is not acceptable should it goes past private activities to a certain degree, and the Takanashi family backstory supplement how this behaviour is hardly what Rikka essentially was, and will lead to a disastrous result.

So repeating ad nauseam such points, and expecting people to understand your reasoning whereas you apply a contradicting "reality" statement (as you certainly don't get why Touka and Yuuta are that concerned by Rikka's chuuni, and still say it isn't reality) surely looks more like you claim the sky is green to me, but heh.
I certainly don't expect you to like Touka and Yuuta's methods, since it is your opinion and perspective. But to ignore the facts, setting and actual themes behind the show is actually what warrants such answers.
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Old 2012-12-07, 22:35   Link #88
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RUSH > but isn't that the point exactly? now on this part.

as iv'e stated before, being forceful and aggressive is hardly the recommended approach against psychological conditions. (makes you think back to the days of shock therapy, barbaric times indeed...). More often than not such an approach would only lead to aggravation or additional different problems altogether. The best approach should be Constancy, Firm but not forceful, which is pretty much what Yuuta DID NOT DO this episode. YES IT WILL TAKE TIME. so on this
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
That's because it has been 2 years she in such state, and there is no indication she is growing out of it, especially she is in high school right now.....
you're kidding me? they're crying to high heaven's because of that relatively short time, and so ready to pass the responsibility to yuuta? think trauma would go away just like that? man, people have been taking care of special kids for decades, even those in comas , those with severe injuries. Have they never thought of doing anything else, to try harder? have they even had a chance to try everything they can in just 2 years?? is that the extent of their care and love??
IN fact in some ways Rikka is already starting to heal due to her REGULAR interactions with Yuuta an the club members. so why the need to be SUDDEN & FORCEFUL about it? and what about being in High School? there a far worse offenders and delinquents in High School than Rikka would ever be. even in real life.

Which of course relates to 2 things. the WHY? META reasoning is of course the show is ending. And Rehab isn't exactly an exciting thing to show in anime >.<. they needed to finish this fast. IN-universe, the only change is Touka's leaving. I'm not belittling that, in fact that is a life changing decision (but this is mostly for her personal career advancement). I understand that, but then she needs to contrast that on what is good for her little sister. well i don't envy her situation. But hoping Yuuta would come up with a miracle just so that she could bypass that decision is....
of course this being ANIME, we know that is most probably what would happen. unfortunately it kinda cheapens everything. asspull for the hero, who miraculously saves the girl. curing her of chunibyou IN NO TIME AT ALL! hence my nagging irritation for the second part. hope they do it some other way though. which i feel would make the show better.

well I'm not one of those who would just condemn Yuuta (him being a kid) or Touka (as the show implies she is doing it out of concern, but in no world would I condone hitting a child with a Ladle in that way, even though it has been played for laughs) or even the mother (as much as we don't now yet the full story behind her apart from 2nd hand sources, but it is true that in a way she did abandon her kid), I understand that we shouldn't be too harsh on them especially since THIS IS A DIFFICULT situation. I understand completely, i've been on that position (and far far more than 2 years) and yet "passing the buck" isn't exactly an admirable action on their part, MORE SO THE MOTHER.

Last edited by garbage; 2012-12-08 at 00:08.
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Old 2012-12-08, 03:42   Link #89
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I just don't get why all you people think Rikka is "tearing her family apart." As far as I know, Rikka is the youngest member of her family. All of the other members are supposedly adults. You all are acting like she's some kind of Demon Child that is hell-bent on wrecking havoc within her family. The adult members of her family should act like adults.

The only one I see who is responsible for "tearing her family apart" is her mom. If you all think Rikka should grow up, shouldn't you all also think that her mom ought to grow up and take responsibility for her actions, as well?

Frankly, Yuuta had no business butting into someone else's family affairs. Touka should never have asked him to do so. She should have shouldered her own responsibilities, instead of passing them off onto someone who is not part of the family.

But this isn't reality, and Yuuta wouldn't be the hero of the day if things were portrayed more realistically.
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Originally Posted by FredFriendly View Post
I find it amusing that so many people here insist that Rikka needs to give up her chuuni behavior, yet Yuuta, himself, reverts to his own chuuni behavior when he can't find a "normal" way to deal with his own emotions. He even goes so far as to prepare, in advance, a Dark Flame Master confession, which he actually delivers. Curious behavior for someone who has supposedly left that all behind, and then, shortly afterwards, insists that Rikka give up her chuuni-isms.

And why wasn't Yuuta upset with Rikka's mom, instead of taking it all out on Rikka? Wouldn't he be pissed at his own mom if she ran away? It's the first time he's met her, and she won't even try to give the bento to Rikka herself. Shouldn't he have tried to convince her to do so? I am so disappointed in his behavior.
I seriously don't understand what you are talking about in the 1st paragraph of 2nd quote. The problem here is that Rikka is suffering heavily from eighth-grade syndrome unlike Yuuta. Sure, Yuuta may still revert to his chuuni behavior, but that's because he needs to do that to communicate with Rikka. And Yuuta has already realized that his chuuni behavior is stupid; he's reluctant to do it, man. Rikka is using chuunibyou to escape from reality. Yuuta isn't. If Yuuta can convince Rikka that she shouldn't be using chuunibyou to escape from reality but for fun, then that's a different story. But it's easier said than done.

And as for Rikka's mom, yes, the initial parts of the episodes do give the impression that she left her. But in this episode, when you saw the flashbacks of Rikka's mom's and then her sadness, I can see that Rikka's mom had done everything to try to communicate with her, but Rikka is just too stubborn to do so. But I agree that she shouldn't have left the family and should have at least persisted in solving Rikka's problem.

You sound as if eighth-grade syndrome is easy to deal with when in fact, it is not. Especially when Rikka is doing this to escape from problems and reality, which is certainly an unhealthy thing to do.

But I do agree that "tearing the family apart" is not really the right phrase to use. It's just that she is creating discontent within her family. She is just not accepting reality and no matter what her family members do, she just won't give in.
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Old 2012-12-08, 08:11   Link #90
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Which of course relates to 2 things. the WHY? META reasoning is of course the show is ending. And Rehab isn't exactly an exciting thing to show in anime >.<. they needed to finish this fast. IN-universe, the only change is Touka's leaving. I'm not belittling that, in fact that is a life changing decision (but this is mostly for her personal career advancement). I understand that, but then she needs to contrast that on what is good for her little sister. well i don't envy her situation. But hoping Yuuta would come up with a miracle just so that she could bypass that decision is....
of course this being ANIME, we know that is most probably what would happen. unfortunately it kinda cheapens everything. asspull for the hero, who miraculously saves the girl. curing her of chunibyou IN NO TIME AT ALL! hence my nagging irritation for the second part. hope they do it some other way though. which i feel would make the show better.
I didn't say Rikka should be able to act like Touka within days/weeks/months here. However, she needs to tweek one thing: her chuunibyou which is actually refraining her to go forwards in life, and whereas Touka could handle her behaviour for 2 years, it is actually not possible anymore.

Touka could potentially take action much earlier considering how long it took, but she didn't, so time wasn't an issue... until now. And that's the point: yes it take time for such wounds to heal, moreso for someone who is that young and react so strongly about that. However, whereas they can fix it or not isn't the problem: the problem right now is to take care of the catalyst that enforce such grief and even affects everyone else.
So even if her behaviour isn't fully normal, if she actually can have a transition towards real behaviour (which is slowly happening due to Yuuta), that would be the best.

Yuuta managed to deal with Rikka exactly because he knows how chuunibyou works (explaining how he can "translate" Rikka and acts accordingly), even if his reasons are fairly harmless compared to Rikka's. That being said, I disagree with the fact that Rikka's family didn't do enough: they also grieved Rikka's father death, and also are in grief due to Rikka's behaviour, and unlike other severe psychological case, Rikka is "salvageable" as chuuni is "just" a tendency, not a psychogical impairing disease at all and must perform her chuuni willingly, which is the big factor here: they see their relative in good health, and conscious enough to do things in her way, yet even after talking with her, it just doesn't drive in her skull.
That's also why Touka used a "let's play along" approach and was roaming around with her ladle to get her back home when Rikka is outside: she could potentially fetch her back and use normal physical punishment like what she did during the summer vacation incident, but she didn't so she is trying to approach Rikka within the latter's setup, but that's not working, since she doesn't comprehend it.


The best solution would have been a gradual transition, a bit how Yuuta was doing so far, but right now: they don't have time.
However, please note that I don't see it as an asspull, exactly because their interactions spanned for months: it has been more than 6 months Yuuta and Rikka are together at school, so if Rikka decides to change a bit due to Yuuta, that would be natural, especially if there is an epiphany behind that.
But the main point is that: if she is left unchecked, due the the recent circumstances, it will be really ugly.

That's why this situation is in the absolute grey area: Rikka has reasonable circumstances that lead her to chuunibyou, whereas her family has the responsibility to help her, which involve an education and support that would not impair her future, and this is where her chuunibyou must be dealt with. And if it is, it will decrease her social difficulties by a certain margin (not making it absolutely flawless, but fairly less awkward than with chuuni), but it will be also a good start to get over her father's death.
But right now, her chuunbyou is actually a major problem: it isn't like Rikka won't be able to live normally, but it will isolate her socially sooner or latter (and having Yuuta and a tiny handful of people "tagging along" is not enough) and might lead to issues because of possible incidents due to her chuunbyou (disrupting public order etc). That's the very reason why chuunibyou is a derogative term, as you hardly will see Japanese people having "fun" with people like that.
Hell, I don't think non japanese people will have fun either if they see high schoolers/adults acting like kids with a setup like that, without any clear indication it is a performance or anything: they will point them as completely nuts.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2012-12-08 at 08:38.
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Old 2012-12-08, 08:39   Link #91
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Finally watched episode 10. I'll make it short and briefly
First half was epicly awesome. The insert song was beautiful and a miracle happened in that Dekomori was able to give an actual useful advice/dialogue to Rikka. The scene where Yuuta and Rikka layed in the rain head-to-head in reverse with the umbrella in between was quite nice. The pinky-holding was cute-ish as well.
I would have punched Dekomori if I had been Nibutani in the club room as Deko's (re)action was out of the blue and had nothing to do wit their usual bickering.

@2nd half: No comment as I (to no great surprise) hate such drama in "my" rom-coms. The few bits until this ep. were okay, though .
Nah, one short comment about the Touka and Yuuta dialogue: It was done well because it's one of the rare times when she had such an uhm .. "open"(?) conversation and her deep plea to help Rikka. The short interaction of her with Yumeha would make her a fitting onee-chan .

A very, very quick LN comparions for me: I prefer the way the romance is handled in the anime, but the (so-called) "final drama" seemed lighter thus for me better in the LN. that's if you ignore the other rather large differences.
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Old 2012-12-08, 09:42   Link #92
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
...the problem right now is to take care of the catalyst that enforce such grief and even affects everyone else....
Rikka is the youngest in the family and in fact the biggest victim of that situation. Wouldn't it be more reasonable to expect the ADULTS in the family to better adjust and to be more understanding? No, they just look like rigid, unfeeling individuals unwilling to compromise or understand rikka. They act just like real life people who never understood special people, or kids they so easily term "delinquents", with shame (especially the grandparents), and they try to distance themselves or deny it's very existence. not exactly a healing environment.

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...and also are in grief due to Rikka's behaviour...
and now you're saying rikka is the main cause of their so called "grief" if you ask me those "grief" are nothing more than discomfort, from possible/imaginied public perception than anything else on their part, not exactly a very loving view.

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So even if her behaviour isn't fully normal, if she actually can have a transition towards real behaviour (which is slowly happening due to Yuuta), that would be the best.
exactly!, so why risk jeopardizing this improvement? ( this is more on yuuta's actions, but of course Touka pushed him into that.)

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The best solution would have been a gradual transition, a bit how Yuuta was doing so far, but right now: they don't have time.
However, please note that I don't see it as an asspull, exactly because their interactions spanned for months: it has been more than 6 months Yuuta and Rikka are together at school, so if Rikka decides to change a bit due to Yuuta, that would be natural, especially if there is an epiphany behind that
you would be willing to gamble on that? if this was real life? would you risk the only real connection rikka has ever had for the last few years, risk making DFM another enemy of the Wicked Eye instead of ally and a way to connect her to real life? thereby fully shutting her out and making it worse?on that mere POSSIBLE epiphany. *( but yeah i know this is anime)

For Yuuta and Rikka's relationship well it's debatable but I agree that they do have a good connection, and yeah 6 months is enough to have some kind of good relationship. But the key word/phrase here you said yourself "Rikka decides to change a bit due to Yuuta" DEFINITELY! that would be very natural and in fact heavily foreshadowed and expected. The ass-pull, or rather feels like it's forced is when it's more, far more than that bit....

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But the main point is that: if she is left unchecked, due the the recent circumstances, it will be really ugly
how so? strangely enough their School looks cool enough with them and their club, with even Kumin sleeping in a futon in the middle of the fair! or anywhere for that matter . Dekomori is in fact more of a celebrity than a shunned individual. They are in their 1st yr, so Yuuta has at least 2 1/2 years of this same environment to wean Rikka out of Chuunibyou. (as stated Constancy in the environment is vital to therapy) As I've said before the only change would be Touka. She COULD choose to delay, or not accept that training promotion. YES I know it's a BIG PERSONAL advancement, life decision for her. but it's her career vs rikka. So how much does she love her sister? That's why I don't envy her, her situation. So which one would she sacrifice? hard choices indeed, but that's how real life is most of the time especially if it concerns the one's we love.


PS> she could delay her training/trip enough to "introduce" the mother into the environment, with the help of yuuta of course.


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Originally Posted by garbage View Post
...And Rehab isn't exactly an exciting thing to show in anime >.<.
OH hey! I changed my mind on this one. I feel Rehab CAN be very exciting and an enjoyable watch, wouldn't it be so cute to see how Yuuta could woo Rikka out of her Chuuni? I have confidence Kyoani could pull this off with a good writer. Just like peeling an onion oh ever so slowly and revealing the insides layer by layer {HEY no bad thoughts ok! I know what you guy are thinking ! )

much like 50 First Dates and, It could have been somethin really epic.

oh well any chance of a follow up season anyone?

Last edited by garbage; 2012-12-08 at 10:02. Reason: Additions
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Old 2012-12-08, 13:06   Link #93
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The question is, strip the Chuuni, and what is there Riika's character? I'm very interested in that answer. We know what Nibutani and Yuuta were beyond their Chuuni, and those two are very interesting characters.

Would Rika minus Chuuni be a Rei Clone? A Kuudere?

I felt that Yuuta's best response to Touka should have been a promise to commit himself to efforts to get Rika out of her Chuuni. I agree: Ideally, forcing Rika out of it would not work, she has to be coaxed out of it.

On another front, I think one of the points raised in this anime is that you don't really completely grow out of Chuuni - instead, it manifest itself as more socially acceptable obsessions. In the case of Nibutani, that's Fengshui, and in the case of Yuuta, that's in weaponry.

Ironically, I'd say Rika is lucky. She has one of the best possible support network and circle of friends to help her in finding herself after abandoning Chuunibyou. Dekomori won't have cut it, but Yuuta and Nibutani are probably one of the most suitable of persons to help Rika here.
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Old 2012-12-08, 13:09   Link #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garbage View Post
Rikka is the youngest in the family and in fact the biggest victim of that situation. Wouldn't it be more reasonable to expect the ADULTS in the family to better adjust and to be more understanding? No, they just look like rigid, unfeeling individuals unwilling to compromise or understand rikka. They act just like real life people who never understood special people, or kids they so easily term "delinquents", with shame (especially the grandparents), and they try to distance themselves or deny it's very existence. not exactly a healing environment.
Who say they didn't adjust themselves with her situation? So far, only her grandfather is displaying discontentment towards Rikka's chuuni, to which Rikka hardly even try to talk with.
Her grandmother discard it as a way for Rikka to entertain herself, so it isn't like she judge Rikka, aside of not putting the full scope of the issue.
Touka OTOH is actually her relative that adjust herself the most: so far, she never went went as far as forcing Rikka to cut it out, save 1) when she goes really out of hand (Rikka confronting her due to Chimera) 2) when things should be settled down (confrontation in front of their old house land).
Heck, she even lets Rikka moving out with all of her "treasures" despite japanese appartment are hardly anything spacious, so having so many meaningless trinkets, souvenirs etc would definitely be a bother.
Furthermore, she plays the role of the antagonist Rikka has set in her own chuuni, and still look after her (lunch and so forth). So really, while Touka has difficulty to approach Rikka due to the latter's chuuni, she basically has set all accomodations Rikka would need.

If Rikka can't have a serious talk without the use of chuuni, there is hardly any possible way to have a "better environnement".
Quote:
and now you're saying rikka is the main cause of their so called "grief" if you ask me those "grief" are nothing more than discomfort, from possible/imaginied public perception than anything else on their part, not exactly a very loving view.
You are distording what I stated: it is never fun to see a relative going in such "path" than Rikka's. Past the usual social standing put to shame, it is really concerning to see a relative being out of the reality, moreso when the said person is actually doing it on purpose, unlike real mentally challenged individual.
None of Rikka's family were scolding her or made lectures that she should represent their family appropriately or whatnot. However, her behaviour is surely going to cause her several problems at some point.

Perhaps I was using the wrong word here, but Rikka's current state obviously saddens them as she is the utmost devastated family member after her father's death, but they just can't manage to knock her some sense, so it goes nowhere.
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exactly!, so why risk jeopardizing this improvement? ( this is more on yuuta's actions, but of course Touka pushed him into that.)
Because the situation has changed: Touka will have to leave, and if things are not settled, it will be worse with her mother.
Quote:
you would be willing to gamble on that? if this was real life? would you risk the only real connection rikka has ever had for the last few years, risk making DFM another enemy of the Wicked Eye instead of ally and a way to connect her to real life? thereby fully shutting her out and making it worse?on that mere POSSIBLE epiphany. *( but yeah i know this is anime)
There isn't such thing as gamble here: it is a measure and unlike her relatives, Yuuta is in a position that would allow him to stay by her side, even if they have a fight. It isn't like Yuuta claimed her father is six foot under permanently or whatnot, to which will probably lead to even more issue (hell, Yuuta didn't ask her a flat "stop your chuuni act"). What Yuuta was tasked is to make Rikka facing reality normally (as is, in general, not particularly her father's death even if it is a major point). Aside, Touka didn't asked him to change her right there right now with an absolute 180° change.
Quote:
But the key word/phrase here you said yourself "Rikka decides to change a bit due to Yuuta" DEFINITELY! that would be very natural and in fact heavily foreshadowed and expected. The ass-pull, or rather feels like it's forced is when it's more, far more than that bit....
A single change can lead to drastic progression should a specific discussion/action occurs. It isn't like everything will gradually change: heck, Rikka herself went suddenly chuuni, it isn't like it slowly occured.
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how so? strangely enough their School looks cool enough with them and their club, with even Kumin sleeping in a futon in the middle of the fair! or anywhere for that matter . Dekomori is in fact more of a celebrity than a shunned individual. They are in their 1st yr, so Yuuta has at least 2 1/2 years of this same environment to wean Rikka out of Chuunibyou. (as stated Constancy in the environment is vital to therapy)
And what do we have? So far, Kumin wasn't shown with anyone else than the club members, and she isn't chuuni, but a flat out airhead/my pace character.
Sanae is still in middle school, so her behaviour isn't far from many that would do that, and to her advantage, she has the knack of studies, so she can have people attention in another way.

And remember that while the chuuni antics are mainly set as a comedy, it is vastly less amusing if you consider the situation at hand: Rikka has absolutely -no- friends in her classroom, save the club members, to which are set this way for narrative and premise sake. Also, no one in their right mind would be able to handle indefinitely such antics, and there are obvious reasons why chuunibyou is a derogative term, as the brats with such attitude are just tiring past a certain point.
If you simply remove Yuuta and the rest of the club members in the equation, Rikka would basically be in her own little world, to which was already confirmed (no contact with people except Touka and Sanae).

So really, Rikka's chuuni antics are funny and sad at the same time, because it also reminds everyone who knows her that she keeps clinging on her father's whereabouts.
Quote:
As I've said before the only change would be Touka. She COULD choose to delay, or not accept that training promotion. YES I know it's a BIG PERSONAL advancement, life decision for her. but it's her career vs rikka. So how much does she love her sister? That's why I don't envy her, her situation. So which one would she sacrifice? hard choices indeed, but that's how real life is most of the time especially if it concerns the one's we love.
PS> she could delay her training/trip enough to "introduce" the mother into the environment, with the help of yuuta of course.
Anyone trying to delay such offer would be insane: the world of cuisine is a very busy and business-like one. To let such chance to be delayed for few weeks/months can literally shut down that opportunity. The number of aspiring chefs are huge, and very few can boasts being that successful with training and so forth. It is even moreso true with Japanese people who are stuck with "Japan and the rest of the world" type of mentality and society, which means connections with overseas establishment and whatnot are extremely scarce.

This is also why Touka states she has no real reason to decline (since her relatives -can- take care of Rikka), but yet, she still cares for her sister, hence why she needs Yuuta's help to settle things before she has to leave. If she really didn't care a single bit, she wouldn't even have that talk with Yuuta, nor even take care of Rikka since the latter was with her grandparents before moving out to Touka's appartment.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2012-12-08 at 21:45. Reason: typo
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Old 2012-12-08, 14:47   Link #95
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Somehow EcDonalds doesn't sound as appealing, The Big Ec, Chicken EcNuggets, they don't have the same ring to them.
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Old 2012-12-08, 16:13   Link #96
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Great ep. Need more Shinka. Hope Touka really doesn't leave. Finally no more color contact!
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Old 2012-12-08, 21:22   Link #97
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I recently marathoned up through this episode.

A few points on a few topics...

On Touka: I certainly don't fault Touka for choosing to pursue her culinary dreams instead of continuing to look after Rikka. Touka has been Rikka's primary caregiver for some time now, which is more than what most people do for their siblings. No, I think that Touka has been reasonably caring and concerned towards Rikka. Touka's methods are certainly questionable, but I think her heart is in the right place.

That being said... Touka has no business telling Yuuta that his approach towards Rikka is irresponsible. Yuuta has been much more effective in his approach towards Rikka than Touka has been. Yuuta has given Rikka the one thing she desperately needed: Somebody that truly understands her and accepts her. Yes, Rikka needs to become more normal of a person before she reaches adulthood, but there's no reason it can't be a slow, gradual process rather than the "cold turkey" approach that Touka seems to favor. Touka should be thanking Yuuta for all that he's done for Rikka, not chastising him for supposedly being irresponsible.


On Rikka's Family in general: The above being said, I think it's important to realize what a nightmare situation this is for Rikka's family. Rikka is amusing to us because we're only seeing her in 20-something minute intervals once a week. Her chuunibyou is amusing in such a limited time-frame. But imagine living with such a person; a person with no "off" switch, and hence is in this chuunibyou persona 24/7.

It reminds me of what I sometimes say about Yui Hirasawa, even as someone who likes Yui. Yui is amusing in small bits here and there, but I think that actually living with a person like that would eventually drive me batty. I would imagine that Rikki's family are at their absolute wit's end with her. I'm not writing this to blame Rikki for anything, but just to say that we shouldn't be too harsh on her family.


On the confession scene: I agree with some other viewers here. I liked the twist of the girl being the first one to confess. I also like how it hit just the right balance between "too awkward" and "too smooth".


On Yuuta: I hope we'll eventually learn exactly what he shouted at Rikka. Otherwise, I have to admit I see that as a bit of a copout.

I feel a bit sorry for the guy in that, really, him and Rikka deserved a nice, fun scene of performing in front of the crowds in their chuunibyou personas. I especially feel sorry for Rikka here.


On Rikka's Song: A very nice touch, but yeah, I think this is one time KyoAni should have dropped the ED and allow this moment to last a bit longer.


Overall, an excellent episode. Nice ambiance with the artwork/animation in this episode.

9/10
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Old 2012-12-08, 23:21   Link #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
snip*
I don't think Touka was calling Yuuta out in that scene. I took it more as a statement of her PoV. And it is true that it'd be irresponsible on Touka's part to let Rikka continue to act the way she does. I don't see why you would interpret that scene as her chastising Yuuta when she bows her head to the guy seeking his help. Touka knows full well that Yuuta's methods are more effective than hers when dealing with Rikka.

As for why Yuuta "yelled" at Rikka, Yuuta already gave us his reason. He knew about her family situation etc. Then he got presented with this situation where Rikka's mom comes to him and presents him with STILL WARM bento but Rikka wouldn't acknowledge her. As somebody who cares for Rikka, and as somebody who is more reasonable than her, it was only natural that he would tell Rikka the sensible thing to do after being presented with something like that. It's not like he straight up told her to "grow up" or forced it down her throat with a mean demeanor. He told her to get rid of her eyepatch. The yelling part is more or less going to happen when people who are passionate get into any meaningful debate. It's impossible not to raise your voice a bit when you're dealing with such situation, specially with somebody as stubborn as Rikka. That scene was anything but a copout.
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Old 2012-12-09, 00:36   Link #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Her grandmother discard it as a way for Rikka to entertain herself, so it isn't like she judge Rikka, aside of not putting the full scope of the issue.
Touka OTOH is actually her relative that adjust herself the most: so far, she never went went as far as forcing Rikka to cut it out, save 1) when she goes really out of hand (Rikka confronting her due to Chimera) 2) when things should be settled down (confrontation in front of their old house land).
Heck, she even lets Rikka moving out with all of her "treasures" despite japanese appartment are hardly anything spacious, so having so many meaningless trinkets, souvenirs etc would definitely be a bother.
Furthermore, she plays the role of the antagonist Rikka has set in her own chuuni, and still look after her (lunch and so forth). So really, while Touka has difficulty to approach Rikka due to the latter's chuuni, she basically has set all accomodations Rikka would need
The grandmother may have "accepted" or in your way "discarded" her chuuni, but she remains passive and ends being irrelevant in that case, the grandparents house remains an unwelcome place for Rikka. Touka on the other, wow it's rarer to see her without a ladle than not so much so that it has become part of her character. Seriously have you ever seen her confront, approach,talk to Rikka without that ladle? don't quite remember any honestly, why has she given up trying to talk to her, after a mere 2 years??? just like her mom? All adjustment your talking about, that taking care, bento, apartment, thing of course that's bare minimum in fact is no different from one taking care of a normal kid.
on the bolded part: where was it ever stated that she's playing along with Rikka's chunni. Being the Overseer priestess whatnot might be how Rikka sees her but never was it reflected in Touka's mind. Never has she tried to do anything chuuni, in fact in her words "what good would it do to encourage chuuni" (or something to that effect) Don't see where you ever got the idea she's playing along rikka's chuuni like a role she gladly accepted to get closer. It's all in Rikka's mind.

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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
You are distording what I stated: it is never fun to see a relative going in such "path" than Rikka's. Past the usual social standing put to shame, it is really concerning to see a relative being out of the reality, moreso when the said person is actually doing it on purpose, unlike real mentally challenged individual
of course that's never fun, i never said or implied that they should encourage her chuuni. But what i can see is that they are at this point more concerned with that possible shame, instead of trying to coax Rikka out of it. perhaps, they did but never was it shown in the anime, and definitely 2 years is a short time to just give up. Have you ever seen any "loving"/"caring" scene between the grandparents even Touka with Rikka? The mother was the first caring moment here with her bento, unfortunate she cowed out in the end instead of giving it herself, and why just now?? where were she all this 6 months, of the show?
(well meta issues regarding storytelling, and time constraints might have made this worse, still it stands in my opinion)

on the bolded part, REALLY? when has psychological defense mechanisms ever been a rational "doing it on purpose" kind of thing, especially when it's associated with a heavy trauma like what Rikka suffered. You and I we probably have countless def. mechanisms we don't know about, might be as small as a small tick, or stammering when in pressure situation, usually unknown to the person involved,often just put aside as nothing more than quirks, when not too disruptive. IN FACT defense mechanisms are good in the sense that it is the minds way of coping with possible unbearable pressure, instead of breaking down.

on the point of the suddenness : in yuuta's own thinking and he even stated it to touka, that eye patch is her shield against the world, and what did he do? He flat out commanded her to remove it, out of the blue, in the middle of the freaking fair (can't he have even waited until after, sigh but of course its a plot device), in front of their friends, without prior preparation and hardening, and funnily enough while they were wearing chuuni garb, and set to do a performance, definitely Rikka's into chuuni mode/thinking right there and then. wow way to go 180, that's definitely not A BIT. if you think otherwise then we just have to agree to disagree on this point.

on the point of the High School environment. Plot reasons or not,rikka has friends in Shibutani & Yuuta + dekomori, kumin. My point is 1) she is currently in a stable environment no need to go rushing into things. 2) a lot of people have even less friends, even in real life. and they're not even chuuni mostly just different or introvert. on this note kumin might even be in the same boat , as you said she was never shown with anyone else 3) there definitely are more disruptive & dangerous behavior than rikka's chuuni even in real life, in anime Haru in Tonari no Kaibutsu would be harder for most to approach. for example, and more dangerous to boot. how many people has he hurt already, and twice his girl. again if you think otherwise and feel the change has to right there , then we just have to agree to disagree on this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Anyone trying to delay such offer would be insane: the world of cuisine is a very busy and business-like one. To let such chance to be delayed for few weeks/months can literally shut down that opportunity. The number of aspiring chefs are huge, and very few can boasts being that successful with training and so forth. It is even moreso true with Japanese people who are stuck with "Japan and the rest of the world" type of mentality and society, which means connections with overseas establishment and whatnot are extremely scarce.

This is also why Touka states she has no real reason to decline (since her relatives -can- take care of Rikka), but yet, she still cares for her sister, hence why she needs Yuuta's help to settle things before she has to leave. If she really didn't care a single bit, she wouldn't even have that talk with Yuuta, nor even take care of Rikka since the latter was with her grandparents before moving out to Touka's appartment.
well i don't really see any disagreement here, as I've said it is a HARD DECISION. I definitely understand the gravity of the offer i even bolded "BIG PERSONAL advancement" for her career part. Yet she has choices that she can make. she can stay to provide the current status quo, sacrificing her own career in the process. Barring that, we were never privy to the details of that training offer anyway, is it a one shot, now or never, leave 1 week from now thing or something else, (apprenticeship like in the case of Chiaki in Nodame Cantabile, where it's more like "hey i'll be your master when you get here" thing) there might be compromise possible, again show hasn't been detailed on that part.


Well anyway it's been a nice Chat with you Klashi, i think mostly it's a difference of opinions and probably family viewpoint. we both definitely agree rikka must leave chuuni behind ( or at least the extreme part), it's just a matter of timing thing.
see you next ep

Last edited by garbage; 2012-12-09 at 00:48. Reason: typos
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Old 2012-12-09, 04:44   Link #100
Klashikari
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I will simply take the "agree to disagree" part, although few points will be answered for clarification sake, not reigniting the debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by garbage View Post
on the bolded part: where was it ever stated that she's playing along with Rikka's chunni. Being the Overseer priestess whatnot might be how Rikka sees her but never was it reflected in Touka's mind. Never has she tried to do anything chuuni, in fact in her words "what good would it do to encourage chuuni" (or something to that effect) Don't see where you ever got the idea she's playing along rikka's chuuni like a role she gladly accepted to get closer. It's all in Rikka's mind.
The fact she doesn't see the point of encouraging such behaviour doesn't mean she outirght didn't want to try that first, and it is exactly because her attempts fails that she most likely is dejected by such option.
Now, I believe most scenes with her ladle are actually quite obvious in such pattern: she could always end any of Rikka's chuuni fight on the spot, but generally let her go by her own terms (the most noticeable part is the first fight due to chimera): instead of confronting Rikka with her chuuni and reality like she did in ep8, she tags along. Heck if she was really going not to take part of it and stopping Rikka doing such things, she would have made sure nothing of that kind can be done (removing the calculator, disposing of the rope, Rikka's stuff etc)

This also explains Touka's speech episode 8: having Rikka still acting chuuni even after seeing the harsh truth (old house is gone) made Touka give up the chuuni pretense, uses "conventional physical punishment" and asks Rikka what the latter wants to be finally satified. That is a huge indication her family (at least Touka) tried some compromise, but it didn't work in the end.
Quote:
on the bolded part, REALLY? when has psychological defense mechanisms ever been a rational "doing it on purpose" kind of thing, especially when it's associated with a heavy trauma like what Rikka suffered. You and I we probably have countless def. mechanisms we don't know about, might be as small as a small tick, or stammering when in pressure situation, usually unknown to the person involved,often just put aside as nothing more than quirks, when not too disruptive. IN FACT defense mechanisms are good in the sense that it is the minds way of coping with possible unbearable pressure, instead of breaking down.
There are 2 mechanism behind Rikka's trauma: the first one, inconscious, is the one that made her see "something" on that day, which lead to the Horizon subject.
The second one is the chuunibyou behaviour. The reason why I called the later done on purpose is because too many things require her own will for doing that: she was shown keeping a certain degree of comprehension of the real world, as well as a conscious attempt to stay on her setup (the fact she stopped calling Touka "Priestess" at some point pretty much indicate she isn't entirely chuuni in her head).
Some of her compromises also require her own volition in there: using a calculator as a passcode terminal pretty much shows she knows such thing isn't at her disposal, and to make it seemly working with her setup, she needs something else. This is pretty much comparable to Yuuta DFM scene in the park, and suddenly removing all his chuuni attire when a policeman shows up: even if they are playing hardcore sometimes, they know there is an extent they can't really play out without making compromise or realizing it is outright no possible to do that.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2012-12-09 at 05:03.
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